Lybian Air Force losses

[Roser]

Hi

by so far I have knowledge of five planes lost by the Libyan airforce: 2 Mirage FI fled to Malta, one shot down, 1 plane (?) crashed and the pilots ejected, 1 SU 24 shot down. See wiki and CNN.

Can someone help me to complete and follow this airwar?

Roser

[Roser]

Hi

here news about a Lib plane that crashed 23 feb
A Libyan Air Force plane crashed near the eastern city of Benghazi after its crew ejected because they refused to carry out orders to bomb the city, as reported by Libya’s Quryna news service, which cited a colonel at an air base near Benghazi as saying captain Attia Abdel Salem al Abdali and his number two Ali Omar Gaddafi bailed out of their Russian-made Sukhoi Su-22 Fitter attack aircraft and parachuted to earth.
The aircraft, which took off from Tripoli, crashed near the city of Ajdabiya, 100 miles southwest of Benghazi, the newspaper said.
The Su-22 was produced between 1969 and 1990, and used primarily by air forces in Russia, Libya, Egypt, and Poland. It carries multiple heavy armaments and bomb pods, and is flown by a pilot and navigator, who also serves as bombardier.


Continue reading on Examiner.com: Libyan pilots eject rather than bomb civilians - National Airlines/Airport | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/airlines-airpor ... z1FurNSuYb

[andorra-airport]

Losses:

Beside the 2 Mirage's in Malta, the rest is crashed or burned down:

23-FEB-2011 Sukhoi Su-22UM-3K Fitter-G
23-FEB-2011 SIAI Marchetti SF.260ML
23-FEB-2011 Dassault Mirage F1BD/ED
23-FEB-2011 Mil Mi-24 Hind
28-FEB-2011 Mil Mi-24 Hind
03-MAR-2011 Dassault Mirage F1BD/ED
05-MAR-2011 Sukhoi Su-24MK Fencer
06-MAR-2011 Mil Mi-24 Hind

It seems that the rebels captured a few Lavochkin SA-2 (Soviet Union Air defense SAM).

Gains (captured) :

27-FEB-2011 Westland SH-14D Lynx (Netherlands)

Sad to say, but to be continued.

[regi]

is this the downing of a Mirage F1 ?
I think it is because of the wing shape.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12794589

[Polleke-NL]

doesn't seem that way, if the still pictures at the end of the movie are of the same plane as the one in the beginning, it most certainly isn't a F1 because the one on the still has swept wings, making that a mig23 or so?

[AF036]

not realy air force...
2 Yak-40 damaged and/or destroyed

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/840/800xd.jpg
http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=121169

[regi]

doesn't seem that way, if the still pictures at the end of the movie are of the same plane as the one in the beginning, it most certainly isn't a F1 because the one on the still has swept wings, making that a mig23 or so?

I thought a Mirage F1 had swept wings ...http://www.google.be/images?client=safa ... 24&bih=654
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirage_F1

and the still shows this:
http://english.aljazeera.net

[Polleke-NL]

The aircraft on the still has swept wings like the ones you'll find on a tomcat which can change the , the ones of an F1 are fixed.

Check the differences here:
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_F1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-23

[regi]

The aircraft on the still has swept wings like the ones you'll find on a tomcat which can change the , the ones of an F1 are fixed.

Check the differences here:
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_F1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-23

OK, with swept wings I meant the look of the wing, not the fact it is moveable.
But I agree that it looks like a Mig-23, comparing the wing tips of a Mirage F1 and the half folded wings of this crashing Mig-23.
Good point for you, polleke.

[tsv]

I hope their AN-124(s) survive. I think they have two of these (?), from Google Earth it looks like one is parked at Umm Aitiqah Airforce Base and the other at Trippoli International.

The Ruslan is obvioulsy no threat to anybody but I can just imagine some Moronic US Commander ordering "Take the Dang thing out anyway". Hope I'm wrong of course.

[regi]

The first announced western crash : a F-15.

Here we could get some input from Smokejumper with his experience during the Vietnam War.

Theory: if Khadafi can hold it out long enough, will the bill rise too high for western nations as with the Vietnamese conflict?
Securing that no fly zone will cost a lot of money. And I refer to my remark when we talked about the Mig-21. The wear on the material is enourmous. OK, Khadafi has no more real airforce. But by staying in power and launching now and than an obsolete airplane, he forces the western coalition to stay in the air, 24h, over the entire country.
Western military is struggling to cope with the costs of Iraq and Afghanistan. Now this on top.
Simple question: how many cruise missiles you think that the west still has after the initial launch of those 110 missiles ?

I am afraid that this could lead to another war of attrition. All depends on the time that Khadafi can survive, compare it with Iraq.
If his military is willing to fight, it could become a very costly affair, leading to a shameful stalemate for the western countries.
I just give 1 example: what do you think that the west will do if China sends openly a boat full of military hardware to Tripoli to support Khadafi, to get his oil?

[regi]

Seems that I am not the only one who starts to think openly about the financial impact of the Lybian action.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12806709

[regi]

And it escalates, exactly as has been predicted:
a dogfight with 1 Lybian airplane.
Just some hours after I made the message of war of attrition.
Would Khadafi read Luchtzak ?
Just now in Dutch. Dogfight with 1 Lybian airplane, result unknown.
http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/3542/Onrust-in-A ... stel.dhtml

update: the Lybian aircraft was shot down.

[regi]

when the hard liners of Fox start to question the cost of this intervention, it is not all that bright .

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/03 ... s-millions

[smokejumper]

I hope their AN-124(s) survive. I think they have two of these (?), from Google Earth it looks like one is parked at Umm Aitiqah Airforce Base and the other at Trippoli International.

The Ruslan is obvioulsy no threat to anybody but I can just imagine some Moronic US Commander ordering "Take the Dang thing out anyway". Hope I'm wrong of course.

Perhaps you can nicely ask Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi to promise (cross-his-heart-and-hope-to-die kind of promise) that he won't use the AN-124's to transport troops, munitions and supplies to his troops. If he does promise, then maybe "some Moronic US Commander” might say OK, I trust him and we'll spare the planes.

I'll try to look up the phone number of all "Moronic US Commanders” and tell them to expect your call that the gentle Col. Made this promise.

Added - I just re-read the above post. God, I am getting old and just becoming more sarcastic as I age, but then, as Popeye said ("I is what I is").

[smokejumper]

The first announced western crash : a F-15.

Here we could get some input from Smokejumper with his experience during the Vietnam War.

Theory: if Khadafi can hold it out long enough, will the bill rise too high for western nations as with the Vietnamese conflict?
Securing that no fly zone will cost a lot of money. And I refer to my remark when we talked about the Mig-21. The wear on the material is enourmous. OK, Khadafi has no more real airforce. But by staying in power and launching now and than an obsolete airplane, he forces the western coalition to stay in the air, 24h, over the entire country.
Western military is struggling to cope with the costs of Iraq and Afghanistan. Now this on top.
Simple question: how many cruise missiles you think that the west still has after the initial launch of those 110 missiles ?

I am afraid that this could lead to another war of attrition. All depends on the time that Khadafi can survive, compare it with Iraq.
If his military is willing to fight, it could become a very costly affair, leading to a shameful stalemate for the western countries.
I just give 1 example: what do you think that the west will do if China sends openly a boat full of military hardware to Tripoli to support Khadafi, to get his oil?

The Vietnam War became to be seen by the US populace as a losing game. It was expensive, but we could have financially continued it. But with the continued loss of life (US soldiers), the toll was high. With the loss of support, President Lyndon Johnson did not run for re-election in 1968 and Nixon was easily elected. He continued the war and with Kissinger (Secretary of State) they eventually negotiated an “honorable” withdrawal (note - sarcastic use of word honorable). But they were right, we needed to get out of Vietnam.

I don’t know what the West would do if the “good” Colonel elects to hold out. It does take “boots-on-the-ground” to really effect a change in government and we don’t have the stomach for this now, especially with 2 on-going wars in play now. Yes, it could become a shameful stalemate for the West.

If China elects to send a boatload of weapons, I can foresee the Western Navies putting an embargo and blockade on Libya to prevent the re-supply; if they airlift them, it might be a different game. Stopping a boat is one thing; shooting down a cargo plane is something else.

We’ll just have to wait and see how this plays out. Remember Murphy’s Law – “Whatever can go wrong, will; and it will go wrong in the worst possible way.”

[regi]

yes SJ, you replied in the way I expected.
When I read the western media reports, and hear the western politicians, it seems it will be a walk in the park.
But history has shown differently. Many civilians will die as collateral damage. All kind of hardware will break down. Costs will rise. Each final target will pass by without any open discussion , not even in the media.
It is shocking to see how everybody picks up the same rethoric of the politicians and media.
Saddam remained in power despite the uprising just after his defeat in the first Gulf War. The west enforced a no fly zone, costing truckloads of money.
If Khadafi survives this uprising and remains the boss, what's next?

[smokejumper]

I just noticed in Flight Global that the Danes have joined the fight with F-16's. see: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... libya.html

[sn26567]

I just noticed in Flight Global that the Danes have joined the fight with F-16's.

Just like the Belgians. They had 7 F-16s involved in a NATO exercise in Greece. Instead of flying back to Belgium, they remained in Greece from where they were sent for a few missions over Lybia. They will soon be transferred to Crete or Sicily, closer to Lybia.

[Polleke-NL]

According to the news, the Belgian Vipers will most likely remain where they are, but according to the news it only handles 6 vipers instead of 7 ?