Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

[Vic Diesel]

And it seems that the dumping of the Dash-8 "paid off" so much that OS is wetleasing two ATR72 from Braathens for the season...

Which means nothing.
SN using the CRJ from a wet-lease airline this summer doesn't mean they regret their small(er) jumbolino's...

Maybe not and they are in temporary shortage of smaller aircraft for the smaller-range routes (for which a wetlease might be the best response). But at least for some domestic routes (VIE-KLU) and flights into smaller EEU airports, the E195 proved to be not really a good replacement for the Dash-8.

[TimTam]

OK, I understood that SN is last in line when it comes to the Group's priorities. Hopefully, LH Group will not (be allowed to) acquire ITA. Otherwise, SN wil become N° 5 instead of N° 4.
If OS got Embraers and LX A220's, there would be a business model (imho) for the E175-E2 or the A220-100 to fly thinner routes and feeder flights to the UK and Helsinki to only name only a few options.
Or will it be done in an undefined future like the Big Africa hub ? I know SN is last in line and there might be a shortage of pilots. Anyway...

[oldblueeyes]

And the last tutboprops of OS were exchanged with 6 A320. For them it seems to pay off.

Sorry to correct a factual error: the 6 A320 were not meant as a replacement for the Dash-8, but for the phasing out of the A319 sub-fleet. The Dash-8 routes are mainly flown by the E195 - which is also much better suitable for shorter feeder routes from smaller Eastern European airports than the A320.

And it seems that the dumping of the Dash-8 "paid off" so much that OS is wetleasing two ATR72 from Braathens for the season...

Yes, it paid off if you connect the dots.

4×Q400 were historical wetleases eg for Swiss.
Additionally they cut the local flights into Vienna - the LH CRJ900 ensure connectivity to other Hubs. Or trains.

They have now few routes where demand is velow pre Covid and do some wet leases, the 320 ensure large Volumen against Ryanair ( Laudamotion) and Wizz.

And the started earning decent money.

[oldblueeyes]

OK, I understood that SN is last in line when it comes to the Group's priorities. Hopefully, LH Group will not (be allowed to) acquire ITA. Otherwise, SN wil become N° 5 instead of N° 4.
If OS got Embraers and LX A220's, there would be a business model (imho) for the E175-E2 or the A220-100 to fly thinner routes and feeder flights to the UK and Helsinki to only name only a few options.
Or will it be done in an undefined future like the Big Africa hub ? I know SN is last in line and there might be a shortage of pilots. Anyway...

It' s not last priority, but you need to see the reality - it developed from a half AVRO's operating regional airline and profitability is weak.

ITA should come, in euch Form ever.

Your thinking gap is that you see SN only - and the Brand does not operate standalone.

Why do you need regional Jets for UK Pax? If they can fill 320 is fine, if not, there is no need for tiny routes.

You can likely see that there is no new 90 or 100 seater LH would buy. They give this to wetlease partners.

The next wave to be ordered are regional Jets to replace the CRJ900 ( if not outsourced) and ERJ 190/195. Nothing before 2028-2030.

Again - the long term strategy for LH was 1 narrowbody fleet for SN - initualky targeted for C300/A223 - but profitability was weak and Belgian views those days different, now A320.

And you'll have a new Passenger Business member of the Board who is Belgian as from July 1st. Do you think He would change this strategy?

[oldblueeyes]

And the last tutboprops of OS were exchanged with 6 A320. For them it seems to pay off.

Sorry to correct a factual error: the 6 A320 were not meant as a replacement for the Dash-8, but for the phasing out of the A319 sub-fleet. The Dash-8 routes are mainly flown by the E195 - which is also much better suitable for shorter feeder routes from smaller Eastern European airports than the A320.

And it seems that the dumping of the Dash-8 "paid off" so much that OS is wetleasing two ATR72 from Braathens for the season...

Yes, it paid off if you connect the dots.

4×Q400 were historical wetleases eg for Swiss.
Additionally they cut the local flights into Vienna - the LH CRJ900 ensure connectivity to other Hubs. Or trains.

They have now few routes where demand is velow pre Covid and do some wet leases, the 320 ensure large Volumen against Ryanair ( Laudamotion) and Wizz.

And the started earning decent money.

To the replacements :

The A320 CEOs are replacement for the Q400.
The A320 NEO's ramp up afrer downsizing the 319 fleet.

[TimTam]

New article but also payware :
"Fleet planning is progressing [for expansion in Africa], but Brussels has to take a back seat for now, according to CEO von Boxberg"

Source : https://www.airliners.de/staerkung-dreh ... eren/73841

@ obeyes
When the CEO says "Brussels has to take a back seat for now", it is synonymous (for me) to be last in line.
And no, I don't see SN as a stand alone airline. However, I will not fly to Helsinki, just one example, via FRA. Fortunately there is Finnair.
If ever this Big Africa hub becomes reality, SN might also need feeder flights from large cities which may not fill sufficiently an A320.
Relying (only or) mainly on UA/AC as feeders to Africa seems to me an overoptimistic scenario.

[oldblueeyes]

Well, you need to face 2 realities:

- all brands not able to afford new aircraft getthem when intra group aircraft become available - as long as B789 and 3359 are delayed, everyone in the queue is getting it's aircraft later - unless it has an economic case like OS with the 2 extra 788

- a Brand does not have to Serve everyone- if your preferences are not served by SN, so what - airlines do what is most profitable for them, we choose what is most rationale for us- if there would be so many Gold meines untapped other would go for them

[oldblueeyes]

Nothing new, but exactly what is communicated since 2 years.

https://simpleflying.com/brussels-airli ... ore-a330s/

[nathan_06]

Nothing new, but exactly what is communicated since 2 years.

https://simpleflying.com/brussels-airli ... ore-a330s/

so in may we will know how many a320neo’s SN will get according to that article.

[oldblueeyes]

Not really.
Typically not dedicated fleet is allocated 2 years in advance - so as an educated guess there would be a decision for 2026/27 max.

As approx 3/year are already planned for Swiss and Austrian shall become replacement for it's own six A321, if staying with Airbus. So around 5-7 deliveries per year are open for allocation.

And likely that the Brand getting Boeing 737 would give it's Airbusses further within the group - but likely from 2027/28.

One last factor to consider - SN and Eurowings share the same NEO engines, the LEAP, whilst Lufthansa, Swiss and Austrian the PW ( with Austrian having short term allocation of LH targeted for NEO's.

[TimTam]

Talking about harmonization... Just out of curiosity, does anyone have an idea why SN and Eurowings are getting different engines than LH, LX and OS ?

[sn2047]

Talking about harmonization... Just out of curiosity, does anyone have an idea why SN and Eurowings are getting different engines than LH, LX and OS ?

I would guess it is to reduce the risk in the event of specific engines being grounded. It wouldn't bring the entire group's neo fleet down. And then it's simply a case of assigning them in a logical way. It's not ideal to have one airline with two types of engines on the same plane because it increases complexity.

[fcw]

Talking about harmonization... Just out of curiosity, does anyone have an idea why SN and Eurowings are getting different engines than LH, LX and OS ?

Just out of curiosity, are you aware of the issues with the PW1000 engines?

[oldblueeyes]

Talking about harmonization... Just out of curiosity, does anyone have an idea why SN and Eurowings are getting different engines than LH, LX and OS ?

Simple :
- at a certain size of subfleet you don't have more synergies, so it is better to put your eggs in more baskets- we speak about around 400 aircraft of A320 family and similar B737
- both engines for A320 were ordered steaight from the beginning, just that LH and LX got their first, so now it' s more LEAP orders left
- there is a clear ideal to have brands grouped in order to be able to have Quick changes between the brands if needed

[TimTam]

Thank you.

[oldblueeyes]

Nothing to thank.

I am neither an insider nor a an employee having understandable interest or fear on my job.

Just trying to to follow the logic communicated by management and their steps - regardless if right or wrong.

[JOVAN2]

Nothing new, but exactly what is communicated since 2 years.

https://simpleflying.com/brussels-airli ... ore-a330s/

Simplyflying is one of the websites on aviation.
And Shah a good reporter.

Still, this " interview " is quite weak

Reporter does not go deep with his questions and is happy with very superficial answers .
...pursue plans...looking into options...intentions...


A Africa-hub for North America with only 5 or 6 cities there connected to BRU is certainly a weak offer. Nobody believes UA and AC will open more flight from cities in their country.
So the Africa-hub we have now at BRU will be more or less same in 3 to 4 years from now.

Furthermore, feeder flight from UK are terminated, so SN will miss lots of UK pax.

Their choice will go to AF/KL with 5 to 10 times more cities and flight connected via CDG
and AMS.

If SN becomes a holiday airline like EW it is very sad for Business in Belgium.

[TLspotting]

I guess that he only got a few minutes for his interview. Seems that Dorothea von Boxberg isn't that reachable for a long and deep interview.

[oldblueeyes]

The interview has just common sense answers, nothing more, nothing less.
It is not intended to satisfy the curiosity of aviation geeks and it is neither black or white.
And everything stated there is in line with what the LH Group is practicing as modus operandi, outside of some tactical fleet allocations:

- focus on renewal waves of subfleets : now the short haul first, widebodie when they will be due
- new allocation of aircraft within the group on regular basis ( similar to the current bunch of NEO's)
- looking to catch passengers from US towards Africa ( please remember here there are as well the JV Partners who have a word to say - SN is not Swiss or LH to be an established member of the club)

The job ultimatel to deliver more profits - not more historical routes to the UK regardless of their economics, nor additional emplyoment and aircraft at SN if TATl connectivity can work via aircraft operated by the JV partners.

It's likely that we'll see more connectivity to the major Star Hubs in the US, but not to any airport and not necessarily operated by SN.

SN's job is primarly to fly to Africa and earn more money in Europe.

[Kapitein]

Nothing new, but exactly what is communicated since 2 years.

https://simpleflying.com/brussels-airli ... ore-a330s/

A Africa-hub for North America with only 5 or 6 cities there connected to BRU is certainly a weak offer. Nobody believes UA and AC will open more flight from cities in their country.
So the Africa-hub we have now at BRU will be more or less same in 3 to 4 years from now.

It will be more cities, maybe even 8 or 9. That's not yet very clear.
I believe they will...
The Africa hub will be bigger and more important then it is now.