Aviapartner strike @ Brussels Airport (and Flightcare too)

[JoskeDR]

about my post with the 500€ ... don't have it, don't go.
My point was maybe missed by some.
What I wanted to stress, is not that companies like RYR are needing these people.
B.air... we didn't need them for a long time honestly. A lot of our clientel is still business people going to work so why would we care anyway. Too bad for the unlucky few that's how a democracy works.
My point was more related to all those people over in this little country complaining about having too little money, 'koopkrachtdaling meneer'... yes this is maybe true, but instead of whining about it, start doing something about it. Is it really necessary for people have an combined average income of 2000€ a month or less to take a holiday which is gonna cost them more than they can handle?
20 years ago, if you didn't have the money to take the train, you didn't. If you didn't have the money for a car, you didn't... these days that has changed. This has openend up an entire new market segment but it's like a pandora box since it brings along the most stringent demands from those people because they simply cannot afford flying. They make our airlines go bust, and its disgusting people like o leary who seem to exploit this situation the most. Sure they're making a lot of money, but in an honest way? NO! remind you that RYR has a tendency to bully airports around... that's NOT how it's supposed to be, that's nog how most decent airlines do it and that's simply NOT the way to make money in a fair way.
But I guess the word 'fair' has long fled the business scene here.

Flightcare/Aviapartner, concerning me: they know you're on strike now, so just continue till you get what you deserve, and no less!!!
I hate these management type thinkers that think they can do anything with the workforce because they feel better about themselves sitting in a chair drinking coffee and smoking a cigarrette... you people disgust me, honestly!

[Acid-drop]

maybe we should change the name of the topic.
A strike is an planed action taken after failed negociations. Totally not the case today, it was not planned and there were no negociations before the action. Sadly usual in belgium, but should not be called strike.

[sn26567]

Although I accept that a strike is the ultimate way to get satisfaction (and therefore it should be used only when all other methods have failed), I find it unacceptable to go on strike without a warning. I am convinced that the claims of the Aviapartner and FightCare workers have some merit, but a wildcat strike is outside bonds. With a warning passengers and airlines alike could have taken measures to minimise the disagreements. Here they are taken as hostages by a minority of the workers in the air travel business, as in the firemen strike of last year.

What I can even less understand is that the trade unions have endorsed a wildcat strike. Inconvenienced companies and passengers have the right to sue the strikers and obtain compensation, in the same way as some passengers have sued the firemen. Any results of this court case yet?

[euroflyer]

about my post with the 500€ ... don't have it, don't go.
My point was maybe missed by some.
...
20 years ago, if you didn't have the money to take the train, you didn't. If you didn't have the money for a car, you didn't... these days that has changed. This has openend up an entire new market segment but it's like a pandora box since it brings along the most stringent demands from those people because they simply cannot afford flying. They make our airlines go bust, and its disgusting people like o leary who seem to exploit this situation the most. Sure they're making a lot of money, but in an honest way? NO! remind you that RYR has a tendency to bully airports around... that's NOT how it's supposed to be, that's nog how most decent airlines do it and that's simply NOT the way to make money in a fair way.
But I guess the word 'fair' has long fled the business scene here.
...
!

Your point was not missed, I think we got it exactly. YOU are the one to decide who should be allowed to go on holidays by plane, YOU are the one to tell the rest of the people what is fair or not fair and YOU are the one to set the "right" price for a flight.

Excuse me, but for whatever reason I cannot agree because I obviously have a different opinion of what is fair or not fair I simply cannot see why a certain category of employees at one airport should decide who in this country should be able to afford a holiday abroad and who not. You call this a democracy? Hm, interesting.

And I am certainly not thinking it is fair I will probably not be seing my family tonight (at least not before they go to sleep) because my flight leaving from BRU at 18h10 (or should I say scheduled to leave at 18h10 today) will very likely be delayed. And I tell you this is not the first time during the past years it happens for this reason at BRU. You might think all those Business people will fly anyway as you say, but be careful. As soon as there is a really fast railway connection you might not be seing me again at BRU (at least not as long as the train staff is not going on strike )

[Stij]

about my post with the 500€ ... don't have it, don't go.
What I wanted to stress, is not that companies like RYR are needing these people.
B.air... we didn't need them for a long time honestly. A lot of our clientel is still business people going to work so why would we care anyway.

Are you kidding me?

Just look at B. Air, look at how "well" B Flex works. If that's your 500€ clientèle start buying Cessna's. They'll be more then big enough to transport every customer!

Charge 500€ for a flight and make Michael O'Leary's day! He'll base 49 planes in Charleroi overnight: exactly the fleet of B. Air.

Good for you you're not one of the idiots of management!

Cheers,

Stij

[JoskeDR]

Never said it was my choice to set the price!!!!!
Never said i agree with the b.air b.flex-light concept!!!!

You don't get my point, fine, i'll just shut up then...
Have to say though you're point of views are noted, you have some very valid point, but it's not necessarily something I agree with.

[Atlantis]

B.air... we didn't need them for a long time honestly. A lot of our clientel is still business people going to work so why would we care anyway.

I may hope that this is only YOUR point of view and not those of whole Aviapartner and Flightcare!!

Don't forget that those airlines are clients of Aviapartner or Flightcare. It are those clients who are now having meetings with their juridical departments and insurance departments to form an official claim against.....X, because it's not decided yet to whom.

But fact is that ALL those airlines have put people on tarmac to (un)load baggage, claining toilets of aircrafts, hotel nights for all passengers, etc. The total amount: you don't want to know it. But If the clients forced to get their money back, both companies will be bankrupt.

Second: we haven't even spoken yet about the splendid image about Belgium is working. I will hope not that carriers will leave Belgium to put their hub on an other airport. Possible new carriers know's about this 2nd day of striking. All what we have build up the last couple of years can be gone in a second.

Even LGG can't handle this situation. They have not the accomodation to handle a lot of flights. The latest I could read was about 4 hours delay at LGG airport.

[Airbus330lover]

To Joske:

Are you joking ?
I'm afraid .... not.
If the strike continues, don't be surprised by an decrease in jobs for Aviapartner and Flightcare....
Decrease due to losing some airlines....
Bye bye 9W, and many others....
You and the nimbys wil be happy

[L-1011]

Today, in our wellness coutries, people simply want to earn very much money and work as less as possible.

I must remind you that the (un)loaders are NOT asking for a raise,
but simply for a more humane way of working. That's it.

Unfortunately they'll never be able to solve that problem... Because that means hiring more people. And there may be enough people without a job but almost none of them want this type of job. So the only way to solve the problem is to reduce the number of flights in BRU. This would reduce workload and pressure.
So maybe the strike could have a benefic effect after all. If new operators are scared away and a few actual ones flee permanently to CRL or LGG or even out of Belgium due to the ongoing strike ....But this will result in job losses at BRU in general, and is not a realistic scenario. (FYI this paragraph was )

The real questions thus is: How do we get people interested in this job This is now even more difficult than before because through the strike they told everyone that they are exhausted and that they work like crazy ... Not many people will feel interested I think...

TriStar

[krist0f]

Here's my opinion on this strike: If you're not happy with your job, then be it, but don't let your discomfort with your situation affect other people who are mere victims of these actions, because this is just doing upon others what is being done upon you, thus transferring and expanding the problems rather than resolving them. These types of strikes increase the problems (by creating new problems) and diminish the understanding of the passengers as well as the other airport staff for the situation you are in. If you are not happy with your job and with the work load, then please go and find another job which provide you better job satisfaction and working conditions and leave the work up to the people who accept these working conditions. I'm sure there's always other people who would be glad to take a job in the striking person's place.

[flightlover]

=" If you are not happy with your job and with the work load, then please go and find another job which provide you better job satisfaction and working conditions and leave the work up to the people who accept these working conditions. I'm sure there's always other people who would be glad to take a job in the striking person's place.

And you are perfectly happy with you're work load and environement??? Are you a manager by any chance???

and if it was that easy to find enough employees to fil all possitions in these working conditions then hell the management would sack us all and replace us. But hey, WAKE UP!! you're dreaming. There are just not enough people who want to do this job. And in stead of respecting the people willing to work here they try to scare them away by making them work impossible shifts. (e.g. up to 3 different shifts in 4 days)

Still think there are much people willing to work here???? Dream on...

[Acid-drop]

Even LGG can't handle this situation. They have not the accomodation to handle a lot of flights. The latest I could read was about 4 hours delay at LGG airport.

From what I know, they managed very well to handdle more than 50 flights in one day.
The terminal and the infrastructure should not be able to handdle so many flights, but they did anyway, with great success, and with only 1h delay on regular LGG charters. Good job ! Very good publicity for LGG, showing that they are capable of doing what seems to be impossible to many eyes, including yours atlantis

Lucky pax, they didnt have to go to Amdam or some other distant airport.

[Air Key West]

IMHO, the way to get people interested in a physically hard job with often unsocial working hours and bad working conditions is not to pay them 1,200 euros a month, but to offer them an attractive pay. And if this means more expensive air tickets, so be it. It's not that the air fares will suddenly be twice as expensive.
And from what a read in some posts by forum guests who seem to know what is happening "inside", even if there was no official notice of a strike, workers seem to have warned management of the problems. And if management don't listen, then you get a situation like this. In addition, both ground handling companies are competing for clients (airlines) and airlines want the cheapest price. So, where do ground handling companies try to make savings : on workers (= less workers, less pay).
I think there has to come an end to poor pay and poor working conditions so that people can travel on 49 euros air tickets (as another member on this forum said : it's not normal that flying to your destination is less expensive then driving there or taking the train).
Flying on cheap tickets is ok as long as it does not mean exploiting workers. But it seems that flying on cheap tickets does mean exploiting those workers making it possible for you to fly for practically nothing. Not a normal situation in my opinion. Every worker should be entitled to normal working conditions and a pay which is a fair compensation for the work done.

[Acid-drop]

IMHO, the way to get people interested in a physically hard job with often unsocial working hours and bad working conditions is not to pay them 1,200 euros a month, but to offer them an attractive pay. And if this means more expensive air tickets, so be it. It's not that the air fares will suddenly be twice as expensive.

Why do you talk about the ticket price
you get your luggage in charleroi or any other low cost airport too, dont you ? All that with landing fees half the price of BRU ...

[Air Key West]

Yes, but isn't that because the Walloon tax payers are paying for it (through regional subsidies) instead of you ?

[zteven]

Today, in our wellness coutries, people simply want to earn very much money and work as less as possible.

I must remind you that the (un)loaders are NOT asking for a raise,
but simply for a more humane way of working. That's it.

Unfortunately they'll never be able to solve that problem... Because that means hiring more people. And there may be enough people without a job but almost none of them want this type of job. So the only way to solve the problem is to reduce the number of flights in BRU. This would reduce workload and pressure.

I must agree with you there.

Maybe some airline companies will see that CRL or LGG are not so bad
and start flying there on a regular base.

But let us not make any illusions, at LGG passengers had to wait in line
for several hours to take their FQ flights. (so I heard from staff)

Greetz



Steven

[krist0f]

=" If you are not happy with your job and with the work load, then please go and find another job which provide you better job satisfaction and working conditions and leave the work up to the people who accept these working conditions. I'm sure there's always other people who would be glad to take a job in the striking person's place.

And you are perfectly happy with you're work load and environement??? Are you a manager by any chance???

and if it was that easy to find enough employees to fil all possitions in these working conditions then hell the management would sack us all and replace us. But hey, WAKE UP!! you're dreaming. There are just not enough people who want to do this job. And in stead of respecting the people willing to work here they try to scare them away by making them work impossible shifts. (e.g. up to 3 different shifts in 4 days)

Still think there are much people willing to work here???? Dream on...

To answer your questions in order of appearance:

1) I am quite satisfied with my work environment and have no particular complaints. If I would have any complaints, I would discuss these in a professional manner and if me and my employer can't see eye to eye, I will move to another company. It's the employee who needs to adapt to the company, not the other way around, because then you will not stop dealing with exceptions and eventually not have a good common base and corporate culture for working on. And to answer your secondary question, yes I am in a management position, however there are always bigger fish so at each position within an organization you give and you take. When employees are not happy at an organization, this is often based on a very biased view, both relative (where you go and see where you are compared to your co-workers) as well as personal (where you think you should be in life). Generally this unhappiness is deep rooted in the worker and does not go away (for a very long time) by motivation, participation or incentives as this is merely seen as a temporary solution and then maybe a year or two years later the problem with reappear. When a constant behavior pattern of unhappiness can be found, it is in most cases best for the employee as well as for the organization to separate ways.

2) First of all, I'm not saying that the management should would fire you all, because that would be counterproductive to their business objectives. However, it is a common misperception for people to think that they are irreplacable. It is a truth that everyone in an organizational entity should me aware of. Same goes for me, same goes for my co-workers as well as for most other persons within an organization. Certain economic systems allow for easier job turnover than others. However, in Belgium, like many European countries, the economic system is based on mutual value sharing between the employer and the employee, with a slight balance in favor of the employee (i.e. provisions allow for striking with little or no sanction for the employee, allow for employee benefits when the person is unemployed). In the current climate of social and legislative policy in Belgium, I am sure that your jobs are secure at 100% and I am of the opinion that corporate management will not proceed to reductions in workforce. However, with stiff competition from foreign and emerging markets, the current economic and social climate in Europe has to change if it wants to continue to act as a competitive player on the global marketplace, and thus however may bring about drastic changes in the subtle balancing act between employee and employer. I understand that you may not be happy with your current position and I also believe that this needs to be addressed, but performing nearly unannounced strikes does not favor you, but will rather accelerate the effect of the changing balance between employee and employers right in Europe.

3) To answer you on the people of whether I still believe many people want to work there, yes I do. Perhaps this is presently impossible under the current political climate due to restrictions on working regulations, however I believe in the genuine basic need of people to sustain themselves by working. That said, I do understand your concerns of shift rotations, we also have this in our company and I have had similar exchanges of view points on this subject. This is quite a touchy subject because oftentimes, overtime gets counted into this for working odd hours as well as liability coverage for out of hours or over maximum number of hours work. At this point, the limit does no longer lay with the company but with the government. In the end, it really depends on what you want for yourself. If you value personal time very much and want to minimize the shifts, then you need to be in a position where the shifts are rare or non-existent. Many companies offer employees internal opportunities for moving on in their careers, and many times this also helps the employee's satisfaction as there will be more time for the employee to perform their "challenges" outside of their working environment. There is also the opposite situation where the person wants to be challenged within their working environment and puts more of a focus on the working time rather than personal time, in which case I believe that it is the employee's responsibility to clearly state this to management as it is management's responsibility in turn to provide the incentives for the employee wanted to perform those extra tasks. However, unfortunately, Belgium is Belgium and there is a very limited amount of flexibility with what an employer or manager can do with this since controls in Europe are generally "hour" based and not "task" based and I believe it is equally challenging for management to keep the employees happy as it is for the employee's to challenge management on providing incentives and working around the web of laws and regulations which exist in Europe.

[Atlantis]

But let us not make any illusions, at LGG passengers had to wait in line
for several hours to take their FQ flights. (so I heard from staff)

Greetz



Steven

Indeed, pax were not satified at LGG. But it has to do with organisation. LGG can't handle 50 flights at the same time. They don't have the accomodation and not enough taxiways and runways. The hall is way to small for all those thousands of pax: confirmed today by the CEO of LGG. He was also saying: one or two days ok, but we can't handle it for days.

But that's not LGG problem: it was unexpected and they did what they could.

CRL was (minimal) not involved. Only a few flights were diverted to CRL. All the other flights were cancelled or diverted to AMS or LGG.

[Comet]

I am following the strike news with an increasing sense of dread. The information available here in the UK is almost non existent, even from airlines. The only travel news BMI have on their website relates to Georgia, no mention of the fact that 98% of their flights between the UK and Brussels are cancelled due to strike action. We are due to fly with BMI in 20 days and hope to god that the flight will be OK and not affected by strikes.

At Christmas we were hit by the rail strike and now we don't know whether we will get our holiday because of a bloody handlers strike.

[Acid-drop]

No other airport in Belgium is capable of beeing a full backup of BRU, that's no secret.
But there are still good alternative, not perfect, but far better than cancelation for pax. Even with some waiting time, they should realise that others are working hard so they can leave anyway.
50 flights in LGG is a huge lot, more than it ever happened in the past, as far as I remember.
They were not trained, nothing was planed. Was not perfect. Fair enough. but seems good enough when I went there yersteday evening. Crowded but calm, eveybody had chance to take its flight if the combination of company effort and airport effort was present. I understand the pax, sometime angry, imagine you in their case, you loose some days of expensive hollyday, eveybody would freak.
Anyway, aviation related, we are a lucky country to have so many capable airports.