SN Brussels' expansion in Africa: it may acquire Camair

Post by **sn26567** » 19 Sep 2006, 09:46

Atlantis wrote:Why wasn't it posted direct on the forum?

Because news is posted where it fits: in the latest news section. The forum is there to comment the news afterwards.

Post by **sn26567** » 17 Oct 2006, 16:58

End of the game for SN?

According to an article in a Cameroon newspaper this 17 October 2006, United Airlines and the US ambassador to Cameroon have signed an agreement with the Cameroonese government that would give contriol of Camair to United. In exchange, many American investors would invest in the country.

United would use 15 Boeing aircraft and take over most of the Camair staff. They would also open a direct link between Douala and New York.

See Luchtzak latest news

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 17 Oct 2006, 18:04

Maybe is this news not bad al all.

You can see it in this way: they have now time to think about how can SNBA survive in the future. What about the flights to Europe, Africa and maybe future new destinations instead of taking over an African carrier.

beaucaire · Post by **beaucaire** » 17 Oct 2006, 18:47

....dealing with an African Airline will be a BIIIIIG experience for the Americans!!!
The american way of life and management has not yet made it into the minds of many Africans and never will.
I wish them good luck - and to SNBrussels -you should have known better considering Belgian experience in West-Africa...
Some have been a little blue-eyed ,underestimating the big-boy's influence and political pressure !

beaucaire · Post by **beaucaire** » 20 Oct 2006, 19:38

http://allafrica.com/stories/200609200753.html

jan_olieslagers · Post by **jan_olieslagers** » 20 Oct 2006, 19:57

Atlantis wrote:Maybe is this news not bad al all.

You can see it in this way: they have now time to think about how can SNBA survive in the future. What about the flights to Europe, Africa and maybe future new destinations instead of taking over an African carrier.

I couldn't agree more. Also, if Camair really partners with a US airline, the focus will be on US-Africa traffic, leaving opportunities open on the Doula-Europe routes. Part of those opportunities would be for the future Belgian flag carrier anyway, given their historical knowledge and reputation, and this time without the hindrances of having to work with an African government.

sn-remember · Post by **sn-remember** » 24 Oct 2006, 17:55

Too bad for SN.

UA being in the Star alliance, I am sure they will develop the european link also .
ZRH, MUN, FRA are clear candidates besides PAR of course.
Don't forget Cameroon has had historical ties with Germany once.

I see the SN position possibly threatened.
In fact UA should better have bought SN no?

More seriously IMHO SN should consider if possible close cooperation with the new Camair and not orient its strategy solely towards the 1W alliance

Airbus330lover · Post by **Airbus330lover** » 24 Oct 2006, 19:10

sn-remember wrote:
More seriously IMHO SN should consider if possible close cooperation with the new Camair and not orient its strategy solely towards the 1W alliance

To orient a strategy, you must FIRST have a strategy.
Last 5 months, no communication and.... perhaps no strategy by SN.
Intern problems ?

b-west · Post by **b-west** » 25 Oct 2006, 11:31

It's not because SN doesn't communicate its strategic plans with the general public that they aren't there. Besides, a big part of the general public doesn't care about strategic plans, they just care about getting to their destination. And I don't think SN is going to reveal all their plans just to satisfy a few aviation enthousiasts like us.

AirDupont · Post by **AirDupont** » 25 Oct 2006, 12:07

Maybe they shouldn't communicate with aviation enthousiasts but what they could do is at least communicate with their staff. After the pilots, now cabin crew are also leaving the company. something like 15 cabin crew resigned the last 2 months. makes you think....

Post by **sn26567** » 26 Oct 2006, 10:50

For those of you who know French, the link hereafter is really worth reading. You will learn about the megalomaniac plans of the US company (Valiant Airways Ltd) that wants to take over Camair with the support of the Prime Minister (althoughtheir bid came in late): a fleet of 747s serving, from Douala, 3-4 destinations in the US, several European destinations, the Philippines, Brasil, etc!

This company has only lose ties with United (which, being under bankruptcy laws, cannot create a new company anyway).

http://www.camer.be/index2.php?art=2188

The website of Valiant, which shows a map of Texas (they are based in Houston) and one of Cameroon, is unfortunately password-protected! Something to hide?

http://valiantair.com/

The SN Brussels project looked much more serious. Any reaction from SN insiders?

And how long can the Cameroon authorities consider a valid contract as void and renege on their promises?

Africa! Africa!

sn-remember · Post by **sn-remember** » 26 Oct 2006, 13:52

Thank you Andre for the interesting reading. (BTW it is worth a english translation)
I must say that I was quite surprised when I read on this forum that United would do the deal.
Indeed the news item published on this forum (17 oct) was misleading
Let me quote it again here:

Camair: United in, SN Brussels out?
Posted on Tuesday, October 17 @ 16:53:46 CEST by sn26567

According to an article in a Cameroon newspaper this 17 October 2006, United Airlines and the US ambassador to Cameroon have signed an agreement with the Cameroonese government that would give control of Camair to United. In exchange, many American investors would invest in the African country.

United would use 15 Boeing aircraft for Camair and take over most of the Camair staff. They would also open a direct link between Douala and New York.

This info startled me as I said because it was to me very unexpected that a US carrier (any) would step in.
In fact the late PanAm was too happy to sell its european ops to LH in a tentative survival step and since then I don't know of any american carrier investing abroad.

However, this is very confusing indeed...
1. What is United Airlines commitment and where do they come in the picture ?
2. What is "VAL" (never heard and you ?) 's commitment in this business ? It seems the risk is limited since the a/c financial burden would be on the Cameroon's state ?
3. And finally what is the Cameroon's state commitment ?

This "VAL" setup seems pouder for the eyes to me ...
And very weird !

FlightSimCrew · Post by **FlightSimCrew** » 26 Oct 2006, 13:56

AirDupont wrote:Maybe they shouldn't communicate with aviation enthousiasts but what they could do is at least communicate with their staff. After the pilots, now cabin crew are also leaving the company. something like 15 cabin crew resigned the last 2 months. makes you think....

I dont think CCM are leaving because they are not informed but rather because they are anxious of what might change to their normal work. I can understand that people leave to other opportunities or that some leave because they do not feel at place anymore.. I respect people that leave because they do not agree with the path/strategy chosen and go work somewhere that they thrust in. But people just quitting because they feel not informed should know better.. how ridicilous is it that you jump of the ship before there is any indication that it might sink ???

Post by **sn26567** » 26 Oct 2006, 16:45

Stay on topic please. This topic is about Camair, not the SN communication strategy!

boul · Post by **boul** » 27 Oct 2006, 00:11

And the winner is .... SN

http://www.camer.be/index2.php?art=1984

sn-remember · Post by **sn-remember** » 27 Oct 2006, 10:29

Fine
Is this time this news credible

L’Etat qui vient de créer Cameroon Airlines Corporation, cèdera 51% du capital aux partenaires stratégiques. Ces 51% du capital seront répartis entre la compagnie aérienne belge SN Brussels qui détiendra 60% et le groupe financier Cenainvest 40%. Les 49% détenus par Le gouvernement camerounais seront répartis entre : L’Etat et ses démembrements (30 %), les opérateurs privés camerounais (14 %), et le personnel (5 %).

As I understand SN will detain 30% only of the whole new airline entity.
Not much ...
To compare with KL detaining 26% of the Kenyan carrier KQ.
But NBO has lots more potential than DLA.

I would have prefered SN taking a majority stake (51%) in the new venture. Is this foreseen in the agreement in a later stage ?

Greets
Christophe

Post by **sn26567** » 03 Dec 2006, 11:11

For those of you who read French, the latest news available from a Cameroonian newspaper can be found here: http://www.cameroon-info.net/cmi_show_news.php?id=18392

A majority of Cameroonians prefer the Valiant Air/United offer and only a few of them would like to see SN Brussels take over Camair.

Robertcarion · Post by **Robertcarion** » 03 Dec 2006, 14:35

Refering to the post above stating "But NBO has lots more potential than DLA." I fully disagree. NBO is the homebase of KQ, if any of you know what that means, a fleet of 737-700 et -800, and you want SN to compete with them with Bea 146, I can see some of you guys never traveled in Africa. The fact is KQ has such a strong foothold in NBO, not forgeting all the other airlines that come to NBO (LX, KL, EK, BA) that SN is in no way able to do something really viable. An option would be to base the airline in EBB, make all the A330's go through EBB instead of NBO, that way u bring your own clients to EBB from countries around Uganda and no worries to be made about KQ since you offer direct flight to EBB. DLA is a much more central location if u want to make a single hub. But SN should have mcuh greater ideas, they are so shy about implementing ideas, ideally they should make SN Africa Airlines and use DLA and EBB as hubs but that is so ambitious that the managers at SN would have the poopers just thinking about it.

Well I am open to critics, and I'd be glad to discuss

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 03 Dec 2006, 18:49

Robertcarion wrote: I can see some of you guys never traveled in Africa. ...ideally they should make SN Africa Airlines and use DLA and EBB as hubs but that is so ambitious that the managers at SN would have the poopers just thinking about it. Well I am open to critics, and I'd be glad to discuss

Right you are, Robert. btw are you family of Roger?
1- I can see some of you guys never travelled in Africa.
Are there still people @ SN who have Africa experience?
2- SN would have the poopers just thinking about it.
too small: before that former airline was under-financed, but with myriads of ideas...
It's a pity now they miss both of these commodities... and the aircraft.
3- Well I am open to critics, and I'd be glad to discuss
Roger's boss (and mine) in Africa, used to say : Carry on, Roger...

Philippe1983 · Post by **Philippe1983** » 03 Dec 2006, 22:01

:teach: Let's first see how the SN-VEX marriage will do on the European market, after that we will maybe think about expansion plans...

Aviation24.be

SN Brussels' expansion in Africa: it may acquire Camair

About choosing NBO as a HUB rather than DLA

Re: About choosing NBO as a HUB rather than DLA