Ryanair in 2016

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Acid-drop
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Re: Ryanair in 2016

Post by Acid-drop »

Stij wrote: CRL, keep the plans for the extra terminal in the fridge, the expansion is in BRU.
It's funny how interpretation can vary.
My understanding was : FR can't expand in CRL because the terminal reached its max capacity.
So FR has no choice : they had to use BRU.
And once the new terminal is there, they will continue the growth in CRL.

If I was them, i'd focus on business destination from BRU, where people wants good schedule and can pay the price for it. They won't mind traffic.
CRL can be bad schedule, good price and no traffic, no stress for families.
But that's probably too simple, right ? :)
My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.

Stij
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Re: Ryanair in 2016

Post by Stij »

Don't get me wrong! I have nothing against CRL... Subsidies is another thing! :-)

I could be wrong, but before FR started flying from BRU, I believe more FR planes were based in CRL then now... so they could grow even further without the new terminal.

Sometime I have the impression the expansion of CRL and LGG are more there to please the large Hainault and Liège building contractors then based on real needs...

Cheers,

Stij

Acid-drop
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Re: Ryanair in 2016

Post by Acid-drop »

I could be wrong, but before FR started flying from BRU, I believe more FR planes were based in CRL then now... so they could grow even further without the new terminal.
The terminal is saturated only during the peak hours.

the main goal is to create jobs, that's for sure.
But it's not about building an 8 lanes highway just for the show, it's actually used, right ?
My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.

Stij
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Re: Ryanair in 2016

Post by Stij »

I PM'd Acid-drop because we're way of topic!

Your moderator apologizes for the misbehavior!

Stij

sean1982
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Re: Ryanair in 2016

Post by sean1982 »

The goal is (and has been since I came to about this late 2012) for BRU to be mostly business orientated and CRL to be more leisure orientated.

ostair
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Re: Ryanair in 2016

Post by ostair »

Again nothing for EBOS.

JAF seems to have nice figures for their Spanish routes.(aena.es)

Then again as MoL said a few months ago they don't have any planes for new routes...

Inquirer
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Re: Ryanair in 2016

Post by Inquirer »

Acid-drop wrote: It's funny how interpretations can vary.
Which is the best summary of the discussion of yesterday, to which I only come now due to work matters.

On one side there are those who like to simply echo the corporate PR and can't make it sound important enough, even if it is a just copy pasting the somewhat inflated rhetoric indeed:
...8 new routes...
While on the other hand you have those who look at the operational aspect from a purely Belgian aspect and reduce it all to:
UAE777 wrote: Just 1 plane extra at BRU and nothing at CRL? Great. :roll:
None of which are entirely correct, in my view.

Since everybody did it already, let me add my reading of events to the discussion:

Ryanair definitely announced more growth for BRU than they did over the last 2 press events combined. Something which was high due as especially their upcoming summer expansion from BRU was very underwhelming, reason for which they didn't even bother to bring the CEO in to announce it then, probably.
Another (3rd) consecutive season of such underwhelming growth at BRU would have been really inappropriate in the light of the successes by direct competitors on routes which they said they were going to target 'soon', over 2 years ago. It was really a must not to be left behind almost.
UAE777 wrote:When I was at FR they said to us they were planning on going to 12 planes in BRU in less than 2 years!
Interesting remark!
Never read that: was that something internally communicated to you, if I may ask?
It would match the PR talk as well as the forum hints by some others about a very rapid and aggressive growth of which they claimed to have seen the plans, one which didn't exactly materialize so far.

In contrast to their plans with BRU, there's a flat growth curve projected for CRL according to an article in De Tijd (based on the Q&A session afterwards), despite the logically upbeaten PR about new routes and frequencies, so obviously an equal number of destinations will get their frequencies axed and even entirely shifted to BRU, which was already reported meanwhile (see above).

All in all, It comes down to a plan which is better than what we have come to seen from them over the last year or so, and it is a much needed reaction to the fact they have been given a much tougher time on the Belgian market than they thought they'd only have, which is good.

The most important part of it all however, one which hasn't been extensively discussed yet, is that all of this is going to come into effect as from November only at the earliest, whereas we're just in the first month of 2016! As such, they are now effectively announcing things for 2017 almost, while fostering the idea that it is something which will come 'soon' and thus comparing against others in 2016.
It really is medium term planning, I'd say, especially in the light of this topic which tends to focus on their performance over the course of 2016.
Stij wrote: My bets:
The race between SN and FR will be tight again with my money on SN.
CRL, keep the plans for the extra terminal in the fridge, the expansion is in BRU.
For the 2016 outlook and the 'race' like you call it Stij, ideally I'd prefer to wait for the first few months of the year to have a better look at how competitors like Brussels Airlines have planned their growth (they didn't communicate their targets publically, I think?), but given the fact they will reportedly add at least 1 long haul plane, and several planes on European routes within a couple of weeks already, it looks like they may be aiming at growth figures above those of last year and the year before that.
It's now the 3rd year in a row ryanair claims to have an offer which will make them the biggest, and they have failed to deliver on that twice, something we both successfully called bluff somewhere in summer each time, so JAN figures will be most interesting to watch, as those will provide us with first guidance of where we may see brussels airlines go over 2016.

As for CRL's expansion: I'd definitely go ahead with it, as it's clear they need to grow to be able to diversify their customer base and be ready for when ryanair transfers even more volume to BRU: I've learnt here they did it to BCN and DUB (or as good as?), and are going to do it to MAD too? I could imagine their Milan operations to be undergoing the same fate as Barcelona/Girona too over time, so CRL better be ready to host other airlines as I doubt it's such a tempting prospect for them to be considered the place of choice for low volume, low frequency, leisure routes? What wider economic gains does the Walloon region expect from serving as the exit point for Belgian holiday makers? ;)

sean1982
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Re: Ryanair in 2016

Post by sean1982 »

UAE777's claims were incorrect. FR never communicates internally about future bases, volume in expansion or the amount of aircraft they will put in a certain base in X amount of time. The interesting thing about FR is that due to their setup, they can shift planes easily from one place to another very quickly. 1 aircraft extra in BRU, but also daily 22 coming in from other bases on a daily basis.

Inquirer's claim is also incorrect about the change also being from nov as there were multiple increases on frequency for the summer. Furthermore is your analysis very different from what you said a few days ago.
Inquirer wrote: I've read here ryanair's CEO will soon visit Belgium for his yearly PR press talk and the round up of their already known summer program as well as some other news for next winter
About SN's growth and calling bluff. We all know that they inflate their numbers with codeshare pax and that they love to give impossible growth numbers on the LH to previous years when in fact their aircraft were in maintenance checks ;) so bluff is called on both sides

sdbelgium
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Re: Ryanair in 2016

Post by sdbelgium »

Brussels - Malpensa (eff 30OCT16)

FR2961 BRU 0635 MXP 0810 738 D
FR2962 MXP 0835 BRU 1010 738 D

FR2963 BRU 1840 MXP 2015 738 D
FR2964 MXP 2040 BRU 2215 738 D

Brussels - Hamburg (eff 01NOV16)

FR2902 HAM 0650 BRU 0810 738 D
FR2901 BRU 0835 HAM 0955 738 D

FR2908 HAM 1850 BRU 2010 738 D
FR2907 BRU 2035 HAM 2155 738 D

Brussels - Malta (eff 30OCT16)

FR2905 MLA 1645 BRU 1950 738 D
FR2906 BRU 2015 MLA 2315 738 D

Brussels - Bratislava (eff 01APR16)

FR2973 BRU 1825 BTS 2010 738 x6
FR2974 BTS 2035 BRU 2220 738 x6


Note that although the flight numbers suggest otherwise, the Hamburg rotation appears to be flown by a Hamburg based aircraft. Hamburg is not a current base for Ryanair...



Charleroi - Sofia (eff 30OCT16)

FR6351 SOF 1100 CRL 1245 738 x246
FR6352 CRL 1310 SOF 1650 738 x246

Charleroi - Toulouse (eff 10NOV16)

FR2105 CRL 1055 TLS 1230 738 D
FR2106 TLS 1255 CRL 1435 738 D

Charleroi - Timisoara (eff 01NOV16)

FR310 TSR 0950 CRL 1110 738 246
FR311 CRL 1135 TSR 1450 738 246

Charleroi - Verona (eff 01NOV16)

FR9101 CRL 1825 VRN 2000 738 246
FR9102 VRN 2025 CRL 2200 738 246

Here, the Sofia rotation is probably operated by an aircraft from another base that does a W pattern around SOF (possibly STN/DUB/PSA).

flymd11
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Re: Ryanair in 2016

Post by flymd11 »

sdbelgium wrote: Here, the Sofia rotation is probably operated by an aircraft from another base that does a W pattern around SOF (possibly STN/DUB/PSA).
The schedules seem to indicate a Sofia base (DUB flight returns to SOF at 11:25pm).

koninckske
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Re: Ryanair in 2016

Post by koninckske »

Winter 15-16 VS winter 16-17 in CRL

I had a look at their booking engine for next year...

Gaining 22 weekly flights as said by Ryanair this week. (new Sofia, Timisoara and Toulouse, Verona from BRU to CRL, also in winter to Biarritz and Bucarest 2 extra flights)

What they didn't say is that they loose 23 weekly flights:

Oslo Rygge and Mallorca not available after October, Bratislava went to BRU, Pisa from 9 to 7 weekly, dublin from 5 to 4, Riga from 4 to 3. Madrid from 16 to 7 weekly (showing sold out at the moment). Rome Ciampino also showing as sold out for now. Athens and Copenhagen were also shoing sold out earlier, so think seats for MAD and CIA will be available soon.

Will have a look for BRU later...

flymd11
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Re: Ryanair in 2016

Post by flymd11 »

koninckske wrote:Winter 15-16 VS winter 16-17 in CRL
Gaining 22 weekly flights as said by Ryanair this week. (new Sofia, Timisoara and Toulouse, Verona from BRU to CRL, also in winter to Biarritz and Bucarest 2 extra flights)

What they didn't say is that they loose 23 weekly flights:

Oslo Rygge and Mallorca not available after October, Bratislava went to BRU, Pisa from 9 to 7 weekly, dublin from 5 to 4, Riga from 4 to 3. Madrid from 16 to 7 weekly (showing sold out at the moment). Rome Ciampino also showing as sold out for now. Athens and Copenhagen were also shoing sold out earlier, so think seats for MAD and CIA will be available soon.
Very interesting numbers.
CIA is now bookable (13)

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sn26567
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Re: Ryanair in 2016

Post by sn26567 »

flymd11 wrote:
koninckske wrote:Rome Ciampino also showing as sold out for now. Athens and Copenhagen were also shoing sold out earlier, so think seats for MAD and CIA will be available soon.
CIA is now bookable (13)
The new flights were announced only this week for a few bases, not yet for all of them. Hence I think a few flights might have been announced before being introduced in the booking engine or in the GDS.
André
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Flanker2
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Re: Ryanair in 2016

Post by Flanker2 »

I've been on one of their recently delivered B738's.
I don't understand why they went with the thinner slimline seats when the total seat count stays the same.
They are quite uncomfortable.

Bad decision IMO.
Ryanair is really going downhill with their higher fares, higher cost base, bad decisions, etc...

flymd11
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Re: Ryanair in 2016

Post by flymd11 »

Flanker2 wrote:I've been on one of their recently delivered B738's.
I don't understand why they went with the thinner slimline seats when the total seat count stays the same.
They are quite uncomfortable.

Bad decision IMO.
Ryanair is really going downhill with their higher fares, higher cost base, bad decisions, etc...
Feedback I have been reading has been positive with much increased space for the legs. What did you find so bad about them?

I expect their 197 seat 737Max 200 will need slimline seats to main acceptable seat pitch.

Flanker2
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Re: Ryanair in 2016

Post by Flanker2 »

The legroom is definitely less than before. Don't ask me how this is possible with slimmer seats, but it definitely felt tighter. The seatback and bottom cushion are both harder.
It is now uncomfortable but bearable. It used to be comfortable.
The seats look more modern and less canary yellow, but the ergonomy is lost. Frankly disappointed.

The only cool thing I found on this new aircraft was the new LED landing light kit, which looks sexy.

I'm not a FR basher, but why are they trying so hard to screw everything up?
They had a great business model and they are destroying everything that they had going for themselves one by one.

flymd11
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Re: Ryanair in 2016

Post by flymd11 »

Flanker2 wrote:The legroom is definitely less than before. Don't ask me how this is possible with slimmer seats, but it definitely felt tighter.
What row were you in?

sean1982
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Re: Ryanair in 2016

Post by sean1982 »

The leg space has INcreased ;) measures with a tape measure. Passenger feedback is very good on the new seats ;)

I paid 18€ for a trip to Berlin btw ... Damn those high fares :p
Last edited by sean1982 on 31 Jan 2016, 10:44, edited 1 time in total.

sean1982
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Re: Ryanair in 2016

Post by sean1982 »

Another record for Ryanair:
This week they took delivery of 6 new aircraft with sky interior in a week time :)

http://irishaviationresearchinstitute.b ... x.html?m=1

Tomorrow all DUB and STN crew will be wearing the new uniform, after that BRU will be next probably around half to end of feb :)

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sn26567
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Re: Ryanair in 2016

Post by sn26567 »

sean1982 wrote: Tomorrow all DUB and STN crew will be wearing the new uniform, after that BRU will be next probably around half to end of feb :)
Some of these uniforms are the only items where the canary yellow has been maintained and even increased ☺
André
ex Sabena #26567

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