16 direct trains from Holland to Brussels Airport in 2014

[sn26567]

Belgian and Dutch railway operators NMBS/SNCB and NS have announced their intention to operate 16 direct daily train connections between Brussels Airport and the Dutch cities of Breda, Rotterdam and The Hague. The new Benelux-Plus connection will provide passengers from Holland with an efficient mode of transportation to reach Brussels Airport. Last year, 300.000 Dutch passengers crossed the border to fly from Brussels Airport. Most of them come by car. The convenient direct train service will be a big help to make them choose public transportation.

[LJ]

I wonder how KLM will react. They didn't invest in Fyra to make life for SN easier (BTW I do realise that the Benelux train doesn't have any legal tie to Fyra, however, still, when your partners decide to stop a train from The Netherlands at BRU, I can't see KL be happy about this). The only positive development is that Thalys is running 14 daily (on weekdays) as well.

[Flanker2]

It's a good start, but why aren't the Thalys and Eurostar stopping at BRU?
After all, this is an opportunity for SN to start offering codeshares on Thalys, like AF does with its TGV out of Brussels South.

Sure it will add 5 to 10 minutes to the Thalys trip, but the stop in Schiphol also adds time.
Thalys is a Belgian train, so Belgian interest should come first.

Imagine if SN could have access to London through the Eurostar.
After all, if you're starting out of Central London, travelling through BRU on the Eurostar is not much more hassle than travelling through Heathrow.

BRU, SN and the Belgian government, please do your job.

[Stij]

As long as you can't check-in your luggage at the city centre railwaystation, it remains an "ersatz", and not a good one...

Chers,

Stij

[crew1990]

I also think that the Eurostar could replace the BRU-LHR-BRU service.

I use to fly quite often with SN to go to central London, and having 1.20 of flight plus the stress of LHR, having to walk 15 min to take the undergroung and finally arrived 1 hour later in central London is really annoying when you know that if the Eurostar was in BRU, you could go within 2 hours to London St Pancras in the city center!

Another idea was also a direct connection with hight speed train to DUS or CGN, this could I think a nice idea too.

[OO-ITR]

As for the Thalys train running between Paris Nord and Brussels Airport, it would be nice if Eurostar can connect London with BRU and Thalys could do the same between Amsterdam and BRU.

But from what I hear is that the reason why SN still has flights to Paris, is that with the Thalys there is often the luggage problem. Probably this will be the same with Eurostar and Thalys to Amsterdam.

[jan_olieslagers]

Another reason is that Eurostar is an ex-Schengen connection, so it can only serve stations with customs/immigration services. Eurostar presently terminates at Brussels South ("Midi") station, where two platforms are indeed international territory, behind passport control*. The current railway station at Zaventem airport has no room for such a setup.

*I used to visit a server room deep below these two platforms at one time, and had to remember carrying an ID for these trips.

[dna]

@crew1990 You should take into account that many people fly to LHR ex-BRU to transfer to other flights. Eurostar is not an option there, I'm afraid. I'm pretty sure people at British Airways think the same. I regularly transfer at LHR, please do not replace those flights with trains!

[Flanker2]

Another reason is that Eurostar is an ex-Schengen connection, so it can only serve stations with customs/immigration services. Eurostar presently terminates at Brussels South ("Midi") station, where two platforms are indeed international territory, behind passport control*. The current railway station at Zaventem airport has no room for such a setup.

*I used to visit a server room deep below these two platforms at one time, and had to remember carrying an ID for these trips.

Not relevant in my opinion, as the Eurostar will probably start working with a "port of entry" system, with Midi as the port of entry. It would be much cheaper than to have a separate immigration and customs office at each of the 4 new stations that will be operated in the Benelux. That way they only need to equip Midi to handle it.
If above is correct, BRU wouldn't need a customs and immigration office.

Ps: The Eurostar will only start with twice daily from Amsterdam in 2016.

[LJ]

It's a good start, but why aren't the Thalys and Eurostar stopping at BRU?

Probably because AF/KL doesn't want/allow it. All highspeed trains to from The Netherlands will be using the concession granted to HSA, a consortium where KL has a stake in. AF/KL probably doesn't want to make life for SN easier by giving them access to the high speed trains. Needless to say they can start at BRU or Antwerp, but I think that this isn't profitable.

[euroflyer]

Thalys is a Belgian train, so Belgian interest should come first.

Hm? "Thalys is an international high-speed train operator originally built around the high-speed line between Paris and Brussels. This track is shared with Eurostar trains that go from Paris or Brussels to London via Lille and the Channel Tunnel and with French domestic TGV trains. Thalys reaches Amsterdam and Cologne, and its system is operated by Thalys International. Its capital is divided up between SNCF (62%), NMBS/SNCB (28%) and Deutsche Bahn (10%)." source: Wikipedia

Thalys is 28% Belgian ... It is an international joint venture of the main train operators in France, Belgium and Germany. And France has by far the biggest stake (this is why Thalys uses French TGV trains painted in red colors ...)

[jan_olieslagers]

Hm?

We should be mild here. It is hard enough to keep up with the latest detail information on one mode of transportation, nobody can be expected to be an expert authority on both air and rail transportation.

[LJ]

Thalys reaches Amsterdam and Cologne, and its system is operated by Thalys International. Its capital is divided up between SNCF (62%), NMBS/SNCB (28%) and Deutsche Bahn (10%)." source: Wikipedia

Thalys is 28% Belgian ... It is an international joint venture of the main train operators in France, Belgium and Germany. And France has by far the biggest stake (this is why Thalys uses French TGV trains painted in red colors ...)

To make things more complicated, the Thalys service between Amsterdam - Brussels - Paris is a jount venture between Thalys International and HSA (note the joint venture is only for travellers to/from The Netherlands, not to/from Belgium). The same applies to the Eurostar service orginating/terminating in Amsterdam.

Deutsche Bahn (DB) left Thalys this year. This is probably also the reason why both NS and NMBS/Thalys are poposing this venture. As some may know, DB wants to start service to London. Moreover, DB owns Arriva, the train operator which wants to start a service between The Hague and Brussels. Needless to say both NS and NMBS aren't happy with DB at the moment and this plan makes life for DB difficult.

BTW rail seems dull business, but it's very interesting nowadays and with the Fyra soap it's sometimes even more entertaining than aviation industry.

[Stij]

Fyra soap more entertaining than aviation?? The Dreamliner soap is even hotter: they catch fire!!!

Cheers,

Stij

[Comet]

It would be good if there was an airport train from Oostende and Brugge as well, instead of having to change in Brussels or Antwerp if you are travelling to and from Oostende and Brugge.

[sn26567]

It would be good if there was an airport train from Oostende and Brugge as well, instead of having to change in Brussels or Antwerp if you are travelling to and from Oostende and Brugge.

There are many important cities in Belgium which lack a direct link with Brussels Airport: besides Ostend-Bruges, there are also Aachen-Liège, Luxembourg-Namur, Charleroi and I guess many others.

But the Dutch market (subject of this topic) is probably much more important for Brussels Airport. There is no doubt that connections to Belgian cities will be expanded in the future.

[fcw]

Indeed, why is the Bruges-Brussels-Leuven- Tongeren train not making a stop at the airport?
Same question for the Ostend-Liege train.
Some of the airport trains are running between the city and back or airport-Leuven and back, wouldn't it make more sense to let a regular Brussels-Leuven train make a stop at the airport?

[jan_olieslagers]

why is the Bruges-Brussels-Leuven- Tongeren train not making a stop at the airport?

Because it would need to change direction ("kop maken") at the airport, driving in from the South and leaving to the South again. This is a complex operation, taking at least 20 minutes if my old memory serves.

The better idea is (Antwerpen)-Mechelen-Airport-Leuven-(Liège) but I think that is more or less what they now do?

Nice would be (Oostende)-(Brugge)-Gent-Dendermonde-Mechelen-Airport but unfortunately the rails are in the wrong way for that in Mechelen.

[fcw]

why is the Bruges-Brussels-Leuven- Tongeren train not making a stop at the airport?

Because it would need to change direction ("kop maken") at the airport, driving in from the South and leaving to the South again. This is a complex operation, taking at least 20 minutes if my old memory serves.

Are u sure about that? During the weekend there is a train Brussels-Airport-Leuven.

[Comet]

I also think that the Eurostar could replace the BRU-LHR-BRU service.

I use to fly quite often with SN to go to central London, and having 1.20 of flight plus the stress of LHR, having to walk 15 min to take the undergroung and finally arrived 1 hour later in central London is really annoying when you know that if the Eurostar was in BRU, you could go within 2 hours to London St Pancras in the city center!

Another idea was also a direct connection with hight speed train to DUS or CGN, this could I think a nice idea too.

Of course, if there was snow, Euro"star" would be no good at going anywhere, as I know from my own personal experience (I know it was in 2009 but it should not have happened at all, it was poor design of the train, there was no excuse for such incompetence).