2 wins for Ryanair pilots & their unions in only 2 days: Belgian labour law – instead of Irish – will apply as of 31 Jan. 2019 to all directly employed pilots & cabin crew based in Belgium.
This comes only one day after Ryanair pilots based in Spain achieved the same – national labour law, with no preconditions.
Now the real work can start: negotiating a comprehensive Collective Labour Agreement on the many issues where pilots want to see improvements in their working environment & conditions. A big job ahead.
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Ryanair in 2018
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Re: Ryanair in 2018
Re: Ryanair in 2018
There is international legislation for aircrew, allowing them to choose (income tax and/or social security taxes?). But this legislation ends in 2020 or 2022, me thinks. Not sure - I think that Sean has posted about that issue some time ago.luchtzak wrote: ↑25 Oct 2018, 20:57No idea!
Here is our article: https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/ryan ... c-lbc-nvk/
Working under Belgian labour legislation means they will have better rules for sickness, for special leave (like maternity or attending funerals), for insurance matters, ...
Re: Ryanair in 2018
Yeah, it’s a choice and also not a choice. So called “grandfather rights” lets the crewmember keep the contract until 2020 when they will have to start paying local social security. However the employer, employee or any change in contract can or does make the right void and you would have to start paying locally straight away.Passenger wrote: ↑26 Oct 2018, 11:18There is international legislation for aircrew, allowing them to choose (income tax and/or social security taxes?). But this legislation ends in 2020 or 2022, me thinks. Not sure - I think that Sean has posted about that issue some time ago.luchtzak wrote: ↑25 Oct 2018, 20:57No idea!
Here is our article: https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/ryan ... c-lbc-nvk/
Working under Belgian labour legislation means they will have better rules for sickness, for special leave (like maternity or attending funerals), for insurance matters, ...
Tax is a different issue and that depends on your country of emplyment, time spend in another country and whether or not there is a double tax agreemenrt.
Re: Ryanair in 2018
Grandfather rights end in 2022 I believe. However they end immediately if there is a “significant” change in circumstances or contract. The Irish office of social affairs already made a statement that indeed they view this as “change of circumstances” and will no longer issue an A1 certificate. The Belgian union said it is not a change of circumstances... (Irish social tax is 4%, Belgian 13,07%).Passenger wrote: ↑26 Oct 2018, 11:18There is international legislation for aircrew, allowing them to choose (income tax and/or social security taxes?). But this legislation ends in 2020 or 2022, me thinks. Not sure - I think that Sean has posted about that issue some time ago.luchtzak wrote: ↑25 Oct 2018, 20:57No idea!
Here is our article: https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/ryan ... c-lbc-nvk/
Working under Belgian labour legislation means they will have better rules for sickness, for special leave (like maternity or attending funerals), for insurance matters, ...
For income tax there is no change, Irish tax is payable (about 45% for pilots over the year I think)
Re: Ryanair in 2018
Court verdict: the judge forbits Ryanair to close its Eindhoven base!Passenger wrote: ↑18 Oct 2018, 08:49 Court case in Den Bosch (NL) today (18/10/2018): 13 Ryanair pilots demand that the court forbits Ryanair to close their base there, because that's done as a reaction to the past strike. Ryanair claims that Eindhoven base will be closed because of raising fuel prices, cheaper tickets and lower demand.
https://www.nu.nl/ondernemen/5547032/ry ... uiten.html
Re: Ryanair in 2018
Full verdict (in Dutch only):Passenger wrote: ↑01 Nov 2018, 11:36Court verdict: the judge forbits Ryanair to close its Eindhoven base!Passenger wrote: ↑18 Oct 2018, 08:49 Court case in Den Bosch (NL) today (18/10/2018): 13 Ryanair pilots demand that the court forbits Ryanair to close their base there, because that's done as a reaction to the past strike. Ryanair claims that Eindhoven base will be closed because of raising fuel prices, cheaper tickets and lower demand.
https://www.nu.nl/ondernemen/5547032/ry ... uiten.html
https://uitspraken.rechtspraak.nl/inzie ... :2018:5330
Re: Ryanair in 2018
I'm certainly no supporter of Ryanair, but the Dutch Justice is going astray there, imho.Passenger wrote: ↑01 Nov 2018, 11:36Court verdict: the judge forbits Ryanair to close its Eindhoven base!Passenger wrote: ↑18 Oct 2018, 08:49 Court case in Den Bosch (NL) today (18/10/2018): 13 Ryanair pilots demand that the court forbits Ryanair to close their base there, because that's done as a reaction to the past strike. Ryanair claims that Eindhoven base will be closed because of raising fuel prices, cheaper tickets and lower demand.
https://www.nu.nl/ondernemen/5547032/ry ... uiten.html
Re: Ryanair in 2018
One way ticket I guess ...
Star Alliance Gold / LH Senator
A300 A318 A319 A320 A321 A340 B737 B747 B757 B767 MD81 MD82 MD90 Tu134 IL18 BAe146 RJ85 RJ100 CRJ200 CRJ700 CRJ900 ERJ145 E170 E195 F50 F70 F100 ATR42 ATR72 Q300 Q400
http://my.flightmemory.com/euroflyer
A300 A318 A319 A320 A321 A340 B737 B747 B757 B767 MD81 MD82 MD90 Tu134 IL18 BAe146 RJ85 RJ100 CRJ200 CRJ700 CRJ900 ERJ145 E170 E195 F50 F70 F100 ATR42 ATR72 Q300 Q400
http://my.flightmemory.com/euroflyer
Re: Ryanair in 2018
Indeed: a very strange verdict, specially because it's a "voorzieningenrechter" = a short-case-tribunal, and thus no an in-depth Judge. This verdict looks very indepth to me. But it's in line with the previous short-case (kortgeding) court decision about the Ryanair strikes: a Dutch judge has forbitten that Ryanair would use foreign based pilots to counter a strike by Dutch pilots. The judge ruled that Ryanair had to submit itself to the strike...convair wrote: ↑01 Nov 2018, 13:14I'm certainly no supporter of Ryanair, but the Dutch Justice is going astray there, imho.Passenger wrote: ↑01 Nov 2018, 11:36Court verdict: the judge forbits Ryanair to close its Eindhoven base!Passenger wrote: ↑18 Oct 2018, 08:49 Court case in Den Bosch (NL) today (18/10/2018): 13 Ryanair pilots demand that the court forbits Ryanair to close their base there, because that's done as a reaction to the past strike. Ryanair claims that Eindhoven base will be closed because of raising fuel prices, cheaper tickets and lower demand.
https://www.nu.nl/ondernemen/5547032/ry ... uiten.html
Remembers me to that other Dutch court verdict where a judge ruled that a birdstrike is no extraordinary circumstance because the manual of aircraft manufacturers describes what to do then. So a birdstrike is part of normal flight operations, the judge ruled: "...Dat in het handboek van de producent wordt beschreven hoe gehandeld dient te worden na een birdstrike duidt er eveneens op dat het hierbij gaat om een omstandigheid die inherent is aan de normale uitoefening van het bedrijf van de luchtvaartmaatschappij..."
https://uitspraken.rechtspraak.nl/inzie ... :2016:5853
Re: Ryanair in 2018
A rather strange reasoning behind the verdict indeed.
“All engines out” is also a procedure described in the manual of every aircraft, though I’d doubt you’ll find any pilot describes it as a part of normal flight operations.
“All engines out” is also a procedure described in the manual of every aircraft, though I’d doubt you’ll find any pilot describes it as a part of normal flight operations.
Thomas
Re: Ryanair in 2018
Short statement from Ryanair: Ryanair will appeal to the court verdict and Ryanair will close Eindhoven on 6th November, as planned.Passenger wrote: ↑01 Nov 2018, 12:04Full verdict (in Dutch only):Passenger wrote: ↑01 Nov 2018, 11:36Court verdict: the judge forbits Ryanair to close its Eindhoven base!Passenger wrote: ↑18 Oct 2018, 08:49 Court case in Den Bosch (NL) today (18/10/2018): 13 Ryanair pilots demand that the court forbits Ryanair to close their base there, because that's done as a reaction to the past strike. Ryanair claims that Eindhoven base will be closed because of raising fuel prices, cheaper tickets and lower demand.
https://www.nu.nl/ondernemen/5547032/ry ... uiten.html
https://uitspraken.rechtspraak.nl/inzie ... :2018:5330
It's quite obvious that this verdict will not stand. Maybe Dutch appeal judges will support their colleagues, but a higher court (EU Court of Justice) will annull it. In a free market society, a judge has no jurisdiction about internal company policies. And unfortunately for the pilots, the above court verdict "Dutch labour legislation applies in the Netherlands" is based upon the judges' subjective and biased personal opinion. I can only hope for the pilots that the EU-Court withholds that part of the judgement (but we first have to await the Dutch appeal court verdict).
Re: Ryanair in 2018
Where did you find the Ryanair statement ?
Re: Ryanair in 2018
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Re: Ryanair in 2018
I would expect so, seeing that the company is Irish and the employee will not wotk for a Belgian branch (as long as the double taxation agreement exists between the two countries).
Re: Ryanair in 2018
Re: Ryanair in 2018
Nothing to do with the EU, double taxation agreements exist worldwide, to protect individuals from being taxed twice. Some people loose, other win, but that has nothing to do with Ryanair.
It sounds as you have a personal problem with the high Belgian taxes. Making the rich man poorer won’t make the poor man richer though, but this is way off topic.
Last edited by Poiu on 03 Nov 2018, 21:05, edited 1 time in total.