Ryanair at Brussels Airport

[fcw]

Quote of Descheermaecker:
"If Brussels Airlines is squeezed out by Ryanair and Ryanair does not offer flights to Africa, is that a reduction of traveloffers. Travelers then go to Paris or Frankfurt, which will eventually lead to a reduction of the economy in Belgium. You must carefully deal with this strategic. " (bing translate)

He has a point here... I don't like them coming either. In the long term this has a negative impact on the Airport!
But he diden't mentioned that Brussels Airlines has to work at there longhaul expansion. If you wan't to stay the big boy at your homebase. You have to grow... And this can not with 1 longhaul aircraft and destination a year!
Fingers crossed for LH....

He has a point BUT BruAir has been given a monopoly for flights to Africa, so maybe he should direct his anger towards those who are protecting BruAir. As Flanker said JAF is ready to start flights to Africa, but they are denied the necessary traffice rights. If I were Mr Descheermaecker I would start lobbying for JAF flights to Africa.
With FR, VY and U2 expanding at BRU there is, at least, already a backup for European flights for the day BruAIr goes tits up.

[OO-ITR]

If someone were to offer me to take-over SN's African network with a new operation, I wouldn't think about it for a second although I would do it a bit differently than the current SN... well we all know my position.
So I'm sure that there would be other investors out there willing to do that as well.

JAF is interesed in FIH, so who knows, maybe they could be interested in the other destinations as well?

FIH isnt going to make a complete African network isnt it... I dont think JAF will be able to fly 20 African and 2 American with two long haul aircraft. And I hope that you are not that naive to believe they will receive 8 long haul aircraft in a few months from their parent company TUI.

I can follow the reasoning of Mr Descheemacker. If SN will go belly up, then we can all forget about the Star hub in Brussels. It is not Ryanair nor JAF nor Thomas Cook who will build up an intercontinental network with other (Star) partners like the ones there are in BRU right now.
If no SN in BRU, then no Star Alliance and more feeder flights/trains from AF, LH, BA and KLM to bring the intercontinental pax to their respective hubs...Just like what happened after Sabena's bankrupcy.
I'm Belgian so I support BRU and the Belgian economy,,but that is just me!

If your wish is a bankruptcy of any company and all their employees, then that says a lot about you...

[sean1982]

SN and their future operation has nothing to do with ryanair at BRU. 4 B738 are not going to make SN go bankrupt.

[Flanker2]

If your wish is a bankruptcy of any company and all their employees, then that says a lot about you...

There is a context to it too. It depends: it would be a shame to lose a company that provides good jobs.
When 90% of employees top to bottom come home from work pissed off and work their ass off only to hear that things are going from bad to worse for no fault of their own, one has to wonder if that's what you want.

If SN goes down, what happens to those employees? Well, the RVA/ONEM will be waiting at the doors with a monthly paycheck of more than 1100 euro's and SN's employees can take a well-earned holiday while looking for a new job with Ryanair or any other company that will come to replace SN. Would that be the worse of things?

Star Alliance is an illusion that LH has brought to BRU. BRU hasn't seen any traffic growth yet that can be owed to the new Star Alliance hub. SN has also kicked AA out, and is now in the process of kicking 9W out. You win some, you lose some.

Whether you like it or not, it's coming, so you might as well prepare yourself for it.

As for Jetair and Africa? There are plenty of B767's becoming available on the market, so I don't doubt for a second that Jetair would be interested in several of SN's African routes. The transfer wouldn't happen overnight, but what's a few months?

[OO-ITR]

If your wish is a bankruptcy of any company and all their employees, then that says a lot about you...

As for Jetair and Africa? There are plenty of B767's becoming available on the market, so I don't doubt for a second that Jetair would be interested in several of SN's African routes. The transfer wouldn't happen overnight, but what's a few months?

I know there is a lot of daydreaming and fantasizing in aviation forums but this beats everything....

[OO-ITR]

If your wish is a bankruptcy of any company and all their employees, then that says a lot about you...

If SN goes down, what happens to those employees? Well, the RVA/ONEM will be waiting at the doors with a monthly paycheck of more than 1100 euro's and SN's employees can take a well-earned holiday while looking for a new job with Ryanair or any other company that will come to replace SN. Would that be the worse of things?

and why would people choose to work for Ryanir after all the bad publicity they had concering labour conditions with this company?

[cnc]

flanker you don't know a thing about JAF, so stop dreaming about JAF taking over SN's africa network.
even if they had the chance they wouldn't.
JAF did slot bidding for an african destination and you think they want to set up a whole network...
do you also believe every mercedes benz buyer go's for an 250 000 euro S65 AMG or SLS AMG?

[fcw]

flanker you don't know a thing about JAF, so stop dreaming about JAF taking over SN's africa network.
even if they had the chance they wouldn't.
JAF did slot bidding for an african destination and you think they want to set up a whole network...

A genuine question: Do you know enough about JAF to be so sure they are not interested?
Don't forget Arke is flying to some African destinations.
I can tell you that FR and probably U2 are very interested to start up routes to DKR, BJL,... if they would be granted the traffic rights.

[airazurxtror]

If your wish is a bankruptcy of any company and all their employees, then that says a lot about you...

Wishing ?
If SN offers the right schedules to the right places at the right prices, they will survive and prosper. If not, sooner or later they will disappear.
It's not sentimentality, it's business.
As for De Meesmaeker, he was until recently one of the bosses of SNCB/NMBS. Seeing how are the Belgian railways, one can fear for Brussels Airport.

[cnc]

flanker you don't know a thing about JAF, so stop dreaming about JAF taking over SN's africa network.
even if they had the chance they wouldn't.
JAF did slot bidding for an african destination and you think they want to set up a whole network...

A genuine question: Do you know enough about JAF to be so sure they are not interested?
Don't forget Arke is flying to some African destinations.
I can tell you that FR and probably U2 are very interested to start up routes to DKR, BJL,... if they would be granted the traffic rights.

lets say JAF, U2 and FR take over all SN's africa routes at BRU, then what? they'll serve the O&D market but what about all the transfer pax SN carried via BRU?

[Flanker2]

I can respond to that.

For my part CNC, I believe that SN's Africa transfer market is centered on 3 pillars
-O&D
-in Europe feeding mainly from France and CDG, the rest is sporadic and not really significant
-U.S.

If JAF uses the smaller B763/B788, they can afford to loose some of the lower yield feed traffic, but I'm sure that they won't mind feeding out of the U.S., CDG and other main feeding ports if they think they need it.

So you look at today's JAF and say that it's impossible, but who's to say that JAF won't adapt its business model a little bit, if they can absorb a lucrative market? It won't be the first time that an airline does that.

So even if JAF don't do it, who's to say indeed that another investor group won't take over? Let's remember that in the wake of the demise of Sabena, Mr. Delsey did attempt to start VG Airlines/Delsey, just as Thomas Cook and Jetair came to fill Sabena's void together with DAT.
Who's to say that MOL/Ryanair won't start-up his own longhaul LCC out of BRU, using this gap in Africa?

Interesting that FCW mentions U2... The U2 founder is already working in Africa with his new baby, Fastjet.

In Flemish, they say: "De eene zijn dood, is de ander zijn brood."

For me every airline that becomes a ghost is sad... even more sad is when you can't do anything about it.
It's time to stop being in denial and turn the page, to look to the future. SN had too many problems to turn around by itself, the sudden rise of competition will just be the final coup de grace by airlines who have recognized the opportunity that will present itself in the near-future in BRU.
I won't be surprised at all if we see U2 make a move in the coming months.

[OO-ITR]

If your wish is a bankruptcy of any company and all their employees, then that says a lot about you...

Wishing ?
If SN offers the right schedules to the right places at the right prices, they will survive and prosper. If not, sooner or later they will disappear.
It's not sentimentality, it's business.
As for De Meesmaeker, he was until recently one of the bosses of SNCB/NMBS. Seeing how are the Belgian railways, one can fear for Brussels Airport.

why don't you apply for the job of ceo of BRU then, you seem to know it all

[Flanker2]

I think that Airazurxtor has a point OO-ITR. Political appointments have screwed so many companies in the past that for me it's already a negative when someone comes from a national company.

We're all human beings, so who's to say that anybody is better than anybody else?

Granted, it's easier to criticize what someone is doing without seeing all the work that said person is performing.
However, it's also easy to recognize talent and charisma in a person. I don't see any of that in this statement by said newly appointed BRU director, who's trying to justify his request for a bail-out to his largest customer... A kid in primary school could come up with such a statement.

[OO-ITR]

I think that Airazurxtor has a point OO-ITR. Political appointments have screwed so many companies in the past that for me it's already a negative when someone comes from a national company.

We're all human beings, so who's to say that anybody is better than anybody else?

Granted, it's easier to criticize what someone is doing without seeing all the work that said person is performing.
However, it's also easy to recognize talent and charisma in a person. I don't see any of that in this statement by said newly appointed BRU director, who's trying to justify his request for a bail-out to his largest customer... A kid in primary school could come up with such a statement.

I totally agree. I never said that political appointments were a good thing for 'private' businesses.
I don't really see what not the right schedules, routes and prices (whatever that means) for SN has to do with the CEO of BRU. SN and BRU are not one company...

OK there was already a long discussion about price settinig of Ryanair and SN. But saying that SN doesn't have the right routes and schedules, then I'm afraid you have no knowledge at all about SN and/or BRU.
What should the 'right' schedules and routes be for you? Flying at night like RYR wants to do? People of Brussels and the Northern part of Brussels will LOVE hearing that...

[sean1982]

The declined slots are the return flights from Barcelone, Malaga and Valencia as they severely encroach the night curfew at BRU. The late return flight from Lisbon was initially affected to, but by moving its operating times slightly forward, that problem could be solved, but for the other 3 flights the slot coordinator in BRU could not find an alternative so those flights can not be accomodated.

The link is again in the subscribers part of the website, the free interpretation of its content is as above.

Seems like they DID get slots for Malaga and BCN in the end. Valencia has been changed to an early flight.
The late landing wave is now as follows:
Mallorca at 22.10
Lisbon, Barcelona and Málaga between 23.10 and 23.40

[Airbus330lover]

Better so. Good arrangement and the late arrival from Malaga is a very good solution.

[sean1982]

Swissport is now confirmed as handler for Ryanair at BRU

[cnc]

thx for the update

[DannyVDB]

Hi all,

Maybe a silly question, but will they start all the 10 destinations at once, end of February, or rather start operations in several steps throughout the summer season?

Personally I think it is good Ryanair will come to Brussels, every new livery is welcome
(Even if I never will use them)

Regards,
Danny

[sdbelgium]

All 10 of them should be launched within days of each other.