Brussels Airlines in 2024

[sn26567]

Long haul is still not on the pre Covid level.

From S24 it will even be above the pre-covid level as there will be 10 A330-300 instead of 6 A330-300 and 4 A330-200

Capacity will be above pre-Covid level. That does not mean that passenger numbers will follow the same trend.

[crew1990]

Long haul is still not on the pre Covid level.

From S24 it will even be above the pre-covid level as there will be 10 A330-300 instead of 6 A330-300 and 4 A330-200

Capacity will be above pre-Covid level. That does not mean that passenger numbers will follow the same trend.

Did I say the opposite?

[nordikcam]

When will SN flights start on NBO? Thx

[luchtzak]

When will SN flights start on NBO? Thx

June 2024: https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/luft ... -aircraft/

[brabel]

I read on luchtvaartnieuws:
Lufthansa, Swiss and Austrian to get wifi on board on short haul flights.
Why don't they add SN to this list?

Also, SN seems to have a lot of issues at the start of the new year, strikewise. I hope they can manage all these problems soon. An angry workforce does not make a company better for sure. This is not only with aviation the case.

[A321Lufthansa]

I read on luchtvaartnieuws:
Lufthansa, Swiss and Austrian to get wifi on board on short haul flights.
Why don't they add SN to this list?

Also, SN seems to have a lot of issues at the start of the new year, strikewise. I hope they can manage all these problems soon. An angry workforce does not make a company better for sure. This is not only with aviation the case.

Well, Swiss currently doesn't have it either. Looks like the FlyNet project is gone after 2019. It wasn't installed on any of new narrowbodies, even on A321neos which can easily handle it without modification (on A320neo it is obstructed by new configuration with lavatories in the rear).

[Duke]

I read on luchtvaartnieuws:
Lufthansa, Swiss and Austrian to get wifi on board on short haul flights.
Why don't they add SN to this list?

It would indeed really be a shame that the Brussels Airlines' aircraft wouldn't be included.
Very soon, wifi on board will be considered as a minimal standard service on board all aircraft, especially on longer European routes...
Brussels Airlines tickets on European routes are not cheaper than other airlines of the LH group, so one could expect the same level of service in the whole group.
And the wifi does not necesssarily have to be offered for free, I'm sure that most passengers will accept to pay some extra for it (e.g. € 10,00 for the whole flight)..
Regards,
Duke

[fcw]

And the wifi does not necesssarily have to be offered for free, I'm sure that most passengers will accept to pay some extra for it (e.g. € 10,00 for the whole flight)..

We had this discussion a couple of months ago:

Hard to believe this indeed... installing wifi can't be that difficult or expensive? and passengers are surely willing to pay for this extra service...

As explained wifi equipment is expensive and fuel-consuming, if there would be a possible profit the likes of Ryanair an easyJet would have installed it many years ago.
Suffices to have a look at hotels: years ago wifi was a costly extra only available at top brands and today the smallest hostel is offering it for free.

[Duke]

As explained wifi equipment is expensive and fuel-consuming, if there would be a possible profit the likes of Ryanair an easyJet would have installed it many years ago.
Suffices to have a look at hotels: years ago wifi was a costly extra only available at top brands and today the smallest hostel is offering it for free.

I fully understand this... but why will LH, SR and AU passengers have the chance to use wifi, and not the SN passengers, who pay about the same fares, and flying on the same group? In this way, LH proves that SN is the low-cost part of the group...
Not installing wifi in SN planes will turn passengers away...

[Atlantis]

As explained wifi equipment is expensive and fuel-consuming, if there would be a possible profit the likes of Ryanair an easyJet would have installed it many years ago.
Suffices to have a look at hotels: years ago wifi was a costly extra only available at top brands and today the smallest hostel is offering it for free.

I fully understand this... but why will LH, SR and AU passengers have the chance to use wifi, and not the SN passengers, who pay about the same fares, and flying on the same group? In this way, LH proves that SN is the low-cost part of the group...
Not installing wifi in SN planes will turn passengers away...

It will not turn them away but it's bad brand image. Showing SN as a secondary airline of the group.

In meantime OS is seen better. They are receiving brand new B787 for their long haul ops. SN received a 19 years old A330 from LH.

LH is owning SN now already for many years. SN is/was seen as the African specialist. But how much they grow there? Not much.

Soon there will be only 2 types of aircraft for them. It's limiting your possibilities to grow and to fly further.

You cannot make good profit with limited number of planes.

[Darjeeling]

It will not turn them away but it's bad brand image. Showing SN as a secondary airline of the group.

In meantime OS is seen better. They are receiving brand new B787 for their long haul ops. SN received a 19 years old A330 from LH.

LH is owning SN now already for many years. SN is/was seen as the African specialist. But how much they grow there? Not much.

Soon there will be only 2 types of aircraft for them. It's limiting your possibilities to grow and to fly further.

You cannot make good profit with limited number of planes.

I cannot agree more.
Moreover the social climate is extremely bad at Brussels Airlines. Many employees feel fooled.

[crew1990]

In meantime OS is seen better. They are receiving brand new B787 for their long haul ops. SN received a 19 years old A330 from LH.

Austrian is getting 787 as there are no 767 or 777-200 within the group so as a renewal project, it was necessary and the most logical choice. By the way, within those 10 boeing 787, 5 of them are second hands.

Regarding Brussels Airlines the story is different, SN has always be a A330 flyer. And A330's, there are many within the group. Lufthansa is getting rid of the A330 and and SN is growing? Can't you see the logic here?

The next A330 coming is indeed 19 years old but it was one wich was already under the SN AOC in the past during the Dusseldorf ops. Isn't it logical that this is the next one to join?

Our time will come, there will be a moment that A330 will need to be replaced so it will be A330neo, A350 or 787. (My bet is on 787), but why should we spend million of euros to change something wich is at perfectly fine.

At the moment it will be plain stupid to change of aircraft while those A330's withing the group still have some good years ahead.

Let's the emotion aside and let's think pragmatic and logical please.

[Atlantis]

In meantime OS is seen better. They are receiving brand new B787 for their long haul ops. SN received a 19 years old A330 from LH.

Austrian is getting 787 as there are no 767 or 777-200 within the group so as a renewal project, it was necessary and the most logical choice. By the way, within those 10 boeing 787, 5 of them are second hands.

Regarding Brussels Airlines the story is different, SN has always be a A330 flyer. And A330's, there are many within the group. Lufthansa is getting rid of the A330 and and SN is growing? Can't you see the logic here?

The next A330 coming is indeed 19 years old but it was one wich was already under the SN AOC in the past during the Dusseldorf ops. Isn't it logical that this is the next one to join?

Our time will come, there will be a moment that A330 will need to be replaced so it will be A330neo, A350 or 787. (My bet is on 787), but why should we spend million of euros to change something wich is at perfectly fine.

At the moment it will be plain stupid to change of aircraft while those A330's withing the group still have some good years ahead.

Let's the emotion aside and let's think pragmatic and logical please.

It has nothing to do with emotions. It's how they see SN in the group. SN is rated secondary. Of course you always can accept this, but for how long? Come on, high time to see SN as a valuable part of the group.

But it's not unfortunate. How to make good profit with limited aircraft? You can cut costs as much as you can on people, departments, etc but somehow it has to stop.

The group is making a huge profit, high time to invest decently in SN. Dare to invest and get rid of old planes of the mother.

Three of them are receiving wifi between now and 2 years. Great, SN flying to Africa still without.

Still is no bashing at all but a clear signal to the high management of LH who never liked SN. They bought them to keep the backyard silent. What they spend in SN is peanuts if you compare to the profit.
SN has still only 10 long haul planes, the same as the beginning. Where do you see significant growth? Where do you see much higher number of pax? Where do you see the higher % of market growth at BRU?

Star was not the only alliance.

[oldblueeyes]

So let't try to see the things from the groups prospective as well.

LH took over Austrian in 2008/9. Brussels came half a decade later, including decisions taken as LH was a minority shareholder, on the last meters. As any fleet/financial decision needs time to be absorbed, SN needs to wait longer.

If you want an example : the options for the C-Series / now A223 not taken by LH were intended for SN. The alternative to the decision of the former Belgian CEO would have been today maybe a mix A223/320 or all A223 shorthaul fleet.
I am not saying that this may have been a good or bad decision, but the leases of one bunch of A319 are existing contracts in need to be executed and this affects eg the ratio of new vs older technology, again in good or bad.

On the long haul SN is covering sub Saharan Africa. By any means, these are not premium markets and high yield destinations. In most of the group companies, if flown, such destinations are part of the leisure offering of certain subbrands.

And having said that yes, SN is not a premium brand. It does not offer nor has a planned offering eg for First Class on long haul. It does not fly with 50-60 Business seats in each A333 and so on. That's reality.

And before there are complains here on nice-to-have aircraft, let's recall the reality:
- SN didn#t had the money to start the investment wave as the roll over from 332 to 333 had to be initiated
- at that time mid life aircraft were pre-financed by LH - is it so bad to get 10-12 Y old planes?
- currently these are around 15 Y old - but look around: if you envy LH and Os for the 789, than look om the fact that they would replace 343 and 772/767 having 25-27 Y at the time of replacement

Last but not least, each brand in the group is competing for resources - they deliver a business plan and get available ressources based on the anticipated profits they can deliver. If the winning proposition for SN is to match potential revenue with older aircraft, than this should be the way forward - Delta as industry benchmark demonstrated several times that such a strategy is working for subfleets others were considering out of scope

[oldblueeyes]

SN has still only 10 long haul planes, the same as the beginning. Where do you see significant growth? Where do you see much higher number of pax? Where do you see the higher % of market growth at BRU?

Star was not the only alliance.

Qualiflyer was another one. So good that the high flyers of it ended up as LH subsidiaries.

Where is the problem with the 10 planes of SN?

LH will consolidated ITA - that's already additional nearly 30 aircraft from a group view.

Europe is historically very fragmented thus the consolidation won't satisfy everybody and several smaller airports would need to swallow their pride.

[Atlantis]

If you want an example : the options for the C-Series / now A223 not taken by LH were intended for SN. The alternative to the decision of the former Belgian CEO would have been today maybe a mix A223/320 or all A223 shorthaul fleet.
I am not saying that this may have been a good or bad decision, but the leases of one bunch of A319 are existing contracts in need to be executed and this affects eg the ratio of new vs older technology, again in good or bad.

That would not have been a bad idea. On certain routes the A320 is too big to fill the whole plane. An A223 could be nice on such nich routes. Or you can increase the frequency on certain routes and using the smaller A223 during middle of the day when it's less busy, but still you can fill up the plane.

[Atlantis]

On the long haul SN is covering sub Saharan Africa. By any means, these are not premium markets and high yield destinations. In most of the group companies, if flown, such destinations are part of the leisure offering of certain subbrands.

And having said that yes, SN is not a premium brand. It does not offer nor has a planned offering eg for First Class on long haul. It does not fly with 50-60 Business seats in each A333 and so on. That's reality.

But, business class is doing good on long haul. It was already a good idea to finally introduce the premium economy class.

First class is not needed. Even certain ME carriers are getting rid of it. But to have a bigger, more seats available in Business would bring much more money in. Business class is the milk cow of the plane.

SN is still flying to the US and previous also to Canada. I think they will never abandon these routes and on this way it would be good to have a good product and plane flying it. Why not even in the future some new destinations in The States? Boston, Houston or SF

[Atlantis]

SN has still only 10 long haul planes, the same as the beginning. Where do you see significant growth? Where do you see much higher number of pax? Where do you see the higher % of market growth at BRU?

Star was not the only alliance.

Qualiflyer was another one. So good that the high flyers of it ended up as LH subsidiaries.

Where is the problem with the 10 planes of SN?

LH will consolidated ITA - that's already additional nearly 30 aircraft from a group view.

Europe is historically very fragmented thus the consolidation won't satisfy everybody and several smaller airports would need to swallow their pride.

When you have an issue with one of the long haul, you have a problem. Bcs even you are part of a group, never came a spart plane to SN to help them during that time. It was either to refund or to book the pax to one of their own flights.
During the years, there was no transfer of African destinations to SN, except Nairobi now.

ITA is another story and another mentality of people. When they want something, they will get it, they can be very stubborn. Belgians are more like, ok, we will wait and see. And the time passes by.

[fcw]

Star was not the only alliance.

Qualiflyer was another one. So good that the high flyers of it ended up as LH subsidiaries.

Not at all, Qualiflyer disappeared when Swissair and Sabena went bankrupt 22 years ago!

[oldblueeyes]

Star was not the only alliance.

Qualiflyer was another one. So good that the high flyers of it ended up as LH subsidiaries.

Not at all, Qualiflyer disappeared when Swissair and Sabena went bankrupt 22 years ago!

You didn't got the irony?

The grass is not greener somewhere else.