Jet Airways out of Brussels

[aerowings]

Sad news about Jet Airways possibly leaving BRU...
But it is good that BRU started some bilateral talks with Star Alliance partners because the Indian market is growing and considering the huge amount of young Indian people looking for overseas education (university and/or PhD students) it would be a great miss if for BRU if talks fail. India is one of the few countries in the world with a very huge share of young population!
Regarding the flights... please take in account that lots of Indians also think about their pocket money and don't spend it on expensive direct flights (to North America). That was partly the success of the BOM-BRU and DEL-BRU routes. But note that for Indians Jet Airways is still quite expensive and many complain about the service on board. I am in touch with quite a few Indian expats and not a lot of them fly Jet Airways because of the cost of a ticket. Some of them book Turkish Airlines (via Istanbul) to come to Europe and increasingly (and surprisingly) also more people choose Emirates via Dubai, even if they have a layover of 6 hours in Dubai! But it's worth the money. Some save up to 500 EUR a ticket. So if Brussels Airlines decide to take over the routes then they have to be very competitive because otherwise it will be a big fail.
About Air India - uhmm - take care because Air India doesn't have a good image in India! It's even more expensive than Jet Airways, bad service and old fashioned management. Only state officials and people who really have commitments (work related) to AI fly this airline.
I am very curious to see what happens next...

[Inquirer]

Sad news about Jet Airways possibly leaving BRU...
But it is good that BRU started some bilateral talks with Star Alliance partners because the Indian market is growing and considering the huge amount of young Indian people looking for overseas education (university and/or PhD students) it would be a great miss if for BRU if talks fail. India is one of the few countries in the world with a very huge share of young population!
Regarding the flights... please take in account that lots of Indians also think about their pocket money and don't spend it on expensive direct flights (to North America). That was partly the success of the BOM-BRU and DEL-BRU routes. But note that for Indians Jet Airways is still quite expensive and many complain about the service on board. I am in touch with quite a few Indian expats and not a lot of them fly Jet Airways because of the cost of a ticket. Some of them book Turkish Airlines (via Istanbul) to come to Europe and increasingly (and surprisingly) also more people choose Emirates via Dubai, even if they have a layover of 6 hours in Dubai! But it's worth the money. Some save up to 500 EUR a ticket. So if Brussels Airlines decide to take over the routes then they have to be very competitive because otherwise it will be a big fail.
About Air India - uhmm - take care because Air India doesn't have a good image in India! It's even more expensive than Jet Airways, bad service and old fashioned management. Only state officials and people who really have commitments (work related) to AI fly this airline.
I am very curious to see what happens next...

I doubt B.air will take a chance on the Indian market itself, after Jetairways were indeed to pull out.

As you mention yourself, there are ample low fares offered via many hubs situated between the EU and India, so what use would there be in trying to compete with all of them? I notice Jetairways mentions their hub in BRU to be lossmaking as a whole at present. No idea if true indeed (or just to explain their move) nor which routes are lossmaking, but the presence of the 3 Arabian carriers isn't going to help them of course, nor any other interested party willing to take its chance.
It's actually a nice example of how the presence of those 3 companies helps to disrupt existing traffic flows, chases away interested new customers, or worse even, prevents intercontinental growth by our own European airlines towards Asia, something several airlines in Europe have IMHO rightfully complained about in the past!

In their press release, I read BRU is realistic enough to understand this too and has set its hopes on an improved offer to India through the hubs already served from BRU (say Austrian, Lufthansa, etc as wel as the 3 Gulf hubs of course), and is rather focussing on finding alternatives for the transatlantic portion.

There I agree chances to find interested parties are a bit higher.
I notice they are explicitly betting everything on STAR and Brussels Airlines in particular.
Interesting to see how their feeling towards them has thus completely changed: a couple of years ago, one almost got the impression BRU couldn't care less about B.air and was doing everything it could to make their life as difficult as possible (inviting direct competitors over, plans for a low cost terminal, etc).
Seems they have finally understood the importance of a home based airline for their own sustainable growth plans: not surprising in fact, as this whole jetairways story shows them once again what foreign company presence is only worth in the long run.

Of course, it remains to be seen if Brussels Airlines (either directly or through one of their partners in the transatlantic joint venture) is going to be interested in taking over either Newark or Toronto from Jetairways: they probably won't mind seeing transatlantic capacity out of BRU drop (and prices go up) as a consequence of a direct competitor pulling out of the market, so they won't be very willing to simply prop up their own capacity as a response to that, in all honnesty: BRU might have to throw in quite a bit of incentives for them to do so. BRU probably won't be willing to for yet another New York flight, but are they going to be willing to pay up for keeping the Toronto route open? Then I could see Brussels Airlines operate it. Otherwise, the remaining demand will most likely be completely absorbed via modest capacity increases through the use of bigger planes by the Arabian carriers to India, and STAR alliance to America.
Simple as that.

[OO-ITR]

I doubt B.air will take a chance on the Indian market itself, after Jetairways were indeed to pull out.

Indeed I also doubt that SN will start flying to India themselves...

Of course, it remains to be seen if Brussels Airlines (either directly or through one of their partners in the transatlantic joint venture) is going to be interested in taking over either Newark or Toronto from Jetairways: they probably won't mind seeing transatlantic capacity out of BRU drop (and prices go up) as a consequence of a direct competitor pulling out of the market, so they won't be very willing to simply prop up their own capacity as a response to that, in all honnesty: BRU might have to throw in quite a bit of incentives for them to do so. BRU probably won't be willing to for yet another New York flight, but are they going to be willing to pay up for keeping the Toronto route open? Then I could see Brussels Airlines operate it. Otherwise, the remaining demand will most likely be completely absorbed via modest capacity increases through the use of bigger planes by the Arabian carriers to India, and STAR alliance to America.
Simple as that.

That would be a mistake to do. Look at the previous years. SN stayed passive concerning investments and growth with the result that other carriers found their way to Brussels (United, Air Canada, Etihad, Qatar, Emirates, ...).
I think SN should seize this opportunity but my gut feeling is that they are working on it...

[sn-remember]

A news article from Indian press with some additional views: http://www.livemint.com/Companies/JXM5V ... s-hub.html

It partly blames (lack of) support from SN to channelize passengers:

He said Jet Airways originally entered Brussels because it got a good deal from Brussels airport, and Brussels Airlines was going to help channelise passengers.

“However, not much success with that support. Also, Brussels is not a preferred destination in Europe for Indians apart from the diamond merchants. Jet Airways is looking to move to Amsterdam, where it can perhaps get into a joint venture with Delta/KLM-Air France to operate the india leg from Amsterdam,”

Pity they did'nt find the support they were seeking from b.air to "help channelise passsengers". It was obvious from the start that a close partnership betweeen the 2 carriers was required to make it work.
..
From AMS 9W will not be able to cross the Atlantic profitably me think bcs too much trafic split into kl/dl metal .. however they could offer a wider range of Indian destinations, del,bom,ccu,blr,maa come to mind provided EY do not object ... However should EY object as I expect them to, then the BRU option is still very much open imho. Btw last time I heard, they were evaluating an additional link ccu-bru. That could be prolonged to bos since b.air seems reluctant to expand now.
..
In case they still want to leave BRU, I doubt b.air would take the indian routes back. However regarding the Americas, they could very well open ewr and reopen yul. AC would take the yyz route as it is a hub route for them. It's clear that some aditional route/frequency to AFI would be welcome in this scenario to help feed the extra N_A capacity. Nbo, jro come to mind as "new" destinations (provided LH do not object but why should they as it seems their new nbo flight is not working as expected) as well as w/c-Afi reinforcement to make it 2 dailies. All in all that would make 4 additional l/haulers to do the job properly.
That would be imho the best possible arrangement for b.air ?

[Atlantis]

Of course, BRU was aware of a possible move of Jet Airways. Thats why the aviation developing team was looking especially at SN and Air India as possible candidates. Be sure that if Jet will move, the gap will be filled soon.

Now Jet Airways took official contact with BRU to talk about their future developments at the airport. Again something new. So what do they expect?? They have the full support of the airport. Will it be about a new route from Kolkata or the move? Time will tell, but I`m sure that Jet Airways is playing a very dangerous game in this. AMS is absolutely not sure as not convenient slots, also the partners (KLM/Delta) are not informed and Ethiad leave it up at Jet in this case. Towards BRU they can show them that they are not so reliable.

Risky business of Jet

[Jetter]

Of course those AMS slots won't be used "until further notice". Like if an airliner would ever change a flight schedule without notice

If changes are 'expected' is something totally different though. Why do you repeatedly say it won't happen if Jet themselves say they are considering options? What is your source?

[convair]

Anyway, there are not necessarily inconsistencies in 9W's behaviour/statements: if they are leaving BRU altogether, they couldn't ackowledge that before officially talking to their personnel, so they acted prudently when they denied leaving BRU 2 days ago; for the same reason, they had to keep everyone in the blue regarding the future use of the slots they had asked for and obtained in AMS.

I might certainly be wrong but it looks to me their mind is made up and their decision taken.

I apologize for quoting myself here, but so far I haven't read anything that contradicts my above post of November 7.

[BRU]

Will Jet Airways leave Brussels Airport all together? No, that's not the intention.

Yes, they will. Unfortunatelly. And in days max weeks all speculation can stop, after they announce. Which will be good. This is a story that was waiting to happen once Air India came to Star, Etihad invested in Jet, b.air reduced cooperation with Jet, etc etc.

Good to be optimistic, but...

[sn26567]

I just recently joined this board.

I already regret I joined. Certainly as an insider, I probably shouldn't be here. Everything I say will be held against me. So why bother any further?

We do not regret that you joined. Your input so far has been very positive and we appreciate it. We will not hold it against you. Anyway, in a forum, the idea is that the various opinions are confronted in a fair way and without animosity. That is certainly the way you are contributing to it as well.

To all: please keep discussions fair, exchange ideas and don't kill the messengers. That's all.

[convair]

Thanks for your contrbution no-nonsense. This forum needs members who know what they're talking about (unlike me ) or at least are careful with their statements (I keep trying ). Just ignore the criticisms of people who don't (can't?) read your posts properly!

Thanks to you, we know now that nothing is firmly decided yet but that there will most probaly be change to the current 9W operations in BRU.

By the way, how many employees does 9W have in BRU?

[teach]

I already regret I joined. Certainly as an insider, I probably shouldn't be here. Everything I say will be held against me. So why bother any further?

Don't let some guy even newer than you get to you. Most people here appreciate your contributions, but wherever you go, there'll always be 'that guy'. Know that he does not represent the site, or its members.

[Jetter]

Why this aggressive tone? I am only trying to help out here. Without jumping the conclusions, spreading rumours or claiming anything. I prudently stick to the facts, so should you. Rumours are no facts.

I didn't mean to be aggressive (and don't' think I was). If you stick to the facts this I don't understand:

You just said

Will the scissors hub continue to exist as we know it? No.
Will jobs be lost? Yes.

While earlier today you said:

No operational changes are planned or to be expected.

I don't see how that makes sense, or something has changed just today?

Also still interested to know what the 'official source' was that confirmed Jets presence at BRU just a few days ago.

[lumumba]

Why this aggressive tone? I am only trying to help out here. Without jumping the conclusions, spreading rumours or claiming anything. I prudently stick to the facts, so should you. Rumours are no facts.

I didn't mean to be aggressive (and don't' think I was). If you stick to the facts this I don't understand:

You just said

Will the scissors hub continue to exist as we know it? No.
Will jobs be lost? Yes.

While earlier today you said:

No operational changes are planned or to be expected.

I don't see how that makes sense, or something has changed just today?

Also still interested to know what the 'official source' was that confirmed Jets presence at BRU just a few days ago.

Amsterdam Schiphol slot allocations are for W15. However, no operational changes are planned or to be expected during W15. Is that clear enough?

Now you are aggressive the question was worth asking or to be clarified .
Also don't forget that you stated one day before they said they will maybe leave they will not.
You have to put everything in perspective .

[lumumba]

Thanks very much for this clarifications and yes let's wait and see.
Regards

[Kapitein]

As far as it's trustfull ofcourse, all slots for 9W are still requested for Summer '16 in BRU

[Jetter]

At the same time SN requested YYZ slots, those seem to only make sense if 9W leaves BRU (or just BRU-YYZ).

Does anyone know if SN requested those slots in the past years? If not, that would be a strong indication that 9W leaving is more serious this time than the earlier times that was rumored.

[Conti764]

At the same time SN requested YYZ slots, those seem to only make sense if 9W leaves BRU (or just BRU-YYZ).

Does anyone know if SN requested those slots in the past years? If not, that would be a strong indication that 9W leaving is more serious this time than the earlier times that was rumored.

Requesting slots doesn't mean much... If 9W decides to stay, SN doesn't have to pick them up. Even if SN didn't request them the past years, it might only mean they want to be ready since they don't know either what 9W will do in the end.

The same for UA's second EWR rotation...

[BRU]

"Belga release today:

De vakbonden op Brussels Airport leggen zich volgens vakbondssecretaris Olivier Van Camp (BBTK) neer bij de plannen van de Indiase luchtvaartmaatschappij Jet Airways om Brussels Airport te verlaten. Directie en vakbonden vergaderden al twee keer in het kader van de informatie- en consultatiefase uit de wet-Renault voor collectief ontslag. Die fase wordt afgesloten. Volgende week gaan de besprekingen van start over het sociaal plan voor de 33 getroffen werknemers.

"De directie blijft bij haar intentie om te vertrekken uit ons land omwille van het gebrek aan rendabiliteit. Om die reden werden de activiteiten de afgelopen jaren al afgebouwd. Tijdens het overleg heeft men bevestigd dat men onlangs drie slots voor vliegtuigbewegingen heeft verworven op Schiphol in Amsterdam. Alhoewel men ontkent dat deze verhuis hiermee te maken heeft, is het volgens ons duidelijk dat men de activiteiten naar deze luchthaven zal verhuizen. De verhuis is gepland voor eind maart 2016, maar het is niet uitgesloten dat men vroeger vertrekt", aldus Van Camp.

De 33 werknemers die momenteel op Brussels Airport voor Jet Airways werken worden getroffen door de sluiting. "De directie heeft inderdaad bevestigd dat men alle activiteiten wil verhuizen, dus ook het salesdepartment en dergelijke. Het gaat om acht expats die terug naar India vertrekken en 25 Belgen van wie enkelen met een contract van bepaalde duur. Wat de consequenties zijn van de verhuis voor werknemers in andere bedrijven op Brussels Airport die werken in bijvoorbeeld de bagageafhandeling en caterin,g is nog onduidelijk. Dat zal onder meer afhangen van het feit of de slots worden overgenomen door andere luchtvaartmaatschappijen", zegt Van Camp nog."

In French: http://www.lalibre.be/economie/actualit ... 6ff8fdaa88

Seems that it is clear to the unions that Jet Airways is leaving BRU and that all activities will move to AMS. The fact they only have 3 slots out of AMS shows the cooperation with KLM and Delta, taking over the flights to the States from AMS.

[sean1982]

Hopefully it will stimulate SN to expand the long haul even more on top of the allready planned expansion. Now is the time

[b720]

It is indeed an opportunity for SN.. increasing capacity to JFK, maybe splitting YYZ and YUL with AC, and hopefully starting BOM?