Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

[crew1990]

It seems that OO-SFP (D-AIKG) will be transfered to DUS on 19APR before joining SN fleet.

[Vic Diesel]

Not really.
Typically not dedicated fleet is allocated 2 years in advance - so as an educated guess there would be a decision for 2026/27 max.

As approx 3/year are already planned for Swiss and Austrian shall become replacement for it's own six A321, if staying with Airbus. So around 5-7 deliveries per year are open for allocation.

And likely that the Brand getting Boeing 737 would give it's Airbusses further within the group - but likely from 2027/28.

One last factor to consider - SN and Eurowings share the same NEO engines, the LEAP, whilst Lufthansa, Swiss and Austrian the PW ( with Austrian having short term allocation of LH targeted for NEO's.

Utterly curious which airline of the LH group would get the 737 MAX... I guess naming one would be as good as looking into a crystal ball at the moment.

[DannyVDB]

Well, Eurowings will get at least 6 B738

Entering the fleet (https://sites.google.com/view/europeana ... s/ew/ewewg)

D

[Lux_avi]

Well, Eurowings will get at least 6 B738

Entering the fleet (https://sites.google.com/view/europeana ... s/ew/ewewg)

D

« operated by Smartwings »
Not by Eurowings.

[Atlantis]

Nothing new, but exactly what is communicated since 2 years.

https://simpleflying.com/brussels-airli ... ore-a330s/

A Africa-hub for North America with only 5 or 6 cities there connected to BRU is certainly a weak offer. Nobody believes UA and AC will open more flight from cities in their country.
So the Africa-hub we have now at BRU will be more or less same in 3 to 4 years from now.

It will be more cities, maybe even 8 or 9. That's not yet very clear.
I believe they will...
The Africa hub will be bigger and more important then it is now.

Also don't forget that pilots/crew has to be hired. It will take some time.

But we know that people here wants to see this already as from next Winter. No, no. Wait and see

[oldblueeyes]

Not really.
Typically not dedicated fleet is allocated 2 years in advance - so as an educated guess there would be a decision for 2026/27 max.

As approx 3/year are already planned for Swiss and Austrian shall become replacement for it's own six A321, if staying with Airbus. So around 5-7 deliveries per year are open for allocation.

And likely that the Brand getting Boeing 737 would give it's Airbusses further within the group - but likely from 2027/28.

One last factor to consider - SN and Eurowings share the same NEO engines, the LEAP, whilst Lufthansa, Swiss and Austrian the PW ( with Austrian having short term allocation of LH targeted for NEO's.

Utterly curious which airline of the LH group would get the 737 MAX... I guess naming one would be as good as looking into a crystal ball at the moment.

No matter who would get them, that brand has the chance of getting 40 brand new aircraft over 5 years. Additional upscaling of the order not considered.

Likely a decison would be taken in May 2025 just before the Annual General Meeting.

There are several brands where these aircraft would make sense:

- Austrian - as their long haul fleet would be anyhow moved to B789; and as timing they need to change their A321 around the date the first 737 would arrive ( so if they would get confirmed A321 or A320 the B737 won't go to them)
- Eurowings - the German part needs medium term an upgauging from the A319, on the other hand Eurowings Europe could access attractive employee pools
- Discover - as FRA is going to be long nearly all Boeing, it may make sense to see Discover medium term all Boeing (and short haul would with 737 would be the new Sun Express Deutschland)
- or maybe there would be an unexpected move and LH would consolidate a P2P player with Boeing aircraft, once ITA is done?
- or change the order to something else, eg widebodies and switch back to Airbus as at the same day they ordered 40 B737 MAX and secured 40 options for A320 family?

[Duke]

Not really.
Typically not dedicated fleet is allocated 2 years in advance - so as an educated guess there would be a decision for 2026/27 max.

As approx 3/year are already planned for Swiss and Austrian shall become replacement for it's own six A321, if staying with Airbus. So around 5-7 deliveries per year are open for allocation.

And likely that the Brand getting Boeing 737 would give it's Airbusses further within the group - but likely from 2027/28.

One last factor to consider - SN and Eurowings share the same NEO engines, the LEAP, whilst Lufthansa, Swiss and Austrian the PW ( with Austrian having short term allocation of LH targeted for NEO's.

Utterly curious which airline of the LH group would get the 737 MAX... I guess naming one would be as good as looking into a crystal ball at the moment.

No matter who would get them, that brand has the chance of getting 40 brand new aircraft over 5 years. Additional upscaling of the order not considered.

Likely a decison would be taken in May 2025 just before the Annual General Meeting.

There are several brands where these aircraft would make sense:

- Austrian - as their long haul fleet would be anyhow moved to B789; and as timing they need to change their A321 around the date the first 737 would arrive ( so if they would get confirmed A321 or A320 the B737 won't go to them)
- Eurowings - the German part needs medium term an upgauging from the A319, on the other hand Eurowings Europe could access attractive employee pools
- Discover - as FRA is going to be long nearly all Boeing, it may make sense to see Discover medium term all Boeing (and short haul would with 737 would be the new Sun Express Deutschland)
- or maybe there would be an unexpected move and LH would consolidate a P2P player with Boeing aircraft, once ITA is done?
- or change the order to something else, eg widebodies and switch back to Airbus as at the same day they ordered 40 B737 MAX and secured 40 options for A320 family?

So, all arguments in favour of SN getting the A320 family, and letting the 737's go to other group members...
I hope you're right, I prefer to fly the A320(neo) family...
On one condition though : they should have free wifi available during flight...
Rergards,

Duke

[oldblueeyes]

You'll never know. But any brand would like the economics of getting 40 B737 MAX in 5 years.

[TimTam]

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean.
If you have time to explain it to a layman... (thx).
In any case, will Boeing still exist in five years from know ? They are in dire straits.

[Vic Diesel]

No matter who would get them, that brand has the chance of getting 40 brand new aircraft over 5 years. Additional upscaling of the order not considered.

Likely a decison would be taken in May 2025 just before the Annual General Meeting.

In other words: we will have to keep looking into the crystal ball - it's nothign more than a guessing game at this stage.
Let's see if and how Boeing will rescue itself from the ditch it drove itself into...

[SLM]

Why is there no curtain between business class and economy class on SN european flights? LX, LH, OS flights have always a curtain between these classes. Thanks!

[luchtzak]

Why is there no curtain between business class and economy class on SN european flights? LX, LH, OS flights have always a curtain between these classes.

The curtain has been removed many years ago. My biggest guess is that not all aircraft where equipped with the possibility to install a curtain hence the decision to scrap it on the entire MH fleet.

My second guess is for safety reasons, however less plausible.

I do miss it though, it gives more “cachet” to the feeling of flying business class.

On the other hand: a curtain for one row looks strange

[longwings]

Why is there no curtain between business class and economy class on SN european flights? LX, LH, OS flights have always a curtain between these classes. Thanks!

I've not yet come across a curtain that effectively keeps in the plebeian cabin the uncouth adults wanting to use the lav and the screams of inconsiderate children... (/sarcasm)

[Duke]

Why is there no curtain between business class and economy class on SN european flights? LX, LH, OS flights have always a curtain between these classes.

On the other hand: a curtain for one row looks strange

On a flight from AGP to BRU two weeks ago, there were only 2 passengers in business, sitting in seats 1A and 1F.
A (tall) man sitting on seat 3C twice asked the flight attendant if he could sit in 1C. This was politely but categorically refused...
He said "why can't I sit there? there's nobody...".
In this case, a curtain would have made the point of the flight attendant more easy... right now, there was indeed no (visual) difference between seats in business and in economy...

Isn't the fact that the planes (certainly the A320's) are very often used for flights to touristic destinations, where there is no business class, also a reason for removing the curtain?

Best regards,

Duke

[crew1990]

There is a project to put a proper curtain divider as this is part of a wider project to make the premium product more attractive. But this required some investment. There is unfortunately some other point requiring some big investment wich are higher in the list like the retrofit of OO-SFJ etc.

By the way it does not happend that often to have only 1 row of business. Most of the time there are between 3 and 5 row of business class. On TLV and EVN there is a fix configuration of 16 C-class passenger so 4 rows with pillow and blanket.

[b720]

Why is there no curtain between business class and economy class on SN european flights? LX, LH, OS flights have always a curtain between these classes.

On the other hand: a curtain for one row looks strange

On a flight from AGP to BRU two weeks ago, there were only 2 passengers in business, sitting in seats 1A and 1F.
A (tall) man sitting on seat 3C twice asked the flight attendant if he could sit in 1C. This was politely but categorically refused...
He said "why can't I sit there? there's nobody...".
In this case, a curtain would have made the point of the flight attendant more easy... right now, there was indeed no (visual) difference between seats in business and in economy...

Isn't the fact that the planes (certainly the A320's) are very often used for flights to touristic destinations, where there is no business class, also a reason for removing the curtain?

Best regards,

Duke

Not having the curtain makes C class look cheap, and less and less justifiable to pay the mark up. All (non low cost) airlines have the curtain divide. Even if for one row.

[TimTam]

The absence of a divider curtain is not justifiable. As said by another member, all other non low cost airlines have it. It cannot be a major/expensive investment. It is, in my opinion, a question of respect towards high yield customers. SN's business class on the A319/320 is also far below average in terms of catering (in spite of the recent upgrading, it remains below average). And in-flight service by the flight attendants is also below average. There is no proper business class service.
To come back to the curtain, with other airlines, there is at least one cabin crew who remains in the business class section and if an eco pax ignores the curtain, the f/a tells him/her politely to use the restrooms at the back.
I cannot imagine installing curtains in about thirty aircraft is an expensive investment. Do the new uniforms come for free and for how many SN employees ?

[JOVAN2]

The absence of a divider curtain is not justifiable. As said by another member, all other non low cost airlines have it. It cannot be a major/expensive investment. It is, in my opinion, a question of respect towards high yield customers. SN's business class on the A319/320 is also far below average in terms of catering (in spite of the recent upgrading, it remains below average). And in-flight service by the flight attendants is also below average. There is no proper business class service.
To come back to the curtain, with other airlines, there is at least one cabin crew who remains in the business class section and if an eco pax ignores the curtain, the f/a tells him/her politely to use the restrooms at the back.
I cannot imagine installing curtains in about thirty aircraft is an expensive investment. Do the new uniforms come for free and for how many SN employees ?

SN is a holiday airline.
Businessmen avoid this kind of cheap transporters.
B
No need for curtains, like Eurowings.
Also no biz service

[Duke]

The absence of a divider curtain is not justifiable. As said by another member, all other non low cost airlines have it. It cannot be a major/expensive investment. It is, in my opinion, a question of respect towards high yield customers. SN's business class on the A319/320 is also far below average in terms of catering (in spite of the recent upgrading, it remains below average). And in-flight service by the flight attendants is also below average. There is no proper business class service.
To come back to the curtain, with other airlines, there is at least one cabin crew who remains in the business class section and if an eco pax ignores the curtain, the f/a tells him/her politely to use the restrooms at the back.
I cannot imagine installing curtains in about thirty aircraft is an expensive investment. Do the new uniforms come for free and for how many SN employees ?

I completely agree with you on the absence of the divider curtain. The front restroom is never reserved for the business class passengers only, but is constantly used by all the passengers, at least with Brussels Airlines. Only on Swiss or Luthansa (with the curtain), economy passengers are indeed requested to use the restrooms in the back. So in this way, in a Brussels Airlines aircraft, a business class passenger never "feels" to be in business.

As to the service however, I have to say that on my latest business class flights, I was very satisfied by the in-flight service of the flight attendants. The flight attendants were very friendly, they came along at least two or three times during the flight to ask if I had special requests, and the food was a lot better than a few years ago. On a LH business class flgith two months ago (AGP-FRA), the quality of the meal was disappointing (a cold dish on an evening flight), but not on Brussels Airlines...
So, if Brussels Airlines would be prepared to install a dividing curtain (which is indeed a small investment), and add free Wifi, the business class product will become a lot more attractive...

Best regards,
Duke

[TimTam]

I agree with Jovan2. Whenever I may/can fly business class, I avoid SN (and perhaps also LX). There is indeed a holiday airline mindset among most SN cabin crew (maybe due to management and training).
@Duke : you must have been luckier than me or the service has improved. One can always hope. It's been several months that I flew SN in C in Europe.
Very recently I flew with LX in C between ZRH and LIS. The service and the food were far below average...
(to the moderators : perhaps this discussion should be moved to Brussels Airlines 2024 as it has very little to do with the fleet renewal. Just a suggestion).