BRU winter 09-10: latest news, routes, airlines

[tolipanebas]

(2) As far as I am aware OS only have dedicated C class seats on some planes doing a kind of medium haul flights (Moscow, Cairo ??). On flight from VIE to LHR or FRA or BRU they normally have no C class seats.

That's what I thought too.

No dedicated seats on intra-European short and medium haul, only on those destinations right at the edge of our continent.

(3) It stops an airline to be flexible !! If you install 8 C-class seats you cannot sell more C-class tickets for any flight, even if the demand on certain days and routes might be much higher, this way you loose a lot of money.

And this is a big disadvantage indeed, especially with the booking figures of C class varying heavily according to destination and time of day throughout Europe. Sometimes it's 20, sometimes its zero.
How do you configure your plane optimally then? Are you going to fill half your cabin with C class seats which are often empty, or are you going to downgrade C class pax when you've sold out all the dedicated C class seats? There's a reason why hardly anybody in Europe offers dedicated C class seats.

It the US things are different indeed, but then the domestic flights are longer, making the number of C class pax more constant throughout the entire route network of the airlines.

LH has no 737-400's in its fleet ... Only -300s and -500s. And as far as I am aware LX or OS have no -400s either (about bmi I am not sure ...). So I guess it is part of a fleet harmonisation plan as well. In order to reduce maintenance costs and flexibility within the group it is probably clever to have those relatively few -400s leaving the fleet of the big LH family as soon as possible. If SN will have the need for a short and medium haul plane with a higher seating capacity than the -300s or the A319s, than it will be probably easy to bring in a few A320s or A321s, which are already operated by LH, LX, OS and BMI as well.

BD doesn't have any 737s at all any longer, only Airbus or Embraers (at their regional branche).
All 737s were disposed off some time ago.

I don't see a future for any of the 737s at SN.
It has been said they will all be phased out one by one,as their leases expire in the next few years, although the lessor has apparently offered to lower the rates in an attempt to keep his business.
But then one could ask what sense it makes to operate only 10 737s amid a fleet of over 200 Airbusses at all the different LH branches, especially given the inherently lower onboard comfort of even a brand new 737 versus an A320? There's a reason the A320 has become the benchmark aircraft in its class, and LH are simply in love with them: all of their 'bobbies" as they call their 737s have been earmarked for removal already.

[b720]

OS on their flights to cairo, amman, damascus, erbil, jeddah, riyadh etc..(i think now dubai too) their M.East destinations served with A320s fitted with dedicated c class seats.. some of those flights are evening/night flights others are day flights.. aircrafts dedicated to those routes.. quite popular with m.east business passengers. and am sure quite profitable for the airline

[tolipanebas]

OS on their flights to cairo, amman, damascus, erbil, jeddah, riyadh etc..(i think now dubai too) their M.East destinations served with A320s fitted with dedicated c class seats.. some of those flights are evening/night flights others are day flights.. aircrafts dedicated to those routes.. quite popular with m.east business passengers. and am sure quite profitable for the airline

There you have it.
Those are not medium haul routes in Europe, they are in fact pseudo-long haul routes, although from OS's hub in VIE, the flight times are not that long indeed.

Remember these routes will be seen as 'intercontinental travel' by many corporate travel policies and thus will permit tickets to be booked in C class for most employees and as such OS will see quite a good and steady load up front. Combine it with the fact these routes are often operated with widebodies (which do have dedicated C class seats) by OS's competitors and you have found the reasons as to why they offer dedicated C class seats on these destinations.

You won't see them (or in fact anybody else) do this on a daytime intra-European flights and for a good reason as I have explained.

[Airbus A330]

I have a question for tolipanebas :

Is it today that SN moves from T4 to T2 in MAD ?

[airbuske]

I have a question for tolipanebas :

Is it today that SN moves from T4 to T2 in MAD ?

Yes it is today that SN moves to to T2 at Madrid Barajas.
It's in the same terminal of Spanair.
We can expect an upcoming code share agreement with Spanair.

[Airbus A330]

OK thank you

[tolipanebas]

Indeed, SN will move back to T2, which is a step backwards sadly, but it will permit an imminent codeshare with Spanair, not only on BRU-MAD, but also on selected onward routes.

[Conti764]

OS does..

(1) We all know how succesful OS has been in the past years

(2) As far as I am aware they only have dedicated C class seats on some planes doing a kind of medium haul flights (Moscow, Cairo ??). On flight from VIE to LHR or FRA or BRU they normally have no C class seats.

(3) It stops an airline to be flexible !! If you install 8 C-class seats you cannot sell more C-class tickets for any flight, even if the demand on certain days and routes might be much higher, this way you loose a lot of money.

You have valid points, but why do US airlines do work that way? Is the C-class market so much higher across the pond?

[tolipanebas]

You have valid points, but why do US airlines do work that way? Is the C-class market so much higher across the pond?

For the same reason people still fly C class to DME, TLV, BEY, CAI and beyond: flight time!

What's the average flight time of a so called 'medium haul' European flight of LH/LX/SN?
About 1.5 hours?
Make it 2 hours and you're really at the edge of our continent, so many people won't see it as worthwile to book C class on these routes, apart from the odd and poch destinations like NCE, GVA, MXP at certain times of the day, which means an airline operating these routes in Europe needs a highly flexible cabin interior, able to cope with the changing demand throughout the day and througout the route network.

On the other side of the ocean, domestic routes in the US have a flight time which is at least twice as high as on intra-European routes, thus making C class more attractive to fly in.
Going from ORD to LAX is about the same as going from BRU to DKR you know?
Not to mention the truely long haul East to West coast domestic routes: the equivalent of a BRU-ABJ.
If you're in a plane for 5 or more hours, you tend to be more easily persuaded to fork out some extra money for some added comfort and so as the load in C class is more predictable and constant, it takes away the need to be able to be highly flexible when it comes to cabin configuration and thus the cabin can be tailor fitted with real business seats....

[brusselsairlinesfan]

I will keep my fingers crossed awaiting the 5th A330 announcement @ brussels airlines !!!

[euroflyer]

You have valid points, but why do US airlines do work that way? Is the C-class market so much higher across the pond?

Well, some answers were given already by tolipanebas, another might be: American consumers are just different from European ones (or the other way round ). Americans tend as well to drive bigger cars, to expect a different type of service and so on. So maybe they would not accept that C-class concept which works fine for European customers? Or maybe it is just because no US airline has dared to try this so far ?

[Atlantis]

It's time to give an overview of what we can expect this winter:



Bratislava -> Danube Wings -> frequency unknown at this moment

Danube will fly 4 times a week between Bratislava and Brussels and this on Mon/Tue/Wed and Thu. Flights starts on 26 Oct with ATR72-200

Poprad will get one weekly flight on Thu. Flight starts on 29 Oct with ATR72-200.

[Airbus A330]

Hi everyboddy !
Hainan Airlines will operate BRU-PEK 3X/week on days 2-4-7.

STA 05H30 STD 12H30.

[RoMax]

Only 3 times a week? Past summer and winter 08/09 they fly 4 times a week and in summer 08 even 5 times a week in some periods other periods it was also 4 times. Are the flights performing bad or something?

[Atlantis]

Don't worry MR_Boeing. The last couple of years they flew 3 times a week to/from BRU during winter. There is less demand in this period.
Summer 08 was exceptional because there were the Olympics so we saw from time to time 5 flights a week.

The normal schedule is 4 times during summer and 3 times during winter

[Atlantis]

As from 12.01 Brussels Airlines is going to start codesharing with Egyptair on the four weekly flight to Caïro and the one weekly Luxor flight.

[tolipanebas]

Not only Egyptair's routes to BRU will be opened to SN, other STAR alliance carriers will follow...

BTW- that once weekly flight to LXR, is it operated by Egyptair, or Air Cairo?

[airbuske]

Indeed, SN will move back to T2, which is a step backwards sadly, but it will permit an imminent codeshare with Spanair, not only on BRU-MAD, but also on selected onward routes.

tolipanebas, do you know when they will start with the codeshare with Spanair?

[itami]

other STAR alliance carriers will follow...

Which ones and when ? Any Asian carrier(s) to be expected soon ?

[Atlantis]

BTW- that once weekly flight to LXR, is it operated by Egyptair, or Air Cairo?

Egyptair is operating a one weekly flight (Sunday) from Luxor in combination with Caïro to BRU.