Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

[teach]

Because that is not the next SN plane...

So which one will it be then?

[RTM]

Not up to me to disclose...

But it is still listed in airfleets as active with Singapore airlines, but in fact is allready retired. Also not the kneeling one.

[Airbus A330]

Hello,
Yesterday was a really exciting Friday with the release of the 2016 expansion plan

Any info about the reg of this 9th A330

[VT-JEF]

9V-STI Then?

[Airbus A330]

I wrote my previous post too quickly and wasn't complete.
I asked in fact for the future Belgian reg...

[Boavida]

Small comparison between the LH subsidiaries:

- SN: 45 planes (+ 2 orders / second hand). Total of 10 long haul planes.
- OS: 80 planes (+ 19 orders). Total of 11 long haul planes.
- LX: 80 planes (+ 55 orders + 40 options). Total of 38 long haul planes.

Impressive Swiss! Poor SN...

[RoMax]

I don't really see the point of the comparison actually. I don't think it's something new that OS and especially LX (with on average larger aircraft than OS) are a lot bigger than SN (although SN is growing much more rapidly over the past two years). Almost all orders of OS are for Embraers from LH Cityline to replace their terribly old Fokker fleet (on average almost 22 years old compared to 'just' 17 years for SN's remaining Avro's). Swiss has some very nice fleet plans with a lot of brand new aircraft (77W, CSeries, A32Sneo), but they kinda deserve it, they are by far the most profitable (and most consistenly performing) airline in the group with margins that most full service airlines can only dream of.

Besides, SN has much more than just 2 'orders', many more A319's and A320's will also join the fleet in the coming years.

[convair]

Small comparison between the LH subsidiaries:

- SN: 45 planes (+ 2 orders / second hand). Total of 10 long haul planes.
- OS: 80 planes (+ 19 orders). Total of 11 long haul planes.
- LX: 80 planes (+ 55 orders + 40 options). Total of 38 long haul planes.

Impressive Swiss! Poor SN...

Interesting comparison.
Both Austria and Switzerland have less inhabitants than B (about 9 million each).

S has a special historical political situation (neutrality, hence a lot of international institutions...) that has been a favorable factor for the development of its international connections and of its "official" airline. No valid comparison with SN is possible.

A is much larger than B and has a lot of domestic flights, as well as several (mini-)hubs; moreover, OS has traditionally (since the "cold war" days) put emphasis on connecting the West with Eastern Europe; for these 2 reasons OS has a larger short/medium haul fleet than SN.

On the other hand, their l/h fleet consists of 6 763s and 5 772s and they have stated that there will be no addition in 2016.
So, if SN adds 2 333s next year, its l/h seat number will be about equivalent to that of OS, which might seem logical. However, OS doesn't have an Afi network and one can wonder why OS is more present than SN in the "Rotw".

[sn26567]

Sabena also has an impressive fleet, much larger than the needs of a country like Begium thanks to a lot of transit and transfer traffic in Brussels. Sabena was bigger than Austrian in 2001. Their fleet also happened to be quite recent. But everybody knows how Swissair mishandled Sabena and brought it to bankruptcy...

[lumumba]

Sabena also has an impressive fleet, much larger than the needs of a country like Begium thanks to a lot of transit and transfer traffic in Brussels. Sabena was bigger than Austrian in 2001. Their fleet also happened to be quite recent. But everybody knows how Swissair mishandled Sabena and brought it to bankruptcy...

I'm agree that Swissair mishandled SABENA but the fault was also with SABENA.
They never ( or 1 year only ) made any profit....

[Jetter]

S has a special historical political situation (neutrality, hence a lot of international institutions...) that has been a favorable factor for the development of its international connections and of its "official" airline. No valid comparison with SN is possible.

The same can be said about Belgium, as capital of the EU and multiple other international organisations.

But everybody knows how Swissair mishandled Sabena and brought it to bankruptcy...

You can't leave out SN staff, their mentality played a big part as well. If they would have accepted more cuts and didn't strike as much Sabena might still be alive today.

[Conti764]

Sabena was what the NMBS is today... A poorly run state company with a government attitude that was deadly in the competitive liberated airtravel market.

[Boavida]

^^ The difference with the NMBS (or better SNCB in this case...) is that it's the (syndical) unions who are still living in another era, while the government is trying to do something about it.

[JOVAN]

Small comparison between the LH subsidiaries:

- SN: 45 planes (+ 2 orders / second hand). Total of 10 long haul planes.
- OS: 80 planes (+ 19 orders). Total of 11 long haul planes.
- LX: 80 planes (+ 55 orders + 40 options). Total of 38 long haul planes.

Impressive Swiss! Poor SN...

SN looks still slow and poor, but it is nice to se the recent growth figures, and finally a good and ambitious plan to replace 9W.
Quite a change.
So there is reason to be optimistic.

More destinations to USA will be necessary anyway.

BRU is a jewel that is still to be polished.

Collaboration between BRU and SN seems to work now.
BRU could become the most efficient and convenient airport in this part of Europe, with a better organization for transfer, passport control etc. FAR, CDG, LHR are nightmares..

As for the short haul fleet expansion: EMBRAER seems to be the best choice in terms of comfort, efficiency..

Instead of using BMI planes, it would be a sign of ambition to use own metal on German, French & British destinations.

Finally, the catching area of SN and BRU reached all the way to Paris, Amsterdam, Dusseldorf....

[Conti764]

BRU could become the most efficient and convenient airport in this part of Europe, with a better organization for transfer, passport control etc. FAR, CDG, LHR are nightmares..

A Pier West offers such opportunity to Star Alliance as the home alliance at BRU. Offer smooth connections and transit times INT-EUR/EUR-EUR/INT-INT. In older plans APW was going to offer 14 widebody gates, I hope BRU might foresee the possibility to expand it further when deemed necessary...

Lower landing fees and the advantages stated above might trigger some airlines (notably Star) to move (part of) their ops from surrounding airports to BRU, being the only Star airport in the vicinity far from being congested an still plenty of slots available. SN has a role to play as well, by offering more frequent connections to Europe... Them enlarging capacity by replacing Avro's with Airbusses is a good step in that direction, but they also need a second European bank and more regional airports connected through BRU...

[crew1990]

^^ The difference with the NMBS (or better SNCB in this case...)

What do you mean, Nmbs is sncb...

[brusselsairlinesfan]

Small comparison between the LH subsidiaries:

- SN: 45 planes (+ 2 orders / second hand). Total of 10 long haul planes.
- OS: 80 planes (+ 19 orders). Total of 11 long haul planes.
- LX: 80 planes (+ 55 orders + 40 options). Total of 38 long haul planes.

Impressive Swiss! Poor SN...

SN looks still slow and poor, but it is nice to se the recent growth figures, and finally a good and ambitious plan to replace 9W.
Quite a change.
So there is reason to be optimistic.

More destinations to USA will be necessary anyway.

BRU is a jewel that is still to be polished.

Collaboration between BRU and SN seems to work now.
BRU could become the most efficient and convenient airport in this part of Europe, with a better organization for transfer, passport control etc. FAR, CDG, LHR are nightmares..

As for the short haul fleet expansion: EMBRAER seems to be the best choice in terms of comfort, efficiency..

Instead of using BMI planes, it would be a sign of ambition to use own metal on German, French & British destinations.

Finally, the catching area of SN and BRU reached all the way to Paris, Amsterdam, Dusseldorf....

In fact, SABENA used to fly to AMS, CDG, DUS & LUX in order to catch all potential PAX living in this catchment area!

[RoMax]

As for the short haul fleet expansion: EMBRAER seems to be the best choice in terms of comfort, efficiency..

Instead of using BMI planes, it would be a sign of ambition to use own metal on German, French & British destinations.

It doesn't have much to do with ambition I would say. SN will always have a relatively small fleet, however given SN's network, that small fleet has to fulfill very diverse needs. Having 2 or even 3 subfleets in such an already small total fleet is very expensive. It's much better for SN to focus around the A320 family for short and medium haul and A330 for long haul. Everything that can't be served with this fleet, should be served under so-called "white label" contracts such as with bmi or Flybe. There is not point in being 'ambitious' in a way of doing everything yourself, when that's not an efficient way of working and actually limiting the potential of the company. That's something that more and more airlines in Europe are also realising (e.g. SAS and airlines like BMI, CityJet, etc. that are increasingly focusing their business models on such contracts). Operating regional aircraft in a mainline fleet is not efficient anyway, something the US majors realised a very long time ago already.
However what I do think should be done, is adapting the product and branding more towards that of the mainline carrier that the contractor is flying for. However that's difficult for just 1 or a few aircraft, so only realistic when there is a larger fleet of regional aircraft being operated for SN in this case.

[Jetter]

BRU could become the most efficient and convenient airport in this part of Europe, with a better organization for transfer, passport control etc. FAR, CDG, LHR are nightmares..

You conveniently leave out AMS, that's hard to beat when it comes to transfer convenience, especially since they introduced central security. AMS shows the possibilities without the O&D of cities like London and Paris, if the current trend continues it's gonna have the most flight movements out of all European airports in 2016 or 2017. BRU can do the same, but to have anything like the old Sabena is gonna take a long time.

Finally, the catching area of SN and BRU reached all the way to Paris, Amsterdam, Dusseldorf....

I would agree with the north of France and the south of The Netherlands, but not Paris and Amsterdam imo. I can't think of any destination that isn't serviced at CDG/AMS that is served by BRU and the travel time is too long to be competitive when a direct flight exists. Only exception is maybe some African destinations from AMS that aren't served directly there.

[Conti764]

Jetter, you are right about AMS, but I too believe BRU (and SN) have some to gain there. AMS is a transfer power hub, but doesn't have the O&D potential Paris or London have.The tandem BRU/SN could attract more (primarely Star) traffic currently flying to AMS (and to a lesser extend CDG) by offering smooth connections to the rest of Europe.

Everything North of Eindhoven/Rotterdam and around or beyond Paris isn't worth the effort, but BRU and SN can gain significant market share in between.

To wrap it up, there are still some markets where AF and KLM have a (near) monopoly. By undercutting their fares and offering a convenient schedule/good service, SN can bite into this monopoly and hmgain some more market share.

SN can't win on capacity or network, so they should beat AF/KL on service...