African operations possible with narrow body equipment

[flightlover]

And why not just move these plants into there AFI destinations, it saves on costs of transporting.

And for the critics, and also for fun: If AFI feul is so bad why not use an A330 tanker in support of the A319's? No problems with feul quality and space to transport catering and cargo as well. Maybe they can even sell the non-used feul to other airlines at a premium? According to wiki it has a range of 14800km, enough to make it return in the A319 destination range.

And before you shoot me, THIS IS WAY OUT OF THE BOX THINKING AND MOST PROBABLY NOT TO BE DONE BY ANY AIRLINE AT ALL

[LX-LGX]

I speculate that Senegal Airlines will order around 20 A320 or B737 aircraft at the Dubai Airshow.

Senegal Airlines has signed a MoU for 4 x A320 and 2 x A330-200.

(which is already very very nice)

[RoMax]

But I don't think they will come to BRU. The competition with SN will be to hard even with a good product. They will choose destinations without this big competion.

[134flyer]

I speculate that Senegal Airlines will order around 20 A320 or B737 aircraft at the Dubai Airshow.

Senegal Airlines has signed a MoU for 4 x A320 and 2 x A330-200.

(which is already very very nice)

So no 20 A320 to operate daily non-stop flights to half of Europe

But now more serious; when this topic started in the original thread (‘5th A330 for SN’), the discussion was very interesting. This started to change when a certain plan was proposed. Nothing wrong with that in itself. However, the stubbornness to stick to this plan and the refusal to accept polite input from others resulted in a though discussion, which became more and more heated. This was followed by indifference by many and in the end there were just hilarious posts. Perhaps this was good fun for a while, but actually it was a pity that it ended that way, as we are all here to exchange ideas etc. as well as to learn from each other. So let’s not look back too much, but let’s (perhaps) have a new and 'fresh' start…

AFApresident’s post got me looking at it again, but from a different perspective:

My conclusion is you are all wrong. NCB is way too optimistic in his A32X plans and in what the new Air Senegal will get as a fleet and the others way to pessimistic that it is in all scenarios a bad plan or that SN should only get A330 size of aircraft for Africa, or that indeed sitting idle for SN till they find a cheap A330 is a good idea.

A32X service from BRU to Bamako etc perfectly possible, (catering, operational no issues at all (if TAP can do it with full meal service in both directions than SN can do it too (i.e. somewhere you will find space). But indeed you won't get to the gold coast. So A32X investment could make sense for 2-3 extra destinations in western africa (Bamako, NKC, Ouagadougou etc), but it won't work non stop to Togo, Benin, Nigeria which are simply too far.

In other words get 1 A333 for far flung destinations like Cotonou/Libreville and and get 1 A32X series for a BRU - NKC - BKO - BRU sector and BRU - Ouagadougou - Niamey - BRU sector. The A32X can be swapped around with the Tel Aviv and Moscow destinations who need goodbiz class products if only one african combo sector wants to be started at a time. In the other scenario you do utilize your aircraft 6-7 times a week by doing above 2 flightlines 3/4 times a week each.

Above is more aggressive than what most of your propose and will give SN more power again in Africa + above perfectly realistic in an african environment, yet it is not so megalomeniac as NBC's plans which are indeed simply too optimistic and unrealistic.

I still think it is unrealistic to start a big operation with up to 15 A319’s, flying (only) non-stops to AFI. AFApresident’s suggestion is more realistic, e.g. ‘1 A32X series for a BRU - NKC - BKO - BRU sector and BRU - Ouagadougou - Niamey - BRU sector’, as these are triangals to Western African destinations (so closer by).

Also, the following is still totally unrealistic:

That would mean the wider lie-flat seats even on European sectors instead of the empty seat in-between. That would be a true seller for business class and seats can be sold at higher fares than the empty-seat in-between. If economy class is not full, you can get an empty-seat-in-between at 5 times less the price, so that concept itself is obsolete.
For the shorthaul sectors it's nice for those business pax who had a tough day, they don't neet to lean on the hard window panels to have a nap, they can just recline their seats into a comfortable position and have a very good nap.

The business pax (in both C & Y) which I’ve ‘observed’ (as pax myself) on my many short intra-European trips were working, several even refusing any meals. So comfort-wise I really don’t see a demand on these sectors for F or 'real' C seats; these flights are just too short to enjoy these kind of seats, apart from the fact that companies really will not pay for it. It is just too expensive. On mid & long haul flights however, it’s another story (not withstanding the present crisis).

To continue:

-BD has a mid haul product with ‘US domestic F style seats’ with a proper C service. Also, they offer 'pre-flight dinner’ in their (very nice) lounge for C & Status pax on ‘night flights’.
-OS has a Premium Service to several Middle Eastern destinations with same style seats & service like BD, although they don't have a real ‘pre-flight dinner’ offering (though there is some food to get in the OS Lounges of course).
-SN applied some time ago for a 2nd DME service, of which there even was a press release with flight times:

http://www.domodedovo.ru/en/main/news/p ... l/?ID=2008

Unfortunately, they never got the traffic rights IIRC
-The likes of BD, LX, OS & LH all operate widebodies to TLV (LH from MUC a Privatair 738 with regular LH longhaul C seats and PTV in Y)
-More Star Alliance feed into the network.

So after this short ( ) intro and with the above in mind, I went back to scratch. I also took the input of others into consideration (even including some of NCB’s suggestions, so also some credit to him). After a very subjective and thin market analysis of my own and not taking into account the current economic crisis (especially not in Russia; Business demand really has plummeted), AFI cargo or some other operational constraints, I came up with the following ‘on-the-back-of-an-envelope’ strategy for SN:

-Personally, I still think the best way to go forward regarding AFI, is to add a 5th A330 (and after that, in the longer term a 6th, and perhaps even a 7th one) to add new destinations, increase frequencies and/or fly non stop to present ones. I am not going to speculate here about the (new) destinations.

-Hopefully SN can get the rights for a 2nd DME (night) flight; the connections To Africa will become much better (I’ve seen big billboards at DME, where SN is promoting their Africa network, but now pax have a night stop before their connection to AFI). SN could then start thinking about a small sub-fleet of ‘Premium Service’ A32X’s with lie-flat seats in C. Although DME is ‘borderline’ distance-wise to offer this kind of C service, the 2nd DME flight would be a night-flight, so in connection with offering a ‘pre-flight dinner’, it could become interesting nevertheless. For product consistency, the day-flight could be operated by the same aircraft as well.

-Same style of service to TLV and perhaps opening new routes to e.g. BEY (again, no real market analysis, but BrightCedars will be pleased )

-Let these ‘Premium Service’ night flights (and the DME day-flight as well for consistency) depart from the T-Gates; more convenient for the Schengen transfer pax and there is the very nice SN Sunrise Lounge for the C & Status pax, were they can enjoy the ‘pre-flight dinners’. This Lounge is more appropriate for the ‘Premium Service’ than the present SN Lounge at the B-Pier anyway; it was included in the ‘Business Traveller’s’ list of ‘50 Top Airport Lounges Worldwide’. Besides, the SN Sunrise Lounge is totally unused in the afternoon and evening anyway. Nevertheless, in order to keep this SN Lounge 'exclusive' for the AFI & mid haul flights, keep it closed during the hours when the T Gates are a Schengen aera.

-Regarding the SN Lounge in the B Pier; correct me if I’m wrong, but besides the AFI flights, DME & TLV, the only other non-Schengen flights of SN are those to the UK. So if the departing DME & TLV flights would switch to the T-Gates, the SN pax to the UK can use the BD Lounge. The B-Pier SN Lounge can then be closed or perhaps even better, renovated into a Star Alliance branded lounge (there were plans for a Star Alliance Lounge at BRU already years ago).

-Furthermore: open an (e.g. Star Alliance) Arrival Lounge at the B-Pier, so that long-haul arriving C pax. can have a shower, etc. The SN mid haul C pax should as well be allowed to use the Arrival Lounge for having breakfast etc, so that they can have as much rest as possible after they have boarded their flight in the middle of the night (TLV) or very early morning (2nd DME flight).

-After the SN AFI operation has been expanded with A330’s, there might perhaps be the possibility to operate 1 or 2 ‘Premium Service’ A32X’s in triangals and/or non-stop to a few dedicated destinations (AF didn’t name their A319’s ‘Dedicate’ for nothing). Again, I am at this stage not speculating which destinations and I am not taking into account cargo, operational constraints etc.

This plan also has a lot of ‘if’s & but’s’, with some ‘day-dreaming’ involved as well. But having an expanded A330 operation supported by some A32X, which fly to the 'East' as well, is at least a bit more realistic than the other way round: an AFI operation with a big A319 fleet, operating mostly non-stop flights and which is supported by some A330’s…

I’m open for discussion, suggestions, changes etc. I’m also open for taking NO for an answer

[Kabila]

Surprise, surprise...

Arik Air, Nigeria’s largest commercial airline, today announced the launch of non-stop flights between Abuja and London Heathrow

Arik Air’s Chief Commercial Officer, Mr Suraj Sundaram went on to explain that one of Arik Air’s brand new Boeing 737-800 aircraft ‘Sultan of Sokoto’ would serve the Abuja-London Heathrow route. “Our brand new Boeing 737-800 aircraft is ideally suited for flying medium haul routes and making short turnarounds at airports thereby helping Arik Air to continue providing our guests with a convenient and punctual service. The aircraft is also one of the quietest and most environmentally friendly aircraft operating in the world today. It complies fully with airport noise restrictions and with current and future international emissions standards. The Boeing 737-800 aircraft offers 20 Business Class seats and 126 Economy Class seats offering personal audio and video entertainment including a choice of short programs and a selection of Hollywood and Nollywood movie favourites.

Well... ok, it's not an A319... but it's still a narrow body aircraft... and it can be done. So what are all those would be airline managers on this forum going to say now... ???

So, let's all humbly admit it that these kind of operations can be done with a narrow body and let's give NCB (and myself for being the only one to defend him ) some credit for it... no? Or are all those cry-babies on this topic now going to turn even more agressive??? And attack me now ?

Wake up guys! Even the African airlines have understood that money can be made with A320 / B737 /... and namely with service between West Africa and Europe... by using narrow body aircraft!

So all these theories of cargo and range and operational challenges... can be thrown into the bin no?

This should be a wake up call for SN. As I pleaded earlier, it's time for SN to think out of the box urgently and give this narrowbody operation to west Africa theoryat least a thought. If they don't react quickly, soon Arik Air, Senegal Airlines, Afriqiyah, Air Arabia (planning to set up a second North African hub soon by the way), Egyptair, RAM,... will win the battle. There is still some time to work out a narrow body strategy to AFI, but time is running out fast for SN.

And when you go onto Arik's Air website, you will see that one of the planned future destinations is... BRU ! And trust me, they won't come with an A340 to BRU.

And last but not least, I want to throw in an other airline who operates medium haul flights with A319 and A320... look at Qatar Airways. They fly sucessfully GVA-DOH, ARN-DOH, MOW-DOH with A319's and A320's... and don't tell me these legs are a lot shorter than let's say BRU-Dakar, BRU-Bamako, ... can one of the would-be airline managers on this forum explain how QR can fly profitable with all this cargo potential that they have to leave behind in GVA, ARN,... ?

So my personal message to NCB: don't get offended by all those screaming and negative people on this forum... your idea remains brilliant, as I described earlier. I am still on your side.

[Vinnie-Winnie]

All very well but Arik will fly a premium route with a lot business pax (oil industry) that not carry as much lugage. Now look at SN and its destinations and you will see that it mostly goes to what should be low yielding markets due to the category of passengers its flying but which is compensated by the fact that it is mostly in a duopoly on the AFI market it serves! (Little competition increases the yields in all classes) Furthermore it still relies on healthy cargo revenues due to once again little competition on these destinations

So no the plan still wouldn't work in my opinion! You'd still end up with problems... Ark is flying to an already well served destination and is trying to provide a niche product without caring too much about Cargo as you already have plenty of carriers flying to Europe from Nigeria. Otherwise it would have flown a widebody rest assured!

[134flyer]

Kabila, did you actually read all the previous posts & arguments? Nobody said it is impossible to operate narrowbodies to Africa (in a technical way)! Sure it is possible, just look e.g. at the AF ‘Dedicate’ A319 routes, and now also the new Arik route from Abuja to LHR. However, these are specific high yield ‘Premium’ routes, as Vinnie-Winnie perfectly described above. Please don’t put things out of perspective, as the arguments were e.g. against the following points of the plan of ‘would be manager’ NCB:

-No consideration of cargo, excess luggage, operational constraints
-Operating a fleet of up to 15 A319’s to fly non-stop routes
-Africa…
-Flying with these A319’s on short intra-European sectors as well (with very quick turnaround times), and sell the section with lie-flat seats as F on these sectors
-Etc, etc

I would not call this a ‘brilliant’ plan, but rather a (to quote AFApresident) ‘megalomaniac’ plan…

I’m afraid this whole discussion will go (once again) into the wrong direction…

[NCB]

Emirates Group to support Senegal Airlines

http://gulfnews.com/business/aviation/e ... bled=false

I was right after all about oil tycoons supporting Senegal Airlines...

SN A333 returned to FIH today after technical issues, a technical team has been sent from BRU.
The A333's always carry spares and technicians on flights to Africa...

What's wrong with installing a local technical base once the operations have a decent size?

[LX-LGX]

I was right after all about oil tycoons supporting Senegal Airlines...

No you were wrong. You've told us they were going to order 20 x A320's.

The article says that the agreement "...will cover commercial support, technical expertise, training and aviation-related goods and services..." So Emerates will not invest in new aircraft or so. The deal is also not between Emirates and Senegal Airlines, but between Emirates and the Senegalese governement (minority shareholder, 15%) to help them with the new airport. Which will benefit ... Emirates.

SN A333 returned to FIH today after technical issues, a technical team has been sent from BRU.

Indeed. Nice to see that you've now also discovered the Aviation Herald.

What's wrong with installing a local technical base once the operations have a decent size?

Untill an airline has several flights per day to one destination, it's cheaper the way they do now. Or do you think that Brussels Airlines has never thaught about this?

[134flyer]

Also, from the other thread:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=40177&start=80

According to the press release on http://www.aerocontact.com, DKR-PAR (CDG or ORY), DKR-BRU and DKR-MXP will be operated by 2 A330-200 !

So apparently no A320 to Europe, I wonder why

[NCB]

So apparently no A320 to Europe, I wonder why

Yeah you got it right, their aim is to kill SN, although that is probably not what you meant.
They're not operating A320's to BRU and CDG but they will sending their A320's to other places in Europe, be sure about that. To BRU and CDG they will send A330's to go one on one with AF and SN... which is bad news for SN.

No you were wrong. You've told us they were going to order 20 x A320's.

The article says that the agreement "...will cover commercial support, technical expertise, training and aviation-related goods and services..." So Emerates will not invest in new aircraft or so. The deal is also not between Emirates and Senegal Airlines, but between Emirates and the Senegalese governement (minority shareholder, 15%) to help them with the new airport. Which will benefit ... Emirates.

I was wrong about the number but the A320's are coming in next year already. As soon as they make some money and get a market they'll get another bunch of A320's, a whole bunch of widebodies and SN's share in the African-European market will be reduced to the seeds of an apple... unless they react of course.
At least I have the guts to feed some speculations, handling boy.
What was your guess? Your reputation on a forum is way too important to take that risk.
You just enjoy telling other people they are plain wrong but you don't have the guts nor aviation knowledge to come up with your own idea's nor to start speculation.

Keep behaving like that and make of this forum another Airliners.net II, handling boy.

Nobody said it is impossible to operate narrowbodies to Africa (in a technical way)! Sure it is possible, just look e.g. at the AF ‘Dedicate’ A319 routes, and now also the new Arik route from Abuja to LHR. However, these are specific high yield ‘Premium’ routes, as Vinnie-Winnie perfectly described above.

AF Dedicate is a very different product from Arik Air's B738 product.
20J + 126Y doesn't sound like a very high end cabin to me.

I talked with an SN A319/A333 captain about this and he said that it can work on many of the sub-Saharian destinations, but that each case shall be studied separately before starting operations, which is darn obvious. He also found the European rotation to be a good idea to maximize utilization during the winter but said that some aircraft will have to be either reconfigured or separate aircraft should operate during the summer in a leisure configuration as they generate quite some revenue.
He declined to comment on whether a local catering or technical base could work in case of 5 x A333 + 15 x A319 operations because it's out of his field of knowledge. Some of SN's topnotch pilots declines to comment because he doesn't know and yet some tourists and handlers around here dare to say the idea is garbage.

Also, you are suggesting that doing nothing is better than to operate narrowbody without cargo to Africa.
That's like saying that one should not work and stay home instead of working hard for good money.

Fortunately we don't have to rely on you to keep this industry alive... Got to have a bean-counter's mind if you want to stay alive.

And yes, I work for an airline in airworthiness management and as fleet/network adviser. I'm also adviser for a GA operation. I have done other different jobs in aviation before. Yes, it's my job to come up with these "stupid idea's" every single day, not to say that many of them are put to application by my "stupid bosses".

Incident: Brussels Airlines A333 near Kinshasa on Nov 19th 2009, engine shut down in flight
By Simon Hradecky, created Friday, Nov 20th 2009 14:50Z, last updated Friday, Nov 20th 2009 14:50Z

A Brussels Airlines Airbus A330-300, registration OO-SFN performing flight SN-359 from Kinshasa N'Djili (Democratic Republic of Congo) to Brussels (Belgium) with 125 passengers, had just about reached cruise flight, when the crew observed one of the engines exceeding vibration limits and shut the engine down. The airplane returned to Kinshasa, where the airplane landed safely about one hour after departure.

The flight was postponed to the next day and later cancelled.

http://avherald.com/h?article=423057ca&opt=0

Handling boy LX-LGX, would you be so kind to tell us which A319's will be sent to where to fill the spots of the U/S A333? Arrival flight from NBO for tomorrow morning has been cancelled, it probably didn't leave out of BRU this morning...
If one of 4 or 5 A333's remain U/S for several days or weeks, you get an operational indigestion, huge lost revenue and unscheduled expenses without counting the actual repair.
This kind of problem would be easier and a lot more cost-efficient to manage for a fleet of 15-20 x A319's where any aircraft can replace any other U/S aircraft, including A333's during temporary U/S situations.
The shorter turn-around times can partially compensate for eventual fuel stops, therefore limiting impact on schedules. It avoids paying for expensive hotel bills and losing customers, while keeping revenues coming in.

PS: I got confirmation that fuel quality is not an issue at any of SN's destinations in Africa, but only that price was a significant factor especially inland, far from sources of supply.
SN isn't flying into jungle bush airports where you get Jet A out of rotten 10 year old barrels, so much for that rumor and for the self-declared "specialists" claiming that this is such a huge problem.

Therefore, SN's triangulation and one-stop operation has nothing to do with fuel quality, but as we can see from the above 125 pax example, the low loads generating out of single airports.

This is also a reason why I'd prefer A319 over A320 for new destinations, it has more operational margin thanks to more range and would have less waisted capacity.

PS II: Reading rumours that LH will be sending an A319 to SN... for BRU-LHR. Anyone can confirm?

[134flyer]

As usual NCB, you're going in circles, ignoring other's arguments, projecting your lack of knowledge on others (accusing others about making this Arliners II ), putting things out of context and twisting things around; first you show a lot of disrespect for pilots:

Tolipanebas is a pilot if I'm not mistaken.
A smart pilot can get to know alot about operations but alot of pilots never progress beyond their checklist, charts and cockpit. Many like to hang out their smart asses and try to make other people look ridiculous.
But have many really ever bothered calculating the true economics of their flight? I can answer, it's no.

Now they're suddenly: 'topnotch pilots'

I talked with an SN A319/A333 captain about this and he said that it can work on many of the sub-Saharian destinations, but that each case shall be studied separately before starting operations, which is darn obvious. He also found the European rotation to be a good idea to maximize utilization during the winter but said that some aircraft will have to be either reconfigured or separate aircraft should operate during the summer in a leisure configuration as they generate quite some revenue.
He declined to comment on whether a local catering or technical base could work in case of 5 x A333 + 15 x A319 operations because it's out of his field of knowledge. Some of SN's topnotch pilots declines to comment because he doesn't know and yet some tourists and handlers around here dare to say the idea is garbage.

You are complaining of getting a lot of disrespect here, but you are the one who picked a fight by disrespecting a lot of posters here...

PS II: Reading rumours that LH will be sending an A319 to SN... for BRU-LHR. Anyone can confirm?

YOU tell US, you're the expert with inside knowledge, not?

[Vinnie-Winnie]

So now all of a sudden you work for a company that specialises in airline doing as you say yourself "And yes, I work for an airline in airworthiness management and as fleet/network adviser"

As far as I understand your job is to advise airlines on which aircraft to keep which ones to sell am I correct?

So in one sense you have nothing to do with the Economics of Passengers Travel, but only the opportunity cost of buying/selling an aircraft to replace existing ones.

So how on earth can you pretend to be the authority on AFI passenger operations and the way SN should be organising itself in terms of destinations served and passengers demand which is a prerequisite to fly whatever aircraft to a destination?

Surprised you also haven't commented on Arik's new 737 flight and the arguments put forward including mine. Also given past experiences with African airlines do you really expect Senegal Airlines to become a major operator. What Emirates seems to be doing is some consultancy job. They just gonna earn some money by advising that is it! How can you be so sure that 1) the advise will be so relevant 2) the advise will be followed. I'm not saying that they can't achieve their aims I'm just saying that I wouldn't be too sure about their succes and the capability to hurt SN.

[134flyer]

Nobody said it is impossible to operate narrowbodies to Africa (in a technical way)! Sure it is possible, just look e.g. at the AF ‘Dedicate’ A319 routes, and now also the new Arik route from Abuja to LHR. However, these are specific high yield ‘Premium’ routes, as Vinnie-Winnie perfectly described above.

AF Dedicate is a very different product from Arik Air's B738 product.
20J + 126Y doesn't sound like a very high end cabin to me.

Read my posts! I didn't say that AF Dedicate is the same product as Arik's B738 product!! I talked about high yield 'Premium Routes'. High end cabin has nothing to to with high yields

[134flyer]

In case somebody would overlook this snippet of news:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=40797

Full article (in Dutch):

http://www.standaard.be/artikel/detail. ... s+airlines

The competition is AF/KL, not some African start-up! SN expects twice more pax on their AFI flights, so bring on the A319's!!

[134flyer]

For all who think that the way forward is to operate nonstop flights with A319's to AFI instead of widebodies doing triangals which include those short, inefficient intra-Africa sectors, how about this:

AIRFRANCE from 07DEC09 is adjusting service to Nigeria. Nonstop service to Port Harcourt, currently with Airbus A319LR DEDICATE, is replaced by 1-stop service via Lagos. With the adjustment, current 777-200ER service to Lagos will now be operated by 777-300ER. Schedule as follows:

AF854 CDG1055 – 1705LOS1805 – 1910PHC 77W D 07DEC09 – 27DEC09
AF854 CDG1035 – 1645LOS1745 – 1850PHC 77W D 28DEC09 -
AF855 PHC2110 – 2215LOS2340 – 0545+1CDDG 77W D

Source:

http://airlineroute.net/2009/11/20/af-n ... more-14605

[Desert Rat]

Desert Rat, about the new DKR ops, were you refering to SN or a new start-up?

I was refering to a new start-up, supported by Emirates($$$$$), they should start the ops with two leased A320's and then increase their capacity with the 330's and additionals 320's.

I would not be surprised for another project to start as well a little further north...

[cathay belgium]

NCB,

Just this :
You told us you work in the business .
1. Don't you think that SN hasn't a guy like you (meaning come up with ideas).
That guy would ( if smart and an aviation lover) read this topic and come up with ideas.
Maybe he made already his homework and is the A319 not for LHR but for DKR .
( Maybe you can give us an idea of one of your stupid ideas that was implemented by your bosses
so we have a little idea how your ideas work in real life ! )
But now serious;
If you work in the industry it's not good for your own company to tell smart things to the guys
of other companies.
In that case you better give or try to give them bad advise!
Okay you're right of expecting a new carrier from Africa to compete SN.
But as I read it : a small AFI carrier little supported by Emirates gonna try to compete SN and if
better supported in the future you better can say Emirates Senegal is gonna try to compete LH Belgium
on their AFI market!
2. As we read SN/LH is not sitting still, they're searching an A330 and are gonna reschedule their destinations
for a more economic better served AFI network.
Reading the article of the meeting in Paris SN is the LH brand to do this..
3. The A319 (from BD?) to LHR ? or CDG? for the second flight bringing on AF-pax to BRU for AFI?
4. Once again, stop degenerating people. 'handling-boy'
Some members try to adapt reasons and react on it , you were trying to defend you're plans
by jumping from one conclusion to another, ignoring other people reactions ( for ex. tolipanebas)
in the end bringing on the most ridiculous things on..
( planes for catering,First in intra-europe flights in this climate,start up economics in AFI... )
Okay maybe it could work for your company..
5. Maybe Senegal is starting up but when they are in full Emirates..speed,SN is in hands of LH and
will be have a lot more power to react.
Maybe this in-between time is the worst thing for SN,..
CX-B

[134flyer]

Good post cathay belgium, hitting the nail on the head!

-. If you work in the industry it's not good for your own company to tell smart things to the guys of other companies.In that case you better give or try to give them bad advise!

I was thinking the same, maybe NCB is indeed employed by the competition afterall! Also, he is a 'Fleet Adviser' as well, so perhaps his airline has some A319's left and they want to get rid of them, or they need (apparently hard to find) A330's themselves...

-. Once again, stop degenerating people. 'handling-boy' Some members try to adapt reasons and react on it , you were trying to defend you're plans by jumping from one conclusion to another, ignoring other people reactions ( for ex. tolipanebas)

Indeed! Let's see what people he is degenerating here: he is disrespecting posters, (they're 'just' Tourists, Handling Boys etc :thumbdown: ), he is disrespecting pilots, he is disrespecting managers (both in general and his bosses, but claims to be in management himself), he is disrespecting people who graduated from University or people who teach there etc, but he expect others to respect him... My oh my, he really is living in a very small world...

-. A small AFI carrier little supported by Emirates gonna try to compete SN and if better supported in the future you better can say Emirates Senegal is gonna try to compete LH Belgium on their AFI market! Maybe Senegal is starting up but when they are in full Emirates..speed,SN is in hands of LH and will be have a lot more power to react.

Exactly, small SN has to fear a new start-up (who has some back-up from EK), but hasn't even started flying yet... Like you say, even if EK get's more involved, it will be more like LH-Belgium against EK-Senegal, not small SN against big Emirates...

[Kabila]

All very well but Arik will fly a premium route with a lot business pax (oil industry) that not carry as much lugage.

Ok... and what about this then? From an interview with Arik's CEO:

Over the next three years, Arik plans to add up to another seven regional international routes within Africa. Its business plan also envisions 737-800s operating thin long-haul routes to destinations in continental Europe such as Brussels, Madrid and Milan.