The Brussels Airlines press conference of 30 January 2014

[RTM]

Look at it from the other side sean...
If FR is not making money in BRU, than that is a stupid move. Every buisiness needs to make money, draining money from other places can also blow up in your face. But hey, fine with me. But it'll have to turn around at some point for them, or they will not continue the move... They have been very rigorous in the past in cutting loss making routes or stations...
A buisiness needs to make money, FR is no different.

[RTM]

So there is no point to speak about shity ryanair here.

can we go back on topic please?

Actually, I agree. Sorry for my last post...

[sean1982]

That's absolutely true RTM, at a certain point they will want to see a profit out of BRU ... I'm just worried that they can keep the game up longer than SN can. I just think that the money would have been better invested in the long haul. The european sector was running well I believe, because it was feeding the long haul so well. I'm definatly not bashing ... My point of view is just different.

[sean1982]

of course i have some argument but if you want to hear them, in this case open a topic "sn against fr".
i personally don t mind to speak about that but as it have been clarify yesterday, that the people are fed up that in each topic we compare ryanair to sn. this topic have been opened for the press conference of sn. So there is no point to speak about shity ryanair here.

can we go back on topic please?

The press calls it: SN opens war on ryanair. So this is all on topic!

[crew1990]

no sean it not the subject of the topic. the topic is about the new destination, the fleet renewal, the new lounge, the new services etc... what the problem to open a new topic about the battle if it can make the forum better for the other

[Pocahontas]

"(removed cause interpreted as insult)"Are you paid for all this publicity Sean? According to you nothing is bad at FR. Well reading your reaction, I have the impression that you are a bit agitated. Personally I think that CRL will loose a lot of PAX, to both FR (at BRU) as SN (yes believe me). Don't forget that it is far more interesting for most people to fly from Zaventem, even if they have to pay a little extra (cause SN fares will be/are quite low as well).
And indeed we have good cabin crew, most of them speaking at least 3 languages (and not only what they have to read from their speech booklet ). If we want we can make the difference in service, and believe me, with economics slightly getting better, people tend to spend more money on comfort.
Good move from Bru Air, backed up by LH, to my opinion.

[Boeing767copilot]

My bet: just one winner, exactly Brussels Airport

A very good and correct analysis: (only in Dutch)
http://www.deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/o ... m_standard

[RoMax]

Taking into account the refreshed SN offer, I mainly fear for the Vueling offer which is except for one destination exactly the same as that of Ryanair. But Ryanair has their greater brand recognition, lower average ticket prices and often higher capacity/frequencies in their favor. I don't think SN will be hit that much by this first round of FR-attacks. Except maybe for a few routes.

[sean1982]

I dont like personal insults Pocahontas , they are not needed. Im far from a fan from MOL.
I also dont care if CRL loses passengers. Are you claiming we dont have good cabin crew? Personally I speak 4 languages and also a lot of my colleagues speak 3 or more languages! Not from a PA book.
People want to spend more money on comfort, that's why also FR is investing in it.

[Pocahontas]

You are completely right about that insult. I will remove it. About those 3 or more languages, I simply do not believe you! I never said that FR CCM are bad, I think. Otherwise please quote my text, as everybody likes to do on this forum.

[sean1982]

You don't have to believe me, but let me tell you this: they speak their native language, english is their second language and at least 80% speak a third or even a fourth language.

[convair]

And, btw, thanks for the excellent reporting and related information André!

[luchtzak]

And, btw, thanks for the excellent reporting and related information André!

:thumbup:

I agree!!

[sn-remember]

SN announcing some holidays destinations .. what more natural ?
No need talking like big guns are displayed ... SN is a dwarf compared to the likes of FR EZY VUE ..etc
They indeed have to offer a panel of different services, 4 is too much, IMO 3 should be ok.
WAW is a nice come back as well as KRK.
SVQ also.
However they will only survive through l/hauls which much depend on feeding, that where money should be invested now. It's long overdue !

[OO-ITR]

According to De Tijd, SN will recruit 10 pilots and 50 cabin crew members for this expansion, so that's definitely good news for all those people.

http://www.tijd.be/nieuws/ondernemingen ... 7-3085.art

And especially for the Belgian economy. We should all support real Belgian companies and be a bit more patriotic!

[EBAW_flyer]

I was expecting much more!

Basically, what they are doing is announcing "new routes" which are 90% destinations (all but one) they have done in the past (but were closed down to save money on their European network).

So, it 's easy, you stop a couple of routes because they are unprofitable, you reopen them a year later and call it "the greatest expansion ever".
A bit cheap, no?

And the extra pilots/cabin crew (from their job sites) are only temporary contracts. Will they in time become a seasonal airline?

Cabin Crew Member (temporary contract)
Cabin Crew Member WITH experience (temporary contract)
Captain 32F (temporary)
Captain BAE146/AVRO RJ (temporary)
First Officer A32F with line experience on type (temporary)
First Officer A32F without line experience (temporary)
First Officer BAE 146/AVRO RJ with line experience on type (temporary)
First Officer BAE146/AVRO RJ without line experience on type (temporary)

[RoMax]

However they will only survive through l/hauls which much depend on feeding, that where money should be invested now. It's long overdue !

All very nice to invest in long haul (and maybe they'll announce something later on?). But if they can make money in Europe and in the summer months they earn some good money on these South European routes (especially if they have some lucrative touroperator contracts, which is the case for several routes), they have to go after it. Such routes require a much lower investment compared to long haul expansion and they start turning profit much faster as well. Based on the current negative yield development on the long haul network (and not only that of SN) compared to a very positive trend on the European network, it's the right time to invest in Europe.

SN is a dwarf compared to the likes of FR EZY VUE ..etc

Of course, SN is a one-nation airline, squeezed between Europe's largest airlines/hubs.

They indeed have to offer a panel of different services, 4 is too much, IMO 3 should be ok.

I don't think 4 is too much as long as it's clear for the passengers from what they choose while booking their ticket. The current b.light/b.flex/b.business offer is not that bad, but b.light is really not competitive enough. Higher flexibility ranging from a low basic offer to a full service highly flexible offer, in 4 different steps doesn't seem bad to me at all.

[RoMax]

So, it 's easy, you stop a couple of routes because they are unprofitable, you reopen them a year later and call it "the greatest expansion ever".
A bit cheap, no?

Did SN previously served Bari, Malta, Montpellier and all 3 destinations in Corsica as sheduled flights? Some routes have been cut for a relative short time indeed (WAW, KRK, ATH (and Sevilla?) were axed at the end of 2012), but there is still nothing wrong with announcing them as new destinations, everyone does it. At the end of 2012 SN stopped much more destinations, which were relaunched in the summer of 2013, that's something else of course, but these were never announced as new destinations, but as a relaunch of seasonal routes.

In combination with the upgrades for Tel Aviv, Madrid, Florence,... they'll add about 400 000 seats to their offer this year. That's their greatest expansion ever, that's not "calling it", that's a simple fact. I don't see anything cheap in it.

What did you expect 10 destinations all with at least 1 daily flight to high profile airports?

[EBAW_flyer]

Did SN previously served Bari, Malta, Montpellier and all 3 destinations in Corsica as sheduled flights?

If I remember correctly they served Bari and Malta as scheduled flight, and Corsica was bookable on their site (don't know all 3).
But when JAF announced they would become a scheduled carrier some years ago, were all their routes "new destinations" then?
Anyway, I wish them all the best.
It seems today there is more money to be made on the leisure market than on business destinations.

[RoMax]

But when JAF announced they would become a scheduled carrier some years ago, were all their routes "new destinations" then?

I think you also realise that's a comparison that really doesn't make any sense.

It seems today there is more money to be made on the leisure market than on business destinations.

From what I heard recently after talking with someone of Arke, TUI (as an example) sees a steep climb in the yields on several of their South European tourism markets. So if you take the right approach there is certainly money to be mode on the leisure market right now.

But I'm also glad to see Poland back. The costs were too high for these two routes back in 2012, while the shedule was not attractive enough. Now the costs are down, they have a more suitable shedule and the economy is recovering resulting in higher business demand between Belgium and Poland. So it's a very good thing they return to that key Eastern European market.