Cargo B moves to LGG

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 06 May 2009, 17:17

THIS IS OFFICIAL

As from July, Cargo B Airlines is moving all its operations from Brussels Airport to LGG.
Next week they are going to start up again ops to Africa from Brussels Airport but also this will move.

Reason: LGG is more flexible and is open 24/24 for cargo.

What's happening at Brussels Airport?? Are the tariffs and the money Walloon will give again the leading factor? Will all cargo move to LGG in future.

Nevihta · Post by **Nevihta** » 06 May 2009, 17:31

Well, it looks like LGG is becoming more and more attractive regarding its neighbours for cargo.
Could one reason (besides purely economical reasons) be for the cargo B move that they can use their 747-200 without curfew or limitation ?

Acid-drop · Post by **Acid-drop** » 06 May 2009, 20:07

Wow, I didn't expect that, although i'm fallowing very closely all LGG news.
I guess LGG is just more flexible, as you say, probably cheaper too.

Will all cargo move to LGG in future ?

Well, that's the wish of LGG, for sure ... and the plan of many BRU neighbours too ... and plan of the ministers too, that put more and more restrictions. It seems logical ...
At least, it's not too bad for workers, with only 45min between both airports, they may keep their jobs

Now, check SV ... who knows

Could one reason (besides purely economical reasons) be for the cargo B move that they can use their 747-200 without curfew or limitation ?

Could be ... many many -200 in LGG.

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 06 May 2009, 20:27

Acid-drop wrote: It seems logical ...
At least, it's not too bad for workers, with only 45min between both airports, they may keep their jobs

Do you really believe that? Is it logical that people will loose their job in favor of an other airport and this only because LGG can offer lower tariffs because they receive money of the Walloon government? People will work close to their homes, not 45 min away. I don't think that employees will take public transport to LGG from Brussels.

But you will see the same scenario within a few years like here around Brussels Airport. With more traffic, more action groups will come.

The competition between the Belgian airports is very high but the battle is not the same. Brussels Airport can't rely on financial benefits to attract more players and they have no back up (politics).

Acid-drop · Post by **Acid-drop** » 06 May 2009, 20:35

Do you really believe that? Is it logical that people will loose their job in favor of an other airport and this only because LGG can offer lower tariffs because they receive money of the Walloon government? People will work close to their homes, not 45 min away. I don't think that employees will take public transport to LGG from Brussels.

I'm not sure that the walloon gov is giving money for each new company that comes in LGG. But I'm sure many flemish people work in LGG. And I know many people from Liège work in Brussels, so why not the other way ...
Don't know, but i'm naive enough to think it's possible. I don't wish anybody to loose their job.

But you will see the same scenario within a few years like here around Brussels Airport. With more traffic, more action groups will come.

Yes. But LGG is much more prepared, as discussed many times. LGG is a full 24/7 cargo airport, it's clear since the begining

The competition between the Belgian airports is very high but the battle is not the same. Brussels Airport can't rely on financial benefits to attract more players and they have no back up (politics).

BRU surely don't have the same support from politics, but why ... because of those who vote, isn't it ?

airazurxtror · Post by **airazurxtror** » 06 May 2009, 20:49

Atlantis wrote: LGG can offer lower tariffs because they receive money of the Walloon government

There are rules in that matter, imposed and enforced by the authorities of the European Union.
If the Walloon government gives money to LGG, it seems they do it according to the EU rules, as no other party objects.
It is a political choice. The Flemish Government does not seem to have such a positive attitude towards aviation.
The Walloon Government welcomes anything that bring jobs, even if it's noisy like an airport open day and night. The Flemish have much more employment available and make a choice among the possibilities,I guess, meaning less aviation.

Conti764 · Post by **Conti764** » 06 May 2009, 20:55

It's about time for the Flemish government to start countering Walloon investments in their airports, and I am not talking about the Startproject which is completely useless if all your customers are going to other airports.

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 06 May 2009, 21:13

Acid-drop wrote:
The competition between the Belgian airports is very high but the battle is not the same. Brussels Airport can't rely on financial benefits to attract more players and they have no back up (politics).
BRU surely don't have the same support from politics, but why ... because of those who vote, isn't it ?

Nope because aviation is not a topic in one single political party. If it was Open VLD, SP A or CD&V all were not able to solve the problem. It is not a problem of today but a problem of years ago were Brussels Airport is now the victim.

We have to look at the local government. Why are they allowing houses near the runways and the airport?

But that's not the problem in de case of Cargo B and maybe Saudi. Brussels Airport had to made a choice forced by the Flemish Government: be modern, allow only modern aircraft and act like a modern airport (meaning: close your door at 23h and open again at 6h). That's why multiple carriers choose for an other airport. They want flexibility when it comes to cargo.

Second: the noise restrictions. Is it still logic that the Flemish noise restrictions are lower then the Brussels one.

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 06 May 2009, 21:15

Conti764 wrote:It's about time for the Flemish government to start countering Walloon investments in their airports, and I am not talking about the Startproject which is completely useless if all your customers are going to other airports.

Not only the Start project but also Brucargo West and Diabolo. We are speaking about millions of euro.

an-148 · Post by **an-148** » 06 May 2009, 22:34

at least they remain in Belgium, that's the most important in such decisions, or?

(look at SV: nobody knows where they will go: AMS, LGG, other? : the main goal is to keep them coming to Belgium: it will continue to profit to our country)

than the distance to go to job becomes accessory: I know people from Welkenraedt (extreme east) who are commuting every day since 30 - 40 years to work in Brussels.

Acid-drop · Post by **Acid-drop** » 06 May 2009, 22:55

Do we know already when they will move to LGG ?
Any estimation of the tonnage per year ?

an-148 · Post by **an-148** » 06 May 2009, 23:31

do they still fly to South America ? if yes, that could also have another reason than the "always put in the foreground political one":

- if they still fly to S-Am, they maybe lost a part of the freight due to general recession; a substantial part to be replaced by something else.
- on the other hand, those news could be put in correspondance with the first one:
** Dutch mail company TNT is buying its Brazilian delivery partner, Expresso Aracatuba Transportes e Logistica, for 54 million euros ($70.3 million), as part of an expansion of its Brazil operations, the company said. (source: http://news.alibaba.com/article/detail/ ... rgers.html)
Tnt could be interrested to fill a subcontractant's plane to link that new destination with a company established in LGG, also, because there will surely not be enough load for a full jumbo, at least in a first phase..

so, maybe it's only a commercial give-give agreement and not all the above mentionned problems (also if they could be a supplementary reason for moving).

always try to do the best out of a given situation .......

NCB · Post by **NCB** » 07 May 2009, 00:58

I think that it's a wise decision of CargoB in many regards. It's cheaper to operate out of LGG than out of BRU and the night flights problem were probably key factors. CargoB people determined that their business would not be affected by the move, maybe even that it would be stimulated.

Staff is unfortunately but a tool to the people who bet their big money on the business... and working for someone is not only about advantages, one must be flexible.

Shanti · Post by **Shanti** » 07 May 2009, 06:03

Lets hope Cargo B starts also with passengers flights such as TNT airways
from Brussels. You never know.
Fingers crossed!

Desert Rat · Post by **Desert Rat** » 07 May 2009, 08:46

The funny thing is that the Vlamingen governement has a participation of 25% in B cargo....

Therefore I doubt that they will move to LGG, it's just to put pressure on the BRU airport authorities....

Desert Rat · Post by **Desert Rat** » 07 May 2009, 08:54

Atlantis wrote: Reason: LGG is more flexible and is open 24/24 for cargo.

Will all cargo move to LGG in future.

I hope so...

...

LGG needs jobs

Acid-drop · Post by **Acid-drop** » 07 May 2009, 09:07

Desert Rat wrote:The funny thing is that the Vlamingen governement has a participation of 25% in B cargo....

Therefore I doubt that they will move to LGG, it's just to put pressure on the BRU airport authorities....

It's the flemish party that decided the new rules for BRU, I'm sure they knew something like this would hapenned. On the belga release, the noice/schedule limitations seem to be the reason of the move. No surprise. They are not the first one to move, and I guess not the last one ...
Please remember that Belgium is still Belgium. Moving in the same country is better than going to AMS or FRA...

teddybAIR · Post by **teddybAIR** » 07 May 2009, 09:14

Then again: this leaves opportunities for other players at BRU...

By the way: can you believe this emission crap?! I just heard Schouppe on Radio één saying he only allows the most modern aircraft as his genuine concern is to reduce both noise and emission levels in and around the airport. I guess he forgets that thousands of cars drive on the E19, R0, A201, E40, haachtsesteenweg, leuvensesteenweg, etc. every day, and that within a radius of as little as 2NM from BRU...hm, get your priorities straight, I would say!

Best regards,
Tom

flightlover · Post by **flightlover** » 07 May 2009, 09:21

Ok, if it is like this, I think AP will be cutting the number of workers more than they are right now.
Leaving only a small cargo opperation in BRU.

The only reason why BRU is losing cargo traffic is because the Brussels restrictions on noise. Hey what was there first, the people or the airport. No one made them live there but now they want to sell. And the new owners dont want the noise of an airport near them.

Hey does this also count for the most bussy railroad in Belgium? It almost runs thrue our back yard. Cant they move it so we have a nice and quite area to live in? And o yes maybe they also can move or why not close the airport of antwerp, cause the flight route to it is also abouve our house.

Sorry but this gets no respect from me.

The most sad thing about the storry is that Walloon politic party's are doing every thing they can to block further growth of BRU in favor of CRL and LGG. Its all part of the plan to make the Walloon area acceptebale for France after the split of Belgium. Or at least that is how I see it. Or is it all a coincidance what happenes wright now?

Acid-drop · Post by **Acid-drop** » 07 May 2009, 09:36

The director of LGG say in a news that nothing is signed yet. We are only in the negociation step.

The most sad thing about the storry is that Walloon politic party's are doing every thing they can to block further growth of BRU in favor of CRL and LGG. Its all part of the plan to make the Walloon area acceptebale for France after the split of Belgium. Or at least that is how I see it.

This is madness. Who wants to split belgium do you think ?
Think about what you say.

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