Jetairfly policy towards young pilots

[sean1982]

Not to mention the fact they make a lot of their money by exploiting young pilots. Making them pay 25k+ for a type rating and then kicking them out at the end of summer with less then 500 hours on type which makes them useless for the market. Other companies wont take them anymore as cadets cause they have "expirience" however never expirience enough to be considered for an F/O job. Personally I know 4 people in a case like that, 2 of them more then 3 years out of a job so probably won't fly anymore as pilots but with 100k+ of debts.
I find it extrememy arrogant of the airline to boast about how good they are doing when they make so much money on the back of young people and in the mean time break their future career

[BekEBBR]

Not to mention the fact they make a lot of their money by exploiting young pilots. Making them pay 25k+ for a type rating and then kicking them out at the end of summer with less then 500 hours on type which makes them useless for the market. Other companies wont take them anymore as cadets cause they have "expirience" however never expirience enough to be considered for an F/O job. Personally I know 4 people in a case like that, 2 of them more then 3 years out of a job so probably won't fly anymore as pilots but with 100k+ of debts.
I find it extrememy arrogant of the airline to boast about how good they are doing when they make so much money on the back of young people and in the mean time break their future career

What do you mean? You think about the Cadet programme?

[sean1982]

No, im talking about the peopl they "hire" every year for 1 summer to make their TRTO run.

[BekEBBR]

Ooh ok

[JAFflyer]

Off topic but wanting to correct an earlier statement:
People taking on a temporary contract, know it is temporary, hence the word temporary and a start and an end date in the contract. A transfer to a fixed contract after this date is never guaranteed. This is something completely different than firing people.

[sean1982]

doesn't make it more ethical does it? Especially cause the fixed contract is constantly used as the carrot in front of the horse

[sean1982]

Or maybe we should talk about those guys who worked in OCC awaiting their typerating after PASSING their Cirrus check, who suddenly had an extra Cirrus check with ABE and mysteriously failed it, meaning they were let go after working more then a year for peanuts :s Way to go JAF!! Be proud of yourself

[Sai]

Sean1982, even though I can understand your emotions and appreciate your posts don't you think it would be better to start a separate topic about let's say the policy of Belgian or European airlines and their selection and career opportunities: the pro's and con's. The bad and/or good things of their approach. Such a separate topic could be really interesting and useful for new or young pilots.
Now you react on almost every JAF topic in a negative way and off-topic.
Again I can understand this and I don't mean this in a negative way...but now it's not really relating.

[jan_olieslagers]

Well, if everybody or almost everybody seems to be bashing HIS airline, I can quite understand Sean. Not really a wise style, perhaps, but SO easy to imagine!
That said, I understand there is a vast overcapacity on the pilots market so no wonder mean offers are being offered AND being accepted. Not really the airline's fault, but not especially the pilot's fault either, I should think. Good luck for the airlines, and bad luck for the pilots, the youngsters most of all.

[sean1982]

Perhaps so Sai, some of these people I am talking about are very close to me, so JAF kinda makes my blood boil

@jan, if the pilot community would stick together more (like it used to be) these kind of things wouldn't be happening I'm not bashing JAF just because a lot of people are bashing FR (in fact, I couldn't care less about that) I am usually not a basher, as I love flying in general, no matter which colours are on the side, but I just find it very unethical the way JAF are treating young pilots

[SN056M]

Sean,this is not only the case with JAF.People are beeing "used" in every company.I work for example already 4 years in total for a company,but do you think they offer me a fixed contract? Forget it,they don't! 4 years interim untill now...This is unfortunatly the way it works these days.Not only at JAF....

[teddybAIR]

Sean, may I ask you what your honest objective is with this thread? Do you want to inform people? Warn people? Are you looking for specific information? Something else?

[SpottairBRU]

Sean, may I ask you what your honest objective is with this thread? Do you want to inform people? Warn people? Are you looking for specific information? Something else?

As far as I remember, Sean's comment was made in the thread on Jetairfly getting Embraer, and as it got several replies, this was moved as a separate discussion, so I'm not sure that Sean wanted to create a full thread on that subject.

Note to the moderators: to avoid misunderstandings, maybe a note from you when splitting a thread could be a good idea

[teddybAIR]

I understand that, but I'm still wondering what the intention of this particular thread is. He must have written it with some kind of motivation in the other thread in the first place right? Just curious, that's all

[pressman]

I think its fairly clear , he is pointing out the fact that JAF charge youngsters 25000 for a type rating and then boot them at the end of the summer and then keep hiring new guys for the following summer .
Not a very ethical practice by JAF , but why wouldn't they do it if they have enough fools willing to do it .

[FlightMate]

The problem is that young pilots are still queuing up for such bad deals.
Long re gone when pilots were hired for their individual merits.
Now it's only for the one having the deepest pockets.
Time fr the BCAA to get involved?

[teddybAIR]

why is everybody but sean answering?

[sean1982]

Because Sean was flying. Firstly I wanna make it clear that I did NOT request this thread to be created or split off from the other topic. I think I made my opinion clear in previous posts, however I do wanna give my thoughts on it.

@spotterke, I don't know if you had to invest in your job, but these are people that paid 100.000 euro (initial traing + type rating) and then get employed for 1 summer. They get lured into the job with the promise of a possible fixed contract only to realise at the end of summer that maybe 4% get one. This is not "a chance for a fixed contract" this is pure sham.

I initially made my comments cause JAF is constantly claiming in media, facebook, twitter (in quite an arrogant way if you ask me) to be the best, youngest, fast growing airline in belgium. Yet there is no other airline in Belgium who makes so much money through their TRTO by exploiting young pilots. They get hired, pay 25000 euro, used and thrown out like a piece of trash with less then 500 hours on type (which renders them useless for the market as I explained in my previous post) On top of that they kicked out a number of experienced co-pilots who were on a 3 year contract in favor of 1 time summer contracts. These guys and girls end up with 100+k of debts, no job and a bleak chance of finding another one.

Now imagine that the NMBS or a big factory would do something similar? Within a day the trains would stop driving or the factory would be shut down. Not so in most airlines, nope, no-one of the pilots who actually do have a fixed contract actually has the balls to speak up and do something about it. Yes, they all complain about it beyond managements back, but when it comes to passing on the message everybody shuts their mouth 'cause the only thing they care about it their own seat. Its all good and well to say:"young pilots shouldn't be accepting these kind of contracts". They don't know any better, and if they don't take it, other people will and they will never get any job. The only people who CAN do something are senior captains, people with years in the industry but they all keep their mouth shut 'cause they couldn't care less.

Now some people will probably call me a basher, I'm not. This has nothing to do with FR vs the rest. I've seen people being crushed by this airline, both financially and in their spirit and I think it's unacceptable and criminal

[SN056M]

@spotterke, I don't know if you had to invest in your job,

No i had not,but what i mean is that the end result is just the same..company's "use" people as long as they are needed and then throw them out. It's everywere...