[note of admin sn26567: this topic has been split from this one on China routes]
In the first part of the report they talk about the possibility of a link to South Africa.
Any hint ?
FB.
A new route from BRU to South Africa?
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Flying-Belgian
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I think Hainan is flying with former SLR B767 equipment. So I guess this plane might find his way back "HOME".
Imagine Hainan opening a BRU-base with Belgian crew....
Anyway my interest goes to the South Africa rumour. After Sabena's bankruptcy there used to be rumours about Nationwide to start up a BRUJNB service besides LGWJNB. Today they only serve LGW so far.
This might become very interesting the next few months...a new link between South Africa and Belgium by Nationwide, South African, or even SN.....??!!
Imagine Hainan opening a BRU-base with Belgian crew....
Anyway my interest goes to the South Africa rumour. After Sabena's bankruptcy there used to be rumours about Nationwide to start up a BRUJNB service besides LGWJNB. Today they only serve LGW so far.
This might become very interesting the next few months...a new link between South Africa and Belgium by Nationwide, South African, or even SN.....??!!
Yep that is right they fly some ex SLR planes as well. 2 B767's if I'm not mistaken.TWA wrote:I think Hainan is flying with former SLR B767 equipment. So I guess this plane might find his way back "HOME".
Imagine Hainan opening a BRU-base with Belgian crew....
I didn't knew Nationwide was operating a flight to LGW ? With what airplane ? They don't have long haul planes as far as I know....After Sabena's bankruptcy there used to be rumours about Nationwide to start up a BRUJNB service besides LGWJNB. Today they only serve LGW so far.
It might indeed become very interesting. BTW I don't see SAA starting ops to BRU.This might become very interesting the next few months...a new link between South Africa and Belgium by Nationwide, South African, or even SN.....??!!
Chris
Last edited by Avro on 28 Feb 2005, 21:14, edited 1 time in total.
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sn-remember
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@TWA
The route sounds promising...but SN has not the a/c to fly it
And the african policy of SN is not clear to me ...
What seems clear however is that the time is ripe for significant business developement and investment .
So if SN is disabled, then I certainly would welcome SAA...
Instead of studying a 2nd daily frequency to fra as they do, why not seriously investigate putting in place a daily link to bru (snba codesharing?) I believe it could rapidly become a great success ;o)
Yes SN...This might become very interesting the next few months...a new link between South Africa and Belgium by Nationwide, South African, or even SN.....??!!
The route sounds promising...but SN has not the a/c to fly it
And the african policy of SN is not clear to me ...
What seems clear however is that the time is ripe for significant business developement and investment .
So if SN is disabled, then I certainly would welcome SAA...
Instead of studying a 2nd daily frequency to fra as they do, why not seriously investigate putting in place a daily link to bru (snba codesharing?) I believe it could rapidly become a great success ;o)
I aswell think SN should open more longhaul routes, more to Africa (eg South Africa and more in Central africa and northern aswell = all of africa) and towards the asian market SN should make an investment.
With this they would get higher loadfactors on their european routes.
And why not look at combined pax and freight services to these parts of the world with the A330 or even 777 or B747-4combi like KLM does.
I certainly think their is a market for this...
regards.
hope somebody of the SN management is reading this.
With this they would get higher loadfactors on their european routes.
And why not look at combined pax and freight services to these parts of the world with the A330 or even 777 or B747-4combi like KLM does.
I certainly think their is a market for this...
regards.
hope somebody of the SN management is reading this.
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sn-remember
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website-info
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The Sobelair South African farce (oops sorry Service) was useless. I tried several times to make bookings to JNB, each time you go to the website enter your travel dates and that created an email that SLR may or may not have replied to in time. The last time I tried I heard nothing for 2 weeks, by which time I booked someone else and in the run up to my departure date I then received several more mails from SLR offering cheap tickets.........
Also in JNB their sales agent was Nationwide, except they didn't advertise and didn't like to sell you a ticket.
Chris, As for Nationwide, they currently have 1 B767 operting to LGW, a second aircraft has been rumoured for several months to open up a Munich service, BUT they are on the market for 2 MD11's or A340's......., plus their first B737-500 is now in service (ex Sabena)
To try and make money on a JNB service ex BRU you will need to be sharp, you will go head to head with Emirates who are the cheapest way to South Africa. In November 04 I paid Euro396 incl taxes for BRU-LGW-DXB-JNB return. It took 18 hours but it was damn cheap.
Rgds
Tony
Also in JNB their sales agent was Nationwide, except they didn't advertise and didn't like to sell you a ticket.
Chris, As for Nationwide, they currently have 1 B767 operting to LGW, a second aircraft has been rumoured for several months to open up a Munich service, BUT they are on the market for 2 MD11's or A340's......., plus their first B737-500 is now in service (ex Sabena)
To try and make money on a JNB service ex BRU you will need to be sharp, you will go head to head with Emirates who are the cheapest way to South Africa. In November 04 I paid Euro396 incl taxes for BRU-LGW-DXB-JNB return. It took 18 hours but it was damn cheap.
Rgds
Tony
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Sabena_690
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I think the only way to attract the high-yield business traveler is by offering a daily nonstop flight from Brussels to JNB, but as the Sabena experiency learned, the market for such a service is probably too limited. These services were almost always fully booked, but apparently no money was made on these services, which could mean that there was not enough business-traffic.
Added to that, to operate such a service in a realiable way, you woul almost need two long-haul planes, which is out of reach for SN Brussels Airlines.
With the experience SN Brussels has as the successor of Sabena, I think they would have established a JNB-service a long time ago already if it would have proven to be a successful (i.e. money-making) service.
Added to that, to operate such a service in a realiable way, you woul almost need two long-haul planes, which is out of reach for SN Brussels Airlines.
With the experience SN Brussels has as the successor of Sabena, I think they would have established a JNB-service a long time ago already if it would have proven to be a successful (i.e. money-making) service.
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Bruspotter
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Hello
Great to hear more possibilities again! Even if they were just rumours...it means that BRU is still getting more popular.
Hainan airways would be great...nice plane...isn't he painted at the Sabena Technics? Saw pictures of it at www.airliners.net a pretty long time ago.
About the South African link;
Well Nationwide either KLM would be good...but i would still find it better if South African airways would come to Brussels....GREAT AIRLINE!!!!
I really love those colors...imagine a SAA 744/332/342 or maybe even one of their new A340-600's (alto that possibility is rather very little).
But anyway even one of them is an improvement and so that's really great!
---Maybe One day BRU is a real big airport....who knows... 8O ------
Best regards: Yannick
Great to hear more possibilities again! Even if they were just rumours...it means that BRU is still getting more popular.
Hainan airways would be great...nice plane...isn't he painted at the Sabena Technics? Saw pictures of it at www.airliners.net a pretty long time ago.
About the South African link;
Well Nationwide either KLM would be good...but i would still find it better if South African airways would come to Brussels....GREAT AIRLINE!!!!
I really love those colors...imagine a SAA 744/332/342 or maybe even one of their new A340-600's (alto that possibility is rather very little).
But anyway even one of them is an improvement and so that's really great!
---Maybe One day BRU is a real big airport....who knows... 8O ------
Best regards: Yannick
please brothers, be realistic. I paid 850 euro (all in) with BA BRU-LHR-JNB in economy in February and that was cheap. Iberia from Dus was 500 euro but I dislike Iberia a lot. see Skytrax.
SN had a flight , well, theoretically. They did an advertisement: 450 euro JNB. Wow. I phoned them imediately, just to be said that the flight would be stopped 3 weeks later. Why did they pay for the add?
All flights to JNB are full, why can't SNBA make money out of it? Because it is SNBA, just like that. My BA flight was full as well. 100% utterly full.
Nationwide? I saw the 767 being prepared in JNB for the LGW flight. Sober plane. In South-Africa, Nationwide has a very good reputation. They serve a real hot meal on the CPT-JNB route. But booking is impossible with a foreign creditcard. Only Kulula works well for foreigners.
1Time sends you a faxform and the SAA site is useless for bookings.
I disliked to use Emirates (from DUS) because of the long travelling time. Their seatpitch is also not great. but BA isn't any better.
Next time to JNB I might take Air Namibia with the A340 replacement for the the MD-11. Ethiopean has also a very good reputation, departs from AMS.
Advice : make a BRU connection with no extra charge for go to JNB and return from CPT and visa versa. People will love it. Similar for Vietnam visitors who can fly in at HCM and depart from Hanoi.
SN had a flight , well, theoretically. They did an advertisement: 450 euro JNB. Wow. I phoned them imediately, just to be said that the flight would be stopped 3 weeks later. Why did they pay for the add?
All flights to JNB are full, why can't SNBA make money out of it? Because it is SNBA, just like that. My BA flight was full as well. 100% utterly full.
Nationwide? I saw the 767 being prepared in JNB for the LGW flight. Sober plane. In South-Africa, Nationwide has a very good reputation. They serve a real hot meal on the CPT-JNB route. But booking is impossible with a foreign creditcard. Only Kulula works well for foreigners.
1Time sends you a faxform and the SAA site is useless for bookings.
I disliked to use Emirates (from DUS) because of the long travelling time. Their seatpitch is also not great. but BA isn't any better.
Next time to JNB I might take Air Namibia with the A340 replacement for the the MD-11. Ethiopean has also a very good reputation, departs from AMS.
Advice : make a BRU connection with no extra charge for go to JNB and return from CPT and visa versa. People will love it. Similar for Vietnam visitors who can fly in at HCM and depart from Hanoi.
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sn-remember
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Thx Regi putting things straight..
The BRU-JNB link is missing badly that's also my opinion.
And my experience with the sabena flight to jnb was that it was always full.
But I suppose that snba can live without it ? A daily such l/h route would cost 1.5 a/c ;o) so coupled with another hypothetical daily l/h it would mean 3 a/c to purchase one way or another..It seems beyond the present business plan of snba I am afraid...
So back to Nationwide or good old SAA hypothesis...
Whatever the operator, the caution principle advises to start a 2-desti daily route such as jnb-bru-bhm ? If/when the success is at the corner, then comes the time to investiget the split of the flight into 2 daily ops ?
Caution and ambition are the key to success ;o) but maybe we are all dreaming a bit here ...
The BRU-JNB link is missing badly that's also my opinion.
And my experience with the sabena flight to jnb was that it was always full.
But I suppose that snba can live without it ? A daily such l/h route would cost 1.5 a/c ;o) so coupled with another hypothetical daily l/h it would mean 3 a/c to purchase one way or another..It seems beyond the present business plan of snba I am afraid...
So back to Nationwide or good old SAA hypothesis...
Whatever the operator, the caution principle advises to start a 2-desti daily route such as jnb-bru-bhm ? If/when the success is at the corner, then comes the time to investiget the split of the flight into 2 daily ops ?
Caution and ambition are the key to success ;o) but maybe we are all dreaming a bit here ...
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sn-remember
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I must add frankly that personnally I would'nt recommend snba opening a bru-jnb link now. Because the priority of any airline (apart from being profitable) is to build a meaningful network. It must be commercially tenable and as much integrated as possible.
So if snba nourishes some intercontinental traffic ambitions (which is not that obvious to me) it should try to define its business priorities and develop them coherently.
Africa has come as an inheritance and it looks natural to develop it wisely. A 1-day rotation time is the rule here in a first stage and I believe there is room enough for growth in this space. Non-stop flights to SA could come later in a 2nd stage development cycle.
Serving a new continent as well as starting very long haul flights (more than 1-day rotation time) is a big move and must be planned carefully because in my view if such a move is done, it must be done with a broader approach that is a real network development and not just 1 link to 1 city whatever the immediate profit here might be expected.
Also comparing LCCs like ex-Sobelair with snba on a given route (ie. bru-jnb) is vain because they are fishing in different waters (up to now) and their networks are built differently.
However imho there is obvious sense for airlines like SAA or Nationwide to start a bru-jnb connexion simply because it comes natural in the logic of their network !
Greetz
So if snba nourishes some intercontinental traffic ambitions (which is not that obvious to me) it should try to define its business priorities and develop them coherently.
Africa has come as an inheritance and it looks natural to develop it wisely. A 1-day rotation time is the rule here in a first stage and I believe there is room enough for growth in this space. Non-stop flights to SA could come later in a 2nd stage development cycle.
Serving a new continent as well as starting very long haul flights (more than 1-day rotation time) is a big move and must be planned carefully because in my view if such a move is done, it must be done with a broader approach that is a real network development and not just 1 link to 1 city whatever the immediate profit here might be expected.
Also comparing LCCs like ex-Sobelair with snba on a given route (ie. bru-jnb) is vain because they are fishing in different waters (up to now) and their networks are built differently.
However imho there is obvious sense for airlines like SAA or Nationwide to start a bru-jnb connexion simply because it comes natural in the logic of their network !
Greetz
When I flew to JNB many years ago on a Sabena B747, there was a stop in Kinshasa. And Sabena had traffic rights on both sectors. That was a nice way to fill the plane and make a profit, even if the wecond sector was not profitable.
I am not sure whether such a routing would still be allowed now, but SN BA should give it some consideration. After all, all SN BA FIH flights now make a stop elsewhere in Africa.
I am not sure whether such a routing would still be allowed now, but SN BA should give it some consideration. After all, all SN BA FIH flights now make a stop elsewhere in Africa.
André
ex Sabena #26567
ex Sabena #26567