Belgian ATC staff considering industrial action

[jan_olieslagers]

As we could read elsewhere (but only in local language), some among Belgocontrol staff are unhappy about their present situation: we read complaints about understaffing and political control. The original bell-ringers cannot go any further, so (with a a little hesitation 'cause its my first) I'm launching this poll to request your opinion: Their frustration seems so serious that they might launch industrial action any moment. Would you sympathise?

I'm not certain how long to leave the poll open, so for the time being I am setting no limit.

Please feel free to comment!

[NCB]

Instead of industrial actions, Atco's should try to complain to the authorities if the problem is understaffing. They shall prove that their employer requests too much of them and that it puts safety in danger. The authorities will have to carry-out an investigation and Belgocontrol reports to the authorities, so such a complaint can not go unnoticed.

The damage of an industrial action at airports by a handful of controllers can have disastrous consequences and big money can be involved, as opposed to regular industrial actions in other sectors where thousands need to get out to stop an entire factory's work.

Outside that, they get the best rosters, the best pay, the best pension plans, the best job security compared to similarily or even more demanding jobs. Training is more than free, no bachelor requirements, only good intelligence and decent personnality.
I understand the dangers of overload for a controller but it's like with any job, you have responsibilities, you try to protect them and if your employer asks you to do the impossible or the dangerous, then you should complain and if nothing changes, quit and find another employer. There's plenty out there, Eurocontrol, Skyguide, etc...
Just as example and as many Atco's wished they were pilots, being a pilot is no easier: difficult rosters, bad pay until captain, pay for initial training, got to be lucky to get hired in the beginning, pension plans so-so, job security so-so, big amount of responsibility, teaming with pilots who think they are god or talk too much, always trying to catch up delays, always under company pressure, the constant pressure of working in an unpredictable environment, putting your own life on the line, sometimes dealing with people with little or nothing in their skull, management doesn't care about them, etc...

As people say, your neighbor's dish always looks better than your own.

[flightlover]

I understand the dangers of overload for a controller but it's like with any job, you have responsibilities, you try to protect them and if your employer asks you to do the impossible or the dangerous, then you should complain and if nothing changes, quit and find another employer. There's plenty out there, Eurocontrol, Skyguide, etc...

You just have to wait a few minutes and there is some one to tell, hey they can change jobs if they don't like theirs. But that doesn't solve the basic problem, it just continues to be there.

[Prevangor]

100% agree. But you should send them to their supervisory authority - Service public fédéral Mobilité et Transports/Federale Overheidsdienst Mobiliteit en Vervoer. Or to the roof organisation of all national equivalents of FAA and CAA - the EASA.

[Aldgate]

Atco's should try to complain to the authorities if the problem is understaffing

It's the authorities that made the decisions that led to the understaffing. As it is a public company, e.g.: the stop on hiring public servants some time ago meant that there were no new controllers hired for several years.
Anyway, the underlying problem is probably the lack of vision and planning in the HR section.

then you should complain and if nothing changes, quit and find another employer. There's plenty out there, Eurocontrol, Skyguide, etc...

Sure, no problem... Who wants to live with their wives and children anyway? Just leave them behind in Belgium where they have their friends, schools and jobs. There is only one ANSP in Belgium, the are more companies that recruit pilots...

they get the best rosters

Oh, I could give you so many examples....

as many Atco's wished they were pilots

As people say, your neighbor's dish always looks better than your own.

If you try hard enough you can always find someone who is worse off than you. But that doesn't mean you have to give up and shut up. That way you only endorse the bad situation.

[NCB]

Atco's should try to complain to the authorities if the problem is understaffing

It's the authorities that made the decisions that led to the understaffing. As it is a public company, e.g.: the stop on hiring public servants some time ago meant that there were no new controllers hired for several years.
Anyway, the underlying problem is probably the lack of vision and planning in the HR section.

Belgocontrol hired many new guys in the spring of 2007. They should have finished their on-the-job training phase by now. And as someone posted, a letter from the union to the ministry will do more than a strike.
Belgocontrol is a public entity managed as a private entity. So Belgocontrol has to report to the ministry but they manage their internal affairs. I don't think that the ministry would explicitly ask to cut on personnel, the funds are there and shedding a dozen Atco jobs isn't going to change anything.

Sure, no problem... Who wants to live with their wives and children anyway? Just leave them behind in Belgium where they have their friends, schools and jobs. There is only one ANSP in Belgium, the are more companies that recruit pilots...

I know it's hard on your social life to take a job elsewhere.
But you can't have everything. Think about it, by hiring you, Belgocontrol gives you a unique opportunity, an opportunity that you have asked for and one that many people would die for.

Oh, I could give you so many examples....

You only get to work 16-18 days a month anyway. Rosters are excellent, probably not perfect, but not the crazy stuff you get in other sectors, believe me.

As people say, your neighbor's dish always looks better than your own.

If you try hard enough you can always find someone who is worse off than you. But that doesn't mean you have to give up and shut up. That way you only endorse the bad situation.

[/quote]

As Atco, you don't have to try hard to find someone who is worse off than you. An Atco earns as much as an average dad & mom earn combined doing jobs that are sometimes harder. I've never seen 1995 Ford Fiesta's parked at Belgocontrol parkings. Also when hard times hit, like now, you don't have to worry about losing your job.

If understaffing is a problem, make your point, but don't ground 100 000 innocent passengers, flights, airports with millions of euros in financial damages as a result.
If the authorities tell you that you're crazy, try the media. It'd be scandalous for the authorities to cut on safety!!

It doesn't even look good for you guys with Eurocontrol itching to take control of the Belgian skies as part of the common skies... do you really want a strike?

[Aldgate]

Belgocontrol hired many new guys in the spring of 2007. They should have finished their on-the-job training phase by now. And as someone posted, a letter from the union to the ministry will do more than a strike.

Correct, they all finished their OJT and are now qualified assistent controllers. At this moment in time, new entries are not trained to be radar controllers or tower controllers in one go. First they become assistents, then tower and only then go to the approach or ACC course. We are talking years here. So hiring those new people will be a solution in a few years... (It took most of the controllers I know 4 to 6 years to become radar controllers)
And don't worry, I know they are talking to the political representatives and everything is being done to avoid a strike. Even at this moment.

Belgocontrol is a public entity managed as a private entity. So Belgocontrol has to report to the ministry but they manage their internal affairs. I don't think that the ministry would explicitly ask to cut on personnel, the funds are there and shedding a dozen Atco jobs isn't going to change anything.

Belgocontrol is (should be) managed as a private entity. At this time the minister is not directly interfering with the day to day management. But when you know that at this time there is no HR manager (the post of HR manager is taken up by the CEO) and that there have been 4 or 5 different HR managers in the past years, how effective can the HR strategy be?

I know it's hard on your social life to take a job elsewhere.
But you can't have everything. Think about it, by hiring you, Belgocontrol gives you a unique opportunity, an opportunity that you have asked for and one that many people would die for.

It's only hard on the peoples social life but on their life. You can have a social life anywhere. But a family life is not so easily (re-)build or moved.
Being able to work as an ATCO is a great opportunity but you give me the idea that you think you only have to ask for it and if you're lucky they give you a licence. ATCOs do have to study and work to do the job.

You only get to work 16-18 days a month anyway. Rosters are excellent, probably not perfect, but not the crazy stuff you get in other sectors, believe me.

I don't know where you get that information but I'm afraid it is not entirely accurate. The only restriction is that an ATCO at Belgocontrol can only work 12 (or 13, I'm not quite sure) days in a row. Then he should be off 1 day. So in a 30 day month an ATCO could work 28 days and be off for only 2! And yes, it happens, trust me.

[TCAS]

an ATCO could work 28 days and be off for only 2!

First Class, asocial Parti Scandaleux slavery.

[matsATC]

I think you're missing the point: it's not (only) the staff shortage that's our problem. Or the fact that there is no clear HR policy.

Our main concern is the lack of a clear strategy for Belgocontrol in the Single European Sky. If nothing changes, Belgian airspace might be taken over by the Netherlands, Germany or France in the following years. The only controllers left in Belgium will be the ones at the towers. All the rest might have to move to Amsterdam, Paris, Reims or Langen. Or become pilots...

[Zealot]

The general population will never be willing to understand the situation and you can't realy blame them.
on the other hand you shouldn't realy care about that either since nobody else does (nmbs, de lijn, etc etc etc)
I'd say go for it and the more complains the more chance on a change.

[luchtpak]

Or become pilots...

One can always try of course...

[NCB]

Our main concern is the lack of a clear strategy for Belgocontrol in the Single European Sky.

That would make sense indeed. But will strikes make people sympathise with you? I hardly think so.
If the common skies come and they move you guys, no can help.

Also, you'd be the compromise against a huge progress in operations throughout Europe that is going to save time, money and CO². No one will be against you moving but yourself. And though I sympathise with you, I can't support you because the cause is bigger and one that has been delayed for too long.

I've seen furloughed pilots who wished they could have been given the option to take a job elsewhere, even if that implied moving with their families. How many Belgian pilots have left Belgium for the Emirates with their entire families on a quest for better pay, better conditions? Moving with the family for the job is a formality carried out by countless people all over the world on a daily basis.

[Nevihta]

And though I sympathise with you..

Well, when reading all your comments, I have a doubt
Many wrong things have been said here, and some of them by you, looking quite sure of yourself.

You only get to work 16-18 days a month anyway. Rosters are excellent, probably not perfect, but not the crazy stuff you get in other sectors, believe me.

Wrong. I don't know where you have your informations from, but please don't believe him.

Belgocontrol hired many new guys in the spring of 2007. They should have finished their on-the-job training phase by now

Wrong again.
Training is not so fast as for a pilot, and don't forget a lot of people get retired, what about replacing them ?
Again, it's not easy to found trained ATCO's and operationnal quickly. HR policy must be more anticipating.

I've never seen 1995 Ford Fiesta's parked at Belgocontrol parkings.

I don't have exact figures, but about 1/3 only of Belgocontrol personnel is ATCO's, so I'm not sure such a statement is relevant.
The relation between making money and having an expensive car is not so obvious to me.

Just as example and as many Atco's wished they were pilots,

Any poll, or source to that affirmation ?

being a pilot is no easier: difficult rosters, bad pay until captain, pay for initial training, got to be lucky to get hired in the beginning, pension plans so-so, job security so-so, big amount of responsibility, teaming with pilots who think they are god or talk too much, always trying to catch up delays, always under company pressure, the constant pressure of working in an unpredictable environment, putting your own life on the line, sometimes dealing with people with little or nothing in their skull, management doesn't care about them, etc...

you'd be surprised on how ATCO's and pilots have similarities.


The point here is not to make a comparison, but just to tell some truths and stop rumours.
I hope pilots and ATCO's enjoy both their job as they have a wonderful one, with many advantages.
The drawback being you have to cope with things not so pleasant, stress, responsibilities, social life difficult when working nights, holidays etc..

Right now, a lot is asked to ATCO's (it's surely the same for pilots), and they think safety could be endangered. New important challenges are coming and maybe they feel it won't work that way.


edit : I'm not an ATCO

[NCB]

Nevihta, welcome to luchtzak and merry Christmas.

Right now, a lot is asked to ATCO's (it's surely the same for pilots), and they think safety could be endangered. New important challenges are coming and maybe they feel it won't work that way.

The point of a strike is to put pressure on your employer. But have you considered the collateral damage of a potential strike?
When ATC goes on strike, an entire airport gets grounded. Not just an airline or a handler, an entire airport.
Hundreds of thousands of fingers pointing at the ATC, just in the same way the BRU fire brigade found themselves without support from anyone when they went on strike. Tens of thousands have to cancel their meetings or see the holidays they were looking forward to since months go up in smokes.
Even considering that the actions are pre-announced, hundreds of companies and hundreds of thousands of people will need to change their plans, bookings, schedules, rosters.

The message to the management will be clear: hire more people, keep Belgocontrol running the skies.
Hire more people: can't do any good if you can't use them immediately as you said very well.
Keep Belgocontrol running the Belgian skies: it won't depend on the Belgian authorities. A strike will not improve your chances, just the opposite.

Wrong again.
Training is not so fast as for a pilot, and don't forget a lot of people get retired, what about replacing them ?
Again, it's not easy to found trained ATCO's and operationnal quickly. HR policy must be more anticipating.

After almost 2 years, atco's acquire independence.
I've seen some Belgian atco's work at different airports which I found weird and though atco's are very smart people and it's nice to give it some variety, I don't find it recomforting and particularily prudent.

edit : I'm not an ATCO

NCB wrote:
Just as example and as many Atco's wished they were pilots,

Any poll, or source to that affirmation ?

2 questions, one long answer.
Quite some time ago I applied for the job with Eurocontrol. I wasn't sure whether I wanted to go the pilot way or the ATC way as with many young people. Anyways, as I was invited to the selections I went up to Eurocontrol, to give it a try, to see what I was worth.
I got up to the stage where you get to visit the radar room. I was so turned off that I apologised and didn't show up to the interview I was invited to. Tell you what turned me off: the bored faces of the atco's. Funny was, one of the atco's was surfing on a porn site in the resting area and he didn't look ashamed about it, others working in the radar room turned their chairs into beds. Atco's are very smart and disciplined people but I felt like they were not getting to use all of their capabilities in that limited environment. I am still in contact with a guy who passed the selections at the same time, did the training and got the job. Though very enthusiastic about it in the beginning, he looks bored now, got his private license after he got his atco license and we go flying together every now and then.
Nevertheless, he gets very nice rosters, alot of free time, very good money with huge compensation for shift-work, job stability, big holidays and he can look forward to a nice, early retirement. He seems to be happy about all that but just not too much about the job itself.

I have met people whom I met during the Eurocontrol selections later on at flight schools across Europe and it is a rocksolid fact that many atco's who get hired have considered both the ATC and pilot option and went to ATC because the door was opened to them. The road is hard either way and I praise atco's for the great job they deliver even if it's not easy.

I do support atco's in this issue but I do not support an industrial action as that will only put them into a weaker position into the common skies discussions.

Also, my advise to apply to another employer if safety is compromised comes from my own past experience. When I was just 20, I found myself alone in charge of protecting about 350 human lives in an emergency evac (building fire). Though no human life was compromised in the event, I resigned sooner than too late, realising how close to disaster I got and happy that all I had to worry about for the rest of my life were a few scars on my hands.

[TCAS]

@NCB,

Please be realistic

If Pilots are working under the same circumstances/conditions and/or Duty hours as Belgocontrol ATCO's, any Representative Pilot Organization (example: BALPA, VNV-Dalpa ect.) would aks for serious action or strike.

Beside Aircaft, personal or cattle collateral damage, I don't think Pilots give a damm < censored > about collateral strike damage!

[NCB]

Tcas, I'm being realistic

Look, let's put it simply.
Let's say the 400 and some Brussels Airlines flight crew go on strike because they're not happy about management. (and there have been times where it was like that).
All customers flying on SN will be affected that day, and so will be the rest of its employees. But atco's will do their job as usually, and so will the fire brigade, the other airlines, etc...

Now imagine all Belgocontrol Atco's, about 150 guys and girls? going on strike and grounding all operations at BRU, ANR, OST, CRL, LGG and some lower radar facilities.
The damage would be 20 times bigger for 3 times less strikers.

Problem number one, too much damage for too little people.
Problem number two, when an airline goes on strike, passengers will be affected, meaning the management will loose money and reputation, giving in to its staff's request. Belgocontrol management doesn't have reputation or money to loose in strikes. They won't care, and knowing that you don't have any other options, they won't give you any of what you want. Even less, when the EU decides about the common skies, they may not support you.

I'd go through the authorities, they can't say that they don't care.
If they do, threaten to report to the EASA. If they still don't care, go to the media with proof that they said that they don't care. You'd get a huge audience, support and if it doesn't change yet, go on a pre-announced, well-informed American-style strike, until Belgocontrol signs whatever you want them to sign.

If the authorities (mininstry of transportation, not Belgocontrol) do care about safety and they probably do, they will take interim measures such as putting other people in Belgocontrol's management, training military ATC to civilian standards and starting the hiring process.

[RadarContact]

NCB wrote

Quite some time ago I applied for the job with Eurocontrol. I wasn't sure whether I wanted to go the pilot way or the ATC way as with many young people. Anyways, as I was invited to the selections I went up to Eurocontrol, to give it a try, to see what I was worth.
I got up to the stage where you get to visit the radar room. I was so turned off that I apologised and didn't show up to the interview I was invited to. Tell you what turned me off: the bored faces of the atco's. Funny was, one of the atco's was surfing on a porn site in the resting area and he didn't look ashamed about it, others working in the radar room turned their chairs into beds. Atco's are very smart and disciplined people but I felt like they were not getting to use all of their capabilities in that limited environment. I am still in contact with a guy who passed the selections at the same time, did the training and got the job. Though very enthusiastic about it in the beginning, he looks bored now, got his private license after he got his atco license and we go flying together every now and then.
Nevertheless, he gets very nice rosters, alot of free time, very good money with huge compensation for shift-work, job stability, big holidays and he can look forward to a nice, early retirement. He seems to be happy about all that but just not too much about the job itself.

As an ATCO I want to reply to this topic. But unfortunately I'm too busy surfing to porn sites and right now I'm having problems with my chair. I've heard you can make a bed out of it. If only I knew how...

NCB, if your experience with ATC is limited to the above, please shut up! By the way, we're talking about Belgocontrol and not Eurocontrol.

[TCAS]

If the authorities (mininstry of transportation, not Belgocontrol) do care about safety and they probably do, they will take interim measures such as putting other people in Belgocontrol's management, training military ATC to civilian standards and starting the hiring process.

If the Belgian Civil Aviation Authorities (Federal Mininstry of Transportation), have any sense of 'Human' Air Traffic Safety responsibility/accountability, Belgocontrol ATCO's would not be exploited or treated as 'Call Center' slaves.

From A to Z it's Political mismanagement 'Air Traffic Safety; Isn't Our Mission' and/or first class Governmental Window Dressing (Keeping up Appearances).

Note: if you notify mismanagement, abuse and fraud as an individual whistleblower, or speak/write the truth and nothing else but the truth, you'll be dead 'Aviation' meat.

[NCB]

Radarcontact, save your energy and adrenaline for your shift, if you so much claim that you'll need it.
Yes my experience is limited to hanging around with bored atco's; some from Euro, some from Belgo, some from France, some from FAA. Bored but not arrogant, you seem to make the exception.

TCAS, I don't understand. In my opinion, the Belgian CAA is doing a great job overall. It may not be the case for the atco's but Belgocontrol is very profitable so I don't see why they should eliminate a dozen atco's and endanger safety?

If you go on strike, you obviously bring up mismanagement. Isn't that too, a recipe for dead aviation burgers?

From an outsider's perspective (not necessarily mine), saying that it's dangerous on one hand but saying that one doesn't want to go through the discomfort of relocating on the other hand sounds selfish. (My perspective:) If it's dangerous and you really care about the lives of the passengers, why would you still accept that responsibility? Many SN pilots left to Air France because of low pay at SN. That includes relocation for many of them. What's wrong with atco's doing the same?

In the end, atco's will do what they think is best for them.
Good luck!

[flightlover]

From an outsider's perspective (not necessarily mine), saying that it's dangerous on one hand but saying that one doesn't want to go through the discomfort of relocating on the other hand sounds selfish. (My perspective:) If it's dangerous and you really care about the lives of the passengers, why would you still accept that responsibility? Many SN pilots left to Air France because of low pay at SN. That includes relocation for many of them. What's wrong with atco's doing the same?

In the end, atco's will do what they think is best for them.
Good luck!

And still, if even every atco would relocate and change job, then still there will be the same problem!!!!

I know the world is to the egoïsts, but not all people are that way. Some people do care and want to change the basic problem isto go off running away from it.