EgyptAir Flight MS804 CDG-CAI disappears above the Mediterranean

[Passenger]

They have probably only located the recorders (which is good news off course).

Ocean dept at the crash location is 2.700m - 3.000m, thus impossible for the military search vessels to get them. Only specialized companies like Smit Tak (http://smit.com) or Fugro (https://www.fugro.com) can retrieve the recorders.

[Bralo20]

CBS has just announced that the black boxes have been retrieved. Rather surprising since little else seems to have been found, except for some seats and suitcases.

This has already been denied.

Retrieved would be a little quick when you know the depth there... Located maybe but even that's denied.

[sn26567]

They have probably only located the recorders (which is good news off course).

"Located" is indeed the right word (rather than "found"):

BREAKING: Data recorders for EgyptAir Flight 804 located close to area where human remains, debris have been found

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/egyptair-fl ... d=24736959

[Bralo20]

Nice theory, Bralo20. But it is strange that nobody else mentions the ACARS messages other than those about smoke. If you look at the press, they only concentrate on those smoke issues. And even from specialists we don't hear anything else. Why such omissions? Your theory is quite a real possibility.

We'll have to wait for more information from the black boxes or from other debris to know more, I guess.

What's the most interesting for the press:

A) A window sensor fault
B) Smoke detection

So from the media's point of view there's only one interesting thing about the ACARS messages: smoke.

Regarding the specialists: no clue, haven't been home today so I didn't followed the news today. Maybe it's not interesting enough?

[Passenger]

Regarding the specialists: no clue, haven't been home today so I didn't followed the news today. Maybe it's not interesting enough?

When the specialists come online, I have this question for them: if it was a bomb, shouldn't the ACARS had sent out the message "loss of cabin pressure" as first error? After all, when terrorists would place a bomb onboard, one may assume that they make it powerfull enough to cause a crash, not to cause just an onboard fire.

[Ozzie1969]

Regarding the specialists: no clue, haven't been home today so I didn't followed the news today. Maybe it's not interesting enough?

When the specialists come online, I have this question for them: if it was a bomb, shouldn't the ACARS had sent out the message "loss of cabin pressure" as first error? After all, when terrorists would place a bomb onboard, one may assume that they make it powerfull enough to cause a crash, not to cause just an onboard fire.

Unless their bomb malfunctioned and only caused a fire instead of the intended explosion.

[Flanker2]

If it was a bomb located where Bralo20 suggests, exploding with such power as to pierce through the cockpit floor and through the F/O's window, IMO it should have done more damage to the avionics located nearby right from the start and the cascade of ACARS messages shoud have been longer given the long timespan of the ACARS messages.
There are also lot of sensors in that area from static ports to TAT sensors and those should have sent failure signals too.

The more plausible explanation is possibly a fire starting at the windshield heat wiring, caused by a short or an inadequate (re-)wiring. Anything which heats tends to draw a lot of current, so carries a higher risk of fire when shorted or if the wire was inadequately spliced or replaced by a thinner gauge wire.
The windshield heat wiring would be close or attached to windshield position sensors' wiring, so it could be that the short occurred between these wires or a fire started on the heat wires and jumped to nearby wiring.
It could also be a fire starting from something else and igniting those wires.
It doesn't neessarily have to be the windshields themselves, especially given the interval between the first windshield warnings and the later ones.

Whatever happened must have been either catastrophic or underestimated by the pilots until it became unmanageable, as they didn't make any distress calls.

Whether the fire was caused by a bomb remains to be seen.

[FLYAIR10]

If it was a bomb located where Bralo20 suggests, exploding with such power as to pierce through the cockpit floor and through the F/O's window, IMO it should have done more damage to the avionics located nearby right from the start and the cascade of ACARS messages shoud have been longer given the long timespan of the ACARS messages.
There are also lot of sensors in that area from static ports to TAT sensors and those should have sent failure signals too.

Maybe it was mentioned somewhere in the specific thread,but what were the ACARS-messages received from the MH B777 shot down above Ukraine? If i'm not mistaken there were also a lot of impacts of missile fragments in the cockpit area...Any similarities?

[Passenger]

Just a few hours after after the A320 crashed into the ocean, only a bit of debris (and, with all respect, a few human remains) were recovered. Luckily, this discovery made it possible to locate the crash site and the location of the recorders and what remains from the plane.

So one can assume that rescuers found nothing from the Malaysian B777 (MH370) after a few days. Too much time was lost there before the Malaysian government (= the Malaysian Army) told foreign searchers and civilian rescuers what they knew from their radar data.

[Passenger]

Deep Ocean Search Ltd has been appointed for the search & recovery mission.

They have experience with the search for MH370:
http://www.deepoceansearch.com/MH370.htm

Source : press release French BEA - 28 mai 2016

Les autorités égyptiennes ont signé hier, 27 mai, un protocole d'entente avec la société internationale Deep Ocean Search (DOS) pour compléter le dispositif de recherches et de récupération des deux enregistreurs de vol. Point de situation n° 3 publié par les autorités égyptiennes:

The Ministry of Civil Aviation signed a memorandum of understanding today with the international company Deep Ocean Search “DOS” to carry out the search and retrieval process of the two data recorders of the A320, downed last week in the Mediterranean. DOS is one of the best companies in this field; thatuses the most advanced technology in reading the signals of the two boxes in addition to its ability to conduct extensive sonar scan for the search area. It is worth mentioning that the French vessel used in the search process is equipped with Alseamar, which is considered as one of the best equipment used in this field. On the other hand, the investigation committee has started studying the information received from theGreek air traffic control about the accident; more information of the records of the radar that had followed the path of the plane before the accident, is expected to be also received."

Source - French BEA:
https://www.bea.aero/fr/les-enquetes/le ... -mai-9h00/

Source - CAA Egypt:
http://www.civilaviation.gov.eg/News/ne ... _5_16.html

[Passenger]

00:26Z 3044 ANTI ICE R WINDOW
00:26Z 561200 R SLIDING WINDOW SENSOR
00:26Z 2600 SMOKE LAVATORY SMOKE
00:27Z 2600 AVIONICS SMOKE
00:28Z 561100 R FIXED WINDOW SENSOR
00:29Z 2200 AUTO FLT FCU 2 FAULT
00:29Z 2700 F/CTL SEC 3 FAULT

Coincidence of course, but there is another Avionics Smoke incident:

On 25th May 2016, an Air Canada Embraer ERJ-190 from Boston to Toronto was enroute at FL360 about 270nm eastsoutheast of Toronto when both integrated drive generators (IDGs) dropped offline, the RAM Air Turbine deployed automatically. The crew declared emergency with Boston Air Traffic Control Center reporting problems with the engines and navigation, descended the aircraft to FL240, worked the related checklists and were able to reconnect both IDGs. The aircraft landed safely on Toronto's runway 23 about one hour after the failure of both IDGs. The Canadian TSB reported that maintenance found extensive fire and smoke damage to the Right Integrated Control Center (located in the electronics bay aka avionics bay). However, there was no cockpit indication of fire or smoke as there is no detection capability in that area.

Source - more info:
http://avherald.com/h?article=4990d70c&opt=0

[Passenger]

"...The French ship La Place received underwater signals suspected to originate from a black box belonging to missing EgyptAir Flight 804, Egypt's Civil Aviation ministry said in statement..."

Source: Bloomberg:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... istry-says

Me thinks it could be yet another blooper or lie from an Egyptian official source.

[Passenger]

France 3: "the aircraft had to return after take off, 3 times during the 24 hours before MS-804"

France 3 : "...L'Airbus A320 du vol MS804 d'EgyptAir qui s'est abîmé en mer Méditérranée, dans la nuit du mercredi 18 au jeudi 19 mai, a été contraint de faire demi-tour à au moins trois reprises au cours des 24 heures précédant le crash, selon les informations de France 3 recueillies mercredi 1er juin. Ceci pour procéder à des vérifications techniques. Contrairement à ce que nous indiquions dans un premier temps, il n'a pas effectué d'atterrissage d'urgence proprement dit..."

http://www.francetvinfo.fr/monde/europe ... 78855.html

That is what FR3 says. My opinion:

Quite sad actually that some press has no more respect for the relatives, by launching such wild stories. I remember I had looked at the previous flights on Flightradar.com just before MS-804: there was nothing unusal. Actually, SU-GCC flew around a lot, to/from airports without night curfew.

Even Air Koryo (North Korea) would ground an aircraft after a second return - and now France 3 wants us to believe this Airbus had to return three times to fix something?

https://planefinder.net/data/aircraft/SU-GCC

[sn26567]

Egypt has indeed denied the rumours (but apparently for France 3 it's more than rumours) that the aircraft had any problems in the previous flights of the day before the crash.

[sn26567]

At current pace and trajectory, deep water salvage team should arrive in EgyptAir MS804 search zone by tomorrow Thursday.

Image of the sea equivalent of FlightRadar 24:

[sn26567]

A second ship equipped with specialist search devices will join the hunt for the "black box" flight recorders and the wreckage of an EgyptAir jet on Friday, the head of France's air-accident investigation agency said today (Thursday).

Egypt has chartered a second vessel operated by Mauritius-based Deep Ocean Search, equipped with sonar equipment and an underwater vehicle.

The first ship continues to pick up locator signals from the first recorder, whose location had been narrowed to within 1 to 2 kilometres.

More from Reuters: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-egypt ... SKCN0YV0R2

[sn26567]

U.S. joins EgyptAir crash investigation as clock ticks

U.S. air-safety experts joined an investigation into the cause of the crash of an EgyptAir plane last month that killed all 66 people on board as the clock ticks on locating the all-important black boxes. The Airbus A320’s data recorders are expected to continue emitting signals until June 24. Without the pings, which were initially detected two weeks ago, locating the devices becomes more difficult.

The U.S. National Transport Safety Board asked to join the Egypt-led investigation because the plane’s engines were built by a consortium led by American company Pratt & Whitney, the Egyptian ministry said.

The French ship La Place has received signals from the seabed in the search area, and the John Lethbridge, a vessel from Deep Ocean Search Ltd., has joined the hunt to scan the ocean floor for the voice recorders.

Source: Bloomberg

[Passenger]

BBC reports that an Egyptian source reports that the wreckage has been found/located at 3.000m dept.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-36543969

[sn26567]

The Cockpit Voice Recorder has been retrieved

John Lethbridge, the vessel contracted by the Egyptian Government to join the search for the wreckage of the A320 that was downed in the Mediterranean last month, has found the Cockpit voice recorder.

The Cockpit voice recorder was retrieved in several stages as it was damaged but the vessel equipment managed to pick up the memory unit, which is considered as the most important part of the above-mentioned recorder.

The General prosecution was then notified and accordingly issued its decision to hand it over to the technical investigation committee to carry out analysis and unload the voice conversations.

Transfer process of the Cockpit voice recorder from the vessel to Alexandria is under process then it will be received by members from the general prosecution and the investigation committee.

Cairo, 16th of June 2016

[Passenger]

The Cockpit voice recorder was retrieved in several stages as it was damaged but the vessel equipment managed to pick up the memory unit, which is considered as the most important part of the above-mentioned recorder.

With a fully destroyed CVR, can one conclude that impact into the ocean must have been very severe, thus loss of control at high altitude?