Which A330 next for Brussels Airlines?

[tangolima]

And, btw, it is now on its way to BRU from MAN as M-ABFL.

M-ABFL flew MAN-ZRH

Greetings,

[crew1990]

Could SN get some bigger a/c like A340-500, if they want to expand their operation in Kinshasa, but lose their trafic right from the LAC.

[cathay belgium]

Hi,

Guess not as long as they aren't making money and are fully owned by LH,they would step aside from their paved path by now..
Is so.. maybe an older B747-400 of LH was better or some extra A340-300 ex LX..
As 340-500 aren't in the LH-group fleet.. think SN better shop in second hand LH birds..

CX-B

[RoMax]

As long as they don't need the range of the A343, they shouldn't use it. Swiss even has more seats in their A333's than in their A343's (19 more in economy, two less in business), so they don't need the A343 for the capacity. SN's flights are all rather short long haul flights, wouldn't be a good idea to use an A343 for that, only when they want a much longer route that can't be operated efficiently with their A332's, they could look at some A340's.
For capacity, I don't think they really need aircraft with more capacity, except maybe for a few routes. In that case they could go for the A346, tough that's not really the most efficient aircraft around either...

[crew1990]

Is so.. maybe an older B747-400 of LH was better or some extra A340-300 ex LX..

What would be the point to have a A340-300 in the fleet as it have the same capacity of the current A330-300 of SN?


Subsidary question , what's the difference between a A330 and a A340, the maximum range of the ETOPS restriction?

[KriVa]

Keep in mind, the 747s leaving LH are fairly old machines, in terms of cycles and hours. While they're probably still rather useful for cargo operators, I don't think they'll be going to passenger airlines.
A D-check would also be the perfect moment to convert them to cargo.

[BRU]

Cargo airlines are today struggling to operate the 747-400BCF profitable and some of them are already replacing them or grounding them. Do not think we will see so many conversions in the next years, especially with all the new build B777F, B747-8F and A330F coming on the market.

[fcw]

Subsidary question , what's the difference between a A330 and a A340, the maximum range of the ETOPS restriction?

The T in ETOPS stands for TWIN (engine), there no such thing as ETOPS for the A340.

[OO-ITR]

Not in line with the topic (next A330) but I have always wondered if SN wouldn't be better with B788 in the future. This A/C has a smaller configuration and therefor maybe more suitable to fly some destinations directly.
Not sure what will be the replacement A/C of the A330 in the future...
What are you thoughts? Or should we start a new topic about this?

[crew1990]

What will be nice with the 787 is that we will have soon a specialist of the maintenance of this a/c in BRU, Tec4Jet. The only problem is that buing brand new a/c is too expensive for SN, and you can't find any 787 in second hand yet.

In another hand, I think that the A350 would be more suitable for SN wich is becoming a "full airbus company" so it would be easier for the training of the crew

[KriVa]

The T in ETOPS stands for TWIN (engine), there no such thing as ETOPS for the A340.

I thought the T used to stand for Twin? I'm not sure about EASA rules, but if I remember correctly, the FAA changed the acronym to ExTended OPerationS, to include three and four-engined airliners in to the fire suppression requirements, when flying more than 180 minutes from a suitable airport.

[RoMax]

In another hand, I think that the A350 would be more suitable for SN wich is becoming a "full airbus company" so it would be easier for the training of the crew

That means nothing in the LH Group, look at Swiss (full Airbus -> 77W), Lufthansa (new 748i's comming in), Austrian (777's and 767's with more second hand 777's to come). LH buys what they need/suits them best, often that's Airbus, but that can also be Boeing.
Lufthansa said to be looking at the 787-10 for their A333/A343 replacement for example. And I'm quite sure the 788 and/or 789 are in the running for Austrian and SN. These two need something rather small (besides some bigger like the 789 or 787-10X), while the smallest A350 version is the -800. That's a shrink of the -900 and as a result not the most efficient in it's category (that's why it has a reducing amount of orders, look at it like the smallest version in the 737 and A320 families, they both lack orders because they are too heavy for what they can do).

[tolipanebas]

The 788 is a fuel efficient plane all right, but its not like new A333s are suddenly completely inefficient either: the A330 is not the 767 in the face of its competitor.

In fact, new A333s can be shown to have the upper hand against 788s on relatively short long haul routes when taking into account the higher revenue potential, notably from its larger cargo belly capacity, and let this be exactly the profile of SN's African destinations, so it's not beyond imagination that the best plane to replace the ageing A333s in 2017 with is another batch of A333s.

[convair]

Is the plan to start replacing the older A333s in 2017 then?

[cathay belgium]

Hi,

What would be the point to have a A340-300 in the fleet as it have the same capacity of the current A330-300 of SN?

My point was : the A343 will be available in second hand conditions in a near future within the LH Group, (LX).
You can say this of the A333 ..
Not that this is necessary as we already see today... but you never know..

CXB

[crew1990]

Actually yes it could be possible, if I remember well i think that SN was in talk with olimpic some years ago to buy their A340, isn't it?

[RoMax]

Actually yes it could be possible, if I remember well i think that SN was in talk with olimpic some years ago to buy their A340, isn't it?

That was rumoured, but I don't know if that was really true or if it was really more than some talk.

[A330]

to replace the ageing A333s in 2017 with is another batch of A333s.

Is the plan to start replacing the older A333s in 2017 then?

Good question!

The idea to take up A343's would be because of their availability I guess, not for range or capacity.
If you look at the number of seats, the A343 doesn't really offer more capacity than the A333 (266 seats in 2-class with LH). It does offer additional range. But none of SN's flights is longer than 7000 km (great circle). For example BRU-LAD is 6674 km, BRU-NBO is 6552 km. Destinations in West Africa are around 5000 km away. So no need for extra range, unless for new routes: SFO and JNB would take it to almost 9000 km, GRU to 9600 km.
For the current routes, the range of either the A350 or 787 (either version of them) would be > double the required range, not taking into account their "real" range with full payload. The question will be which of these aircraft will perform the best on shorter long haul missions (5000-7000 km).
Looking at seat capacity, the A350-800, 787-9 and 787-10 are in line with the A333, with the 787-8 being smaller as a A332 replacement. The A350-900 is bigger, whereas the A350-1000 and 777X seem to be in a different league. Don't know about cargo, have to look that up sometime.
As a replacement, whenever that might be, I see SN operating 2 types, offering flexibility on capacity, and also different size of premium cabins.

[Bralo20]

Actually yes it could be possible, if I remember well i think that SN was in talk with olimpic some years ago to buy their A340, isn't it?

That was rumoured, but I don't know if that was really true or if it was really more than some talk.

I doubt it was true, the OA birds aren't airworthy and haven't been that since 2009. All the documentation of these birds was "lost" and no maintenance history, flights, etc... could be proven and thus they were sold for minimal scrap value. Since 2009 they even weren't decent stored and were left as is when OA stopped in 2009. AFAIK they are still in ATH and will probably be parted out on site as the sale of these birds was finally approved mid 2012. They were sold to Apollo in Miami for less then 1/3th of their economical value.

[crew1990]

But now, woult it be a good idea to buy some A340? I mean if SN had a strong fleet of long haul aicraft, it would make sense, but with only 5 A330-300 and 3 A330-200, it would be stupid to have a new type of aircraft in the fleet.