Brussels Airlines introduces free meals/drinks in Blight

[sn26567]

BA to the UK, LX to Switzerland, even LH to Germany. All offering better service for similar prices.

BA has just decided to extend their "hand-baggage-only" fare to all short-haul flights. viewtopic.php?p=287410#p287410

This trend to reduce service to reduce cost will progressively come to all short-haul flights, I'm afraid...

[tolipanebas]

Indeed, André..

the standard business model for European shorthaul is not going to be that of a Ryanair, nor that of a SWISS on the other end of the market, it's going to be something in between, as already used by U2 and some others.

As time goes by, you'll see more and more European airlines converge to that kind of a 'a la carte' product: LH is currently in the process of shifting all of it's European flights other than those which pass through their 2 mega-hubs MUC and FRA and feed their huge longhaul network to their subsidiary Germanwings while Iberia is doing exactly the same with vueling and those who won't set up an independant no frills branch will become one themselves on much of their shorthaul routes (BA for instance), whereas on the other side of the spectrum, airlines are trying to break out of their pure low cost niche by 'upgrading' their bare product and make it appear more valuable: think FR's recent charm offensive for instance...

Seriously, the middle ground is where the biggest market share and the biggest profits are, because although people don't want to pay for what they deem needless luxury items on shorthaul, they still very much want to pay for all sort of extra services which offer them great added value, yet contrary to before, they now want to do so by choice iso on a complementary basis like before because they no longer want to pay also for any unused extras, even if in the end they end up paying more money for less extras...

[sean1982]

And this "a la carte" service is what Ryanair introduced in Europe, and up untill recently was "ridiculous and completely useless for the clientele that Bru.Air want to attract".

Now it suddenly is the new way to go? Strange U-turns you make in a matter of weeks. If you want that à la carte service to be succesfull for your airline, you're going to have to severly reduce your base fare, otherwise people feel ripped off to pay even more on an allready high fare.

[Inquirer]

Hi Sean,

It's not because an airline introduces supplements, that they need to go all the way to become a Ryanair?

I am sure you'll agree there's a world of difference between Easyjet and Ryan Air for instance, notably in their base product (premium airports, higher frequencies, flex tickets) and I do share the idea of tolepanibas that the trend seems to be to converge towards Easyjet's business model from both sides of the market, those positioned above, as well as those positioned below.

As I've said it a few times already: I fly SN not because of the free newspaper or the meal, I fly them because they have multiple flights daily to their destinations and offer ticket flexibility. Any airline that offers that can be considered in corporate contracts of most businesses, and it seems more and more airlines are trying to tailor themselves to fit those standards of corprorate requirements perfectly, trimming or indeed adding features as required?

[papysn]

Hi,

I totally agree with flightmate...
Brussels airlines positioning is bad,even nonexistant...
Nobody takes sn by choice,they are not the cheapest (and will never be as structure was inherited by sabena,it is impossible to compete with light structures type ryan or easy) so they dont attract price related customers.
They also dońt want to invest to be in the best (except new c cl on long haul)so they dońt attract the high yield pax...
They are stranded with the only "captiv" pax willing to go directely from bru to destination.
The only way up for them is investment,but to get money they have to get rid of the "old"shareolders and be sold to Lh...

[Inquirer]

If you believe there's still any meaningful market left for anything other than good frequency and compete flexibily at a fair price, I am afraid you are not sensing the pulse correctly on intra-European aviation these days, especially from a corporate station like BRU.

At work, we have an explicit ban on C class for flights under 6 hours, as well as a ban on flights with certain airlines (not naming them, as I am not looking for controversy), but we may consider Easyjet for instance and although rare I occasionally do use them to BSL as an alternative for ZRH.

[FlightMate]

Tolip, you talk about SN following a trend amongst other european airlines. But the main point is: can they compete?

All I see, is that they want to do the same as others, but not as good, or not as cheap.

Without LH, we wouldn't even have business class in Europe anymore, just b.light - b.flex.

I believe SN should be offering a premium product for people who can afford it, and a bare minimum product for those who can't, but at rock bottom fares.

A two-classes (or even 3-classes) product: ryanair class, LX-class, and yes, if you want, something in between, some economy premium (economy with flexibility and food).
You will say, SN already has such product, being B.business, b.light and b.flex, but I believe they should take them to the extreme. And take example on airlines that make money.
Ryanair-style in b.light: start charging for luggages, start offering tickets at 5 euros (even only a few), charge for credit card, for no printed ticket.
And LX-style: get some high value passengers, and retain their loyalty (superior lounges, champange, etc...). These pax might not bring a lot of money by themselves, but some are CEOs of small or mid size companies and that could push their choice of an airline for their employees travel plans.

They shouldn't try to have all pax travelling the same way.
People are different, they have differnt needs.

Edit: at your work maybe, hence a good eco+ product (like b.flex) is nice to have.

[Air Key West]

The more legacy, traditional or "full service" (?) airlines will look like LCCs, the less reasons there will be to fly them, except if they offer good frequencies, which they don't always do (b.air has not done enough to develop its BRU hub , the VEX mentality is difficult to get rid of apparently, although new people arrive (and leave).

Whether you fly b.light or b.flex ex BRU, my advice is to buy a good sandwich from the recently opened Exki Belgian food-outlet (departure level landside) which will cost you 4.50 euros, just 50 cents more than the poor quality sandwiches sold by b.air at 4 euros. B.air offers you a choice of two sandwiches, Exki about eight and they are also better than Starbucks.

[liege-bierset]

Or fly with "Waffles Airlines"...

[Flanker2]

I believe SN should be offering a premium product for people who can afford it, and a bare minimum product for those who can't, but at rock bottom fares.

A two-classes (or even 3-classes) product: ryanair class, LX-class, and yes, if you want, something in between, some economy premium (economy with flexibility and food).
You will say, SN already has such product, being B.business, b.light and b.flex, but I believe they should take them to the extreme. And take example on airlines that make money.

I'm glad that someone else also feels this way.

I think that SN needs to adapt its hard and soft product to offer a more exclusive business class at more or less the same fares as now and indeed go ultra-lowcost on the last rows of B.light. In-between, they can keep the B.flex as a flexible economy offering, with the possibility to upgrade to business class with miles when available or to the highest milers when the economy class is overbooked.

I think that such a move will have premium people going out of their own way to fly SN even for intra-EU.
This way, SN will be leading the market instead of catching up with it and become the quality carrier of choice for travel within Europe. It's a move that will require significant investments, but I think that the impact on SN's financials and brand will be significant, short- and long-term.

The way I imagine it is:
2 rows of 4 seats on A319/A320 and RJ100, on the Q400's optionally 2 rows of 3 seats.

[b720]

The catch is that often B Light fares are close to EUR 300 for a 1 hour flight. That is not
rock bottom price! for that price, a glass of water, and maybe a piece of chocolate
with coffee will be appreciated!

[sn26567]

The catch is that often B Light fares are close to EUR 300 for a 1 hour flight.

True, but on the same flight some people, perhaps sitting on the next seat, have paid only EUR 49. Flight attendants have no way to tell who paid how much, and therefore, same service to everybody in the same class.

[RoMax]

The catch is that often B Light fares are close to EUR 300 for a 1 hour flight. That is not
rock bottom price! for that price, a glass of water, and maybe a piece of chocolate
with coffee will be appreciated!

Not every LCC ticket is rock bottom price either. You can easily pay over 200 or even 300 euro's flying Ryanair.

[FlightMate]

Of course, the last tickets sold on a ryanair flight can be expensive.
But they have better yield management, and better cost structure.

Everybody I know think ryanair is always cheaper.
That's why SN should reverse the trend. And start offering (and promoting) some very cheap tickets.
100euros is not cheap, compared to what ryanair offers.

Before the 'no service' idea, in 2007 (?), tickets were already sold at 49 euros one-way.
When vex has been taken over, shareholders wanted to turn sn into a low cost carrier.
But tickets were still selling at 49 eur. So basically, passengers were getting less value for the same price.

I just wish they had taken this opportunity to advertise some tickets at 5-20 euros.

[OO-ITR]

Why are people so obsessed that SN has to be like RYR. Let Ryanair be Ryanair and SN be SN.
Obviously RYR has other rules than SN (like seen on recent TV shows) and that is the way it should be.

[FlightMate]

Because obviously, being SN only doesn't work?

They don't have to be like ryanair, they can be something else, but they need to adapt.
If you believe cutting frequencies while cutting the service will suffice, I wish them good luck.

Like some have said loudly here, maybe there's no place for SN in this market?
I believe there is, but in another form.
High yielding flight to AFI, connecting to America, offering superior product over american airlines being the main basis.

[Didymus]

SN could become more like easyJet, not Ryanair. I thought that was quite obvious.

I've flown Germanwings last month and I quite like their concept. If you go for the Basic fare, you get nothing but an assigned seat. If you buy the marginally more expensive Smart fare however, you get a reserved seat with more legroom, a non-alcoholic drink, a snack box and checked-in luggage.