future of BMI, SN to Heathrow

[airtrotter]

I think the news of LH restructuring BMI and the fact SN will take over the routes to LHR deserves a new topic

Unfortunately bmi will be suspending the following services:

- Our London Heathrow-Amsterdam service will be suspended on 27 March 2010

- We will be suspending our London Heathrow-Tel Aviv service, with the last flight departing London on 9 January 2010, and the last flight departing Tel Aviv on 10 January 2010

- Our London Heathrow-Kiev service will be suspended on 10 January 2010

- As well as London Heathrow-Aleppo, with the last departure from London being 9 January 2010 and the last departure from Aleppo being 10 January 2010. Note our London Heathrow-Damascus service will continue to operate as usual.

We will also be transferring our London Heathrow-Brussels service over to Brussels Airlines from 10 January 2010.

If you hold a direct booking on one of our suspended services you will be contacted by bmi after 2 December to discuss your alternative flight options or to receive a full refund. We will be contacting customers in travel date order. Customers booked through a travel agent should contact their travel agent after 2 December to discuss their options.

We sincerely apologise for the inconvenience caused.

======

Originally Posted by bmi
25 November 2009

bmi is to codeshare on extra Brussels Airlines operated flights. Following routes are involved:

• Barcelona
• Berlin Tegel
• Bilbao
• Bologna
• Geneva
• Hamburg
• Lyon
• Marseille
• Milan Malpensa
• Toulouse

I really feel sorry for the people at BMI that are about to lose their jobs. Luckily, they will keep some of their routes and maybe in the future find their niche.
On the other hand, good news for SN!
Will SN wet-lease planes from BMI for BRU-LHR, like LX does on GVA-LHR? Or will SN fly their own metal?

greetings

[tolipanebas]

Interesting as well is the fact BD is going to cut it's longhaul fleet and return 2 A330s to the lessor in the first half of 2010... Now, I know these are 'just' A330-200s, but still they could be great and quick additions to the long haul fleet of SN which is in urgent need of expansion.

[BrightCedars]

I didn't find the original topic on the bmi restructuring. I'm surprised to read that TLV is suspended while bmi has been adding capacity continuously on this route.

Other than that, removing bmi from AMS means that Star Alliance is counting on BRU and the continental hubs to cater for that source of trafic. It will be interesting to see whether SN will one day use these slots they always request from AMS and turn down at the last minute.

SN surely has enough hardware to take care of the LHR link, and it's not like an A320 family aircraft or two cannot be shifted inside the group one way or another.

One sure thing is that LH is busy at work with BD. I just hope there's a positive outcome to this as far as an aviation fan is concerned, not just the bean counters.

[BrightCedars]

Interesting as well is the fact BD is going to cut it's longhaul fleet and return 2 A330s to the lessor in the first half of 2010... Now, I know these are 'just' A330-200s, but still they could be great and quick additions to the long haul fleet of SN which is in urgent need of expansion.

Are they keeping any? And on what routes then?

[sdbelgium]

They will keep one A330, but I don't know for what routes... Maybe Damascus or Riyadh, but I'm not sure.

[tolipanebas]

Other than that, removing bmi from AMS means that Star Alliance is counting on BRU and the continental hubs to cater for that source of trafic. It will be interesting to see whether SN will one day use these slots they always request from AMS and turn down at the last minute.

Anybody has an idea as to the flight schedule they file for in their requests?

I'd reckon SN would need to go to at least 4 times daily to make this work.

Personally, I'd never see them return to AMS, but then again, up until a few days ago (when LX announced it was going to launch GVA-LHR with BD slots), I wouldn't have thought SN would ever return to LHR either, yet they will (and soon), so who knows? If they do, it must happen next year then, otherwise there's no more need for it, given the fact the diabolo project will soon link AMS with BRU.

Whatever the future has in mind, it looks like LH sees SN as a key element to their future strategy; the same can not be said from BD....

[tolipanebas]

Now also in the news:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... -jobs.html

[Bralo20]

Well with bad news comes also good news, at least for travellers...

I assume that the ERJ's will be gone and that SN will fly with own metal. And this has probably also as result that the BD lounge will be closed and that the SN lounge will become the *A Gold lounge which is very good news since SN's lounge is much better then BD's lounge.

[Charlie Roy]

In another forum I read that SN will be dropping Brussels to London Gatwick
Meaning no Gatwick connection, the BRU - LON market will descrease in size, less passengers for Brussels airport.

[RoMax]

Is this official already about the Gatwick route? I suppose they can drop the evening flight, but the morning flight?
But even "if" SN will drop their Gatwick service, BMI is operating with ERJ's from LHR, SN will fly minimum an Avro, almost the dubbel of an ERJ his capacity.

[sdbelgium]

LGW is still loaded in the GDS, twice daily, even beyond 11 January.

[Charlie Roy]

http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports ... ost5339212
Post 1645 here says how BRU-LGW will be dropped.
I messaged "Flightrider" to ask his source but only received a vague answer:
"I was advised yesterday that this is on the cards."

So hopefully this is indeed a vicious rumour and my apologies if I have also been responsible for its propagation.

[sdbelgium]

If they drop LGW-BRU, there will be NO connection between BRU and LHR by *A-carriers, except for the daily United flight (which doesn't offer a lot of frequency).

SN: "No plans to fly to Heathrow (yet)" (Dutch)

[FlightMate]

Is it wise for SN to pick up BD flights to LHR?

I mean, all the BD flights were almost empty, and all BA were full. Competition is tough on this route.
But I guess receiving the slots is a good thing indeed. Then they can decide what to do.

[134flyer]

If they drop LGW-BRU, there will be NO connection between BRU and LHR by *A-carriers, except for the daily United flight (which doesn't offer a lot of frequency).

SN: "No plans to fly to Heathrow (yet)" (Dutch)

It is indeed a bit confusing; the BD press release is not clear if the SN flights to LGW are meant or that SN in future will fly themselves to LHR:

bmi will, however, continue to offer services from London to Brussels through a codeshare arrangement with Brussels Airline

So Geert Sciot might be right that the media have misinterpreted the press release, as LHR has indeed not been specifically mentioned in the BD press release. However, from the e-mail sent by bmi's Diamond Club (as can be read in the very first post above as well):

In addition, we will be transferring our London HEATHROW-Brussels service over to Brussels Airlines from 10 January

Personally, I cannot believe that there won't be any Star Alliance flights from BRU to LHR in the future (apart from the useless UA flights, which will most likely stop by the start of the Summer season anyway). So although Sciot is for now denying that SN will fly to LHR themselves, he also said that they are examining different options and that no decision has (yet) been taken. Anyway, last week there were already rumours popping up everywhere that SN would get an extra A319 to take over the LHR flights from BD...

[NCB]

Don't get too excited too soon, I'd say.

The only good thing about it is the increased feeding potential to Africa... but that is limited to the morning departures out of BRU, the rest of the traffic eg. excess frequencies in the afternoon is still in competition with Eurostar, VLM, BA. LH is sending an A319 to SN to operate this route as decent feeding capacity will be needed.

Also, this doesn't mean anything with regards to SN being more important than BD in LH's long-term strategy.
LH bought shares in BD to grow it into the longhaul airline at LHR, not for fun. LH did not manage to grow it into a longhaul airline though LHR has a huge potential and though LH promised alot.
Result: they are now reducing BMI into a "regional airline".

Be under no illusion that if SN doesn't grow in Africa to present good to excellent financial results, its African operations will be absorbed into LH and LX and SN reduced into a "regional" airline. This is more a warning towards SN than good news...

By the way, SN will be flying to LHR.
The reason SN are denying is because they can't comment until it is announced officially, probably on the Star event. I wouldn't be surprised to see the A319 from LH for LHR presented at BRU in Star Alliance colours.

[134flyer]

Also, this doesn't mean anything with regards to SN being more important than BD in LH's long-term strategy.LH bought shares in BD to grow it into the longhaul airline at LHR, not for fun. LH did not manage to grow it into a longhaul airline though LHR has a huge potential and though LH promised alot.
Result: they are now reducing BMI into a "regional airline".

NCB, your comments are highly subjective, and do not reflect the general consensus about LH & BD. 10 years ago LH bought a minority stake in BD. Since then, BD's management continued to do whatever they pleased, pretty much without LH's influence. So it was not LH who didn't manage to grow it into a longhaul airline, BD management scr%wed it up themselves by changing direction many times! The majority owner of BD made use of his right to force LH to buy his stake, although LH actually was not that interested anymore. Therefore the legal battle about this purchase. In the end, they made a deal with the majority owner anyway and LH also bought SK's stake in BD as well, to get full control. LH found one big (financial) mess at BD, with many skeletons hidden in the closet. It is stil undecided what they will do with BD; keep it, sell it, shut it down... Anyway, to stop the bleeding at this very moment, they are now taking drastic steps, like announced today. What the future will bring for BD? Nobody knows... The reason why (and conditions under which) LH bought SN are totally different. SN (& OS) are much more important than BD in LH's long term strategy, at least regarding BD as an airline. I'm not talking about LHR slots, which might be the only interesting thing BD still has left. But BD's future as an airline within the LH group?

Be under no illusion that if SN doesn't grow in Africa to present good to excellent financial results, its African operations will be absorbed into LH and LX and SN reduced into a "regional" airline. This is more a warning towards SN than good news...

I really can't see how you can come up with such a conclusion that this is a warning to SN... Once again, BD is a totally different story. Nevertheless, as long as subsidairies of LH make a profit, they can pretty much operate quite independently. However, if they don't, well then indeed LH might step in. But LH wouldn't have bought SN, if SN didn't have any potential. At least LH has full financial insight at their subsidairies all the time, something which couldn't be said about their relationship with BD...

[tolipanebas]

Is it wise for SN to pick up BD flights to LHR?

It's definitely worth taking over at least SOME of the flights between LHR and BRU!

I can indeed imagine SN not being interested in running a full schedule with 6 flights per day, as they might have a hard time competing against BA in the afternoon, but the morning schedule should definitely be kept as the connection is key to bringing in high yielding pax from the london area for its flights to AFI, as LGW is serving a completely different market, notably that of the south of England. Both airports are complementary far more than they are overlapping, so LGW is not an alternative to cover the top yielding market of the london area itself.

What would be a viable option IMHO is to take over at least a few of the 6 daily flights, operate some of them with own metal (notably those in the morning, which see good loads to AFI) and have bmiregional operate the other flights, so SN/BD can offer connectivity to the European network of SN throughout the day.

Interestingly enough, bmi has told its employees in relation to the 2 Emb145s operating to BRU and which will be returned to bmi regional in January, that bmi regional is in talks with potential customers to place those 2 planes, meaning obviously a wetlease of some sort. Could this be SN, maybe? After all, bmi is already operating wetleases for both LH (TXL) and LX (GVA), so the idea to have them operate on behalf of SN is not that far stretched, especially not since they could be providing a plane with a seating capacity SN doesn't have in its fleet...

It would also fit the talk from SN then, which says they are still evaluating what to do.
My bet is they are not so much evaluating IF they need to take over the route to LHR, but more HOW they are going to do it and HOW OFTEN they need to serve LHR.

To me it sounds like SN were taken somewhat by surprise by the decision of BD to simply halt BRU all together (and so soon!) and so they are (as always) not fully ready yet, because as somebody else pointed out already, contrary to what Sciot is trying to make us believe, BD has SPECIFICALLY mentioned LHR-BRU as a future SN route in their direct mailing to its affected customers, so let's not be fooled here: there's no misunderstanding whatsoever involved! Either somebody is blowing smoke deliberately to buy more time, or bmi is simply sending out factually wrong mails to its customers regarding flights in less than 50 days!

Also, it reveils a clear and painful difference in management style between LX and SN.
Whereas LX proactively communicated and made good use of any free slots BD will have as a consequence of its restructuring (the press release about the new GVA-LHR route was send out the day BEFORE bmi announced it was halting AMS and a few other routes, thus freeing up slots at LHR), SN needs to scramble to fix the problem of loosing the all-important link to LHR!

[134flyer]

It would also fit the talk from SN then, which says they are still evaluating what to do.
My bet is they are not so much evaluating IF they need to take over the route to LHR, but more HOW they are going to do it and HOW OFTEN they need to serve LHR.

To me it sounds like SN were taken somewhat by surprise by the decision of BD to simply halt BRU all together (and so soon!), handing over the route to them and so they are not fully ready yet, because as somebody else pointed out already, contrary to what Sciot is trying to make us believe, BD has SPECIFICALLY mentioned LHR-BRU as a future SN route in their direct mailing to its affected customers, so let's not be fooled here: there's no misunderstanding whatsoever involved!

Yes, I see it like this as well. It was rather surprising to read that BD will suspend LHR-BRU already by 10 January! I was rather expecting that it would end when the Summer schedule would start...

Either somebody is blowing smoke deliberately to buy more time, or bmi is simply sending out factually wrong mails to its customers regarding flights in less than 50 days!

Well, could be bmi: you can still book flights to BRU after 10 January on their website... Also, on their UK website they say: "latest news, bmi suspends services''; as if they will shut down alltogether. That's a good message to send out to your (potential) customers

[tolipanebas]

It was rather surprising to read that BD will suspend LHR-BRU already by 10 January! I was rather expecting that it would end when the Summer schedule would start...

So was I.

Interesting to note however that LHR-AMS is going to end at the start of the summer schedule as would seem more appropriate, so this suggests to me that some kind of a solution has been worked out for LHR-BRU behind the scenes, allowing them to wind down the route so soon.

This would then also be fully in line with what they have stated in their direct mailing to customers...

Also, on their UK website they say: "latest news, bmi suspends services''; as if they will shut down alltogether. That's a good message to send out to your (potential) customers!

I've seen that too!

That's indeed the type of message you do not want to send out accidentally, like they've done.

Seems like a centralized communication department at LH would definitely be a good thing to have, because whatever is at the basis of all this confusion, BD/SN are definitely NOT staging a good show here, much in contrast to the BD/LX side of the story! Hate to say it, but this is costing us customers thoughout or entire network, dudes! We're talking flights in less than 50 days here, so better streamline the communication asap....