Legislation on accepting passengers during flight in cockpit

[Erna]

Hello,

Before I make a formal complaint: what is the current legislation in Europe for accepting passengers to stay during the flight in the cockpit?

Is it allowed or not?

Thanks,

Erna

[pressman]

It's allowed , except in england . Some companies may forbid it by SOP but there is no legislation about it . Why would you complain about this ? Did it affect you ? Did the commander make an unsafe decision ? How do you know it wasn't another member of staff ? or an engineer ? or a member of the CAA ? Or the copilots or captains wife / husband / spouse ?

[sean1982]

Or how the media scares passengers like crazy :-s

[tolipanebas]

In Belgium (as well as most other EU countries) it is indeed not forbidden for the captain to invite a non-crew member in the cockpit during flight. It's entirely left at the pilot in command's discretion.

File a formal complaint? With whom? What for? For violating a non-existent law?

[cnc]

a lot of airlines have spies performing daily flights to check crew. atleast we have and the belgian airline my girlfriend works has them too sometimes. best to either ask a crew member or yourself to make a request on paper some time before the flight

[bravomike]

Or because a controller is on an offical service flight

[Erna]

I just don't think it is a wise decision to put someone who has fear of flying in the cockpit.... but that is my personal opinion....

[Comet]

I thought legislation had been introduced after 9/11 banning non crew from entering the flightdeck.

[cathay belgium]

Hi Erna,

Don't know your story but I know a friend of mine followed an fear of flying-course with SN and they were given quite some info around the aircraft in the hangar and during a return flight to Goteborg they we're indeed invited into the cockpit as this was part of the course..

After 9/11 it was never a problem to visit cockpits after the flight, in all those years and after a LOT of questions I only enjoyed 1 -one- jumpseat during the last 10min of landing..

Writing letters before the flight won't help.. just try to be a family member of the crew, yeah ! try that

So it just takes a lot of luck..

As the lessons we're givin' during the flight with a 1 on 1 guidance I don't think there would have been a cause to write about ..

Greezt,

CX-B, still looking for a jumpseat take-off

[Erna]

Don't misunderstand me: I have sat a couple of time in the cockpit myself, and I am in no way jalous about someone who did!!!

I just expect from airlines, who are adamant about safety measures, to make other decisions.... but again, that's my personal opinion.

[pressman]

Been asked many times for a jumpseat by people, probably by many people on this site as well , I always refuse , I would however love to invite people to the flight deck during the flight , but it is because of petty people like you that I refuse , I just can't be bothered anymore with dealing with the fallout from a letter of complaint from a "concerned" member of the public . Although I have done nothing wrong , once the bureaucracy starts , it is a real pain in the ass .

[Erna]

And how "petty" is it when my deodorant is taken away because it is in a bottle of 125 ml instead of 100 ml.... you have your opinion, I am entitled to mine.

[JAF737]

So, Erna, what is your problem basically?

That (some) people are allowed in the cockpit while you are not allowed to have liquid with you on board?
Or what else?

[B.Inventive]

Don't forget, the liquid rule applies to everyone, even the crew. So you're not the only ones.
the liquid rule, is a load of BS in my opinion though but that's my opinion.
About taking people in the cockpit, It is, and should ALWAYS remain a captain privilege, and pax should not be concerned about this, in the end do pax really think we value our lives less than them? Seriously, get a life.

[Passenger]

So, Erna, what is your problem basically?

That (some) people are allowed in the cockpit while you are not allowed to have liquid with you on board?
Or what else?

Although it's not possible to know what somebody else thinks, I think Erna indeed has a point here.

1. It's not about the jump seat: it's about the safety of the armed cockpit door. Is it safe that a passenger is invited to visit the cockpit, when airline policy states that the cockpit door must be armed and locked during the flight?

2. Why are there such strict safety precautions like the 125 ml rule, when a terrorist sitting in one of the front rows can easily jump into the cockpit when that door is open to allow another passenger to visit the cockpit?

[HighInTheSky]

So, Erna, what is your problem basically?

That (some) people are allowed in the cockpit while you are not allowed to have liquid with you on board?
Or what else?

Although it's not possible to know what somebody else thinks, I think Erna indeed has a point here.

1. It's not about the jump seat: it's about the safety of the armed cockpit door. Is it safe that a passenger is invited to visit the cockpit, when airline policy states that the cockpit door must be armed and locked during the flight?

2. Why are there such strict safety precautions like the 125 ml rule, when a terrorist sitting in one of the front rows can easily jump into the cockpit when that door is open to allow another passenger to visit the cockpit?

So, to put this into perspective, the cockpit crew can't recieve meals or drinks neither? (the door will be open at that moment aswel) Toilet visits for capt or f/o aren't possible in this case neither.

Really, this is making a fuss about nothing at all...

If the captain wants to invite somebody in the cockpit, he is free to do so unless otherwise specified by his company.

BTW, in response to the 100ml rule, everybody who has had the Security course in the Raketstraat will have had the same resume, and will know that this is pure BS, just to keep the UK and USA happy.

[JAF737]

Passenger,

Nice way of thinking. Perhaps you should contact Airbus and Boeing to have toilets, galleys, and a crew rest area included in the cockpit.

Anyway, cockpit visits are allowed for SOME people (this depends on company procedures) and frankly, I don't understand your point.

[Passenger]

Passenger,

Nice way of thinking. Perhaps you should contact Airbus and Boeing to have toilets, galleys, and a crew rest area included in the cockpit.

Anyway, cockpit visits are allowed for SOME people (this depends on company procedures) and frankly, I don't understand your point.

You are totally right. But allow me : it's quite cheap from you to suggest that I do not know that cabin crew and/or cockpit crew sometimes have to enter/leave the cockpit for duty related reasons, toilet stops and/or catering. Believe me, I've flown enough to know they have to do so.

"Cockpit visits are allowed for SOME people - this depends on company procedures". So your answer is that it is not forbitten. Can someone who knows the exact safety regulations (EU, IATA, ICAO, CAA, ...) confirm this?

And the other question from Erna also remains unanswered: can a company accept that it gives passengers a very uncomfortable feeling when they see that other passengers enter the cockpit? Because after all, all the guys who have crashed aircraft on 9/11 were all seen as "normal passengers" untill the fatal moments.

(thanks for pointing out that it's 100 ml and not 125 ml. But honnestly, I knew that. With my "125 ml rule", I was referring to Erna's remark that her deo of 125 ml is refused).

[JAF737]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that everybody is welcome to the cockpit just by raising a hand...

Again, there are clear regulations about that within airlines.

Think about ATC controllers (they do observation flights from time to time), trainee pilots (not in uniform), ground staff travelling for duty purposes), etc...

Obvisouly, a tourist sitting in the back without any prior auhorization would not be allowed in the cockpit...

[Passenger]

Erna,

Some people apparently think that passengers' only rights are to sit still and shut up. Not the European Union, who says that passengers have also the right on a safe flight: Passengers rights - Air security: "Cockpit doors are kept locked to prevent unauthorised persons from entering the flight deck".

Source:
http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/tr ... dex_en.htm

So as answer to your initial post: yes, you may complain if an unknown fellow passenger was allowed into the cockpit because he/she loves planes, just like us.