Brussels Airlines in 2025

[lumumba]

I assume to make Luanda profitable you preferably have feeder connections with Brazil which Lufthansa does have in Frankfurt.

I don't think so that's a long road you have a daily flight to São Paolo from Luanda with TAAG after that it's better to fly via Johannesburg...but anyway there are much more possibilities true Frankfurt.

[crew1990]

If Brussels Airlines can fill a daily Kinshasa flight, why bother to make a stop somewhere else increasing the fuel cost and station/country manager, marketing cost etc etc.

I guess the best option to go back to Luanda would be to link it with another destination in the region like Malabo, Libreville, Pointe Noire or Brazzaville. We will see what the next A330’s will bring in the coming years. But dropping Luanda (temporarily) to increase Kinshasa is to me a logical step.

[crew1990]

- Shift of all FRA, MUC, ZRH, GVA flights to SN, wow . Why would that be? Because of plane shortages at LH, LX? Is it temporary or 'permanent? Is it not making LH/LX vulnerable (e.g. in case of strikes at SN, these cities would not be connected anymore to BRU?

This decision has been taken for several reasons, SN need to grow quickly to save the slot at BRU for the new permit. In the meantime there is a shortage of A320’s at Swiss and Lufthansa. This is then a win-win solution for SN to take over most of the flight to MUC, FRA and GVA. MUC and FRA will still be flown on some flight by Lufthansa to avoid costly crew layover outstation. For GVA, SN will take TEMPORARILY all the flight but when Swiss will be able to do it. They will fly some flight to avoid the crew layover.

Taking over those flight which by the way are very wealthy thanks to the very high number of business class passengers (sometimes 30) alow SN to grow without having all the cost and risk of opening new dots.

If everything goes right, 2025 will be a very good year for SN.

[lumumba]

If Brussels Airlines can fill a daily Kinshasa flight, why bother to make a stop somewhere else increasing the fuel cost and station/country manager, marketing cost etc etc.

I guess the best option to go back to Luanda would be to link it with another destination in the region like Malabo, Libreville, Pointe Noire or Brazzaville. We will see what the next A330’s will bring in the coming years. But dropping Luanda (temporarily) to increase Kinshasa is to me a logical step.

Doesn’t look temporarily from what we are hearing here.

[crew1990]

If Brussels Airlines can fill a daily Kinshasa flight, why bother to make a stop somewhere else increasing the fuel cost and station/country manager, marketing cost etc etc.

I guess the best option to go back to Luanda would be to link it with another destination in the region like Malabo, Libreville, Pointe Noire or Brazzaville. We will see what the next A330’s will bring in the coming years. But dropping Luanda (temporarily) to increase Kinshasa is to me a logical step.

Doesn’t look temporarily from what we are hearing here.

As long as more money can be made somewhere else then LAD will not be flown, but if SN open new routes in the region than Luanda could come back, this indeed not the plan now, but if an opportunity arise then SN could come back but not with Kinshasa anymore.

[TimTam]

For LAD to be again a reasonable option for SN, UA would need to offer direct flights from/to IAH with "decent" connection times at BRU.
In addition or alternatively, the flight could continue, for instance, to CPT, or perhaps even better to WDH, which I am being told suffers from a lack of airline services.

[lumumba]

For LAD to be again a reasonable option for SN, UA would need to offer direct flights from/to IAH with "decent" connection times at BRU.
In addition or alternatively, the flight could continue, for instance, to CPT, or perhaps even better to WDH, which I am being told suffers from a lack of airline services.

Windhoek not anymore it's a small market(low yield)and you have a lot of flights to Germany and a daily flight via Addis.
Also a 2 hours flight half empty it's too much,Brazzaville would be better KLM tried this version already it didn't work.

[oldblueeyes]

Windhoek is more a German holiday destination, both Discover and Condor are flying it.

Cape Town is very mainstream and all big brands are flying there - thus also strong competition. The only option i see would be the Scandinavian market of Golfers, if not cached already by others. There may be other niches such as Durban, but one has to play against Turkish, Emirates, Ethiopian.

[nordikcam]

And why not BRU Libreville ( Sabena destination) Luanda. Or BRU Niamey ( Sabena destination) N'djamena or Bamako ? For the second option, I guess it will not ne possible for security reasons.

[oldblueeyes]

Decisions are taken business driven, not by nostalgia, grandmothers realities or name dropping.

Market size, yield and cost of acquisition are hard facts, because at the end of the year, it's all about profit.

[lumumba]

And why not BRU Libreville ( Sabena destination) Luanda. Or BRU Niamey ( Sabena destination) N'djamena or Bamako ? For the second option, I guess it will not ne possible for security reasons.

Also the second leg needs to be short if you fly 2h half empty (you don't have a 5th freedom)it's expensive so Brazzaville is 50 minutes from Luanda that's the best option if there is a market.

[TimTam]

In short, the stupid question of the week-end : is it worth for SN to fly to LAD ? Leave it to Mutti.

[fcw]

In short, the stupid question of the week-end : is it worth for SN to fly to LAD ? Leave it to Mutti.

OBE gave the answer before you even asked your question!

Decisions are taken business driven, not by nostalgia, grandmothers realities or name dropping.

Market size, yield and cost of acquisition are hard facts, because at the end of the year, it's all about profit.

[oldblueeyes]

We could also look towards Luanda from straight forward prospective on a possible transfer question.

LH is flying this destination 3 times a week with an A330. With all restructuring in the group going on, would it make sense to move it to SN? From a group prospective, likely lower operating cost. For SN if linked to an additional aircraft allocated,still some spare days to generate additional revenue.

The alternative may be that Discover would do that, as by reduced size of the business class, fleet commonality etc. it may become part of the more "leisure" franchise.

Also worth to notice that ITA was launching this year several routes towards Africa - Accra, Dakkar etc - and LH would see them as a natural Southern hub.

Sometimes you may need to take decisions as a company to consolidate your position within a group.

[lumumba]

We could also look towards Luanda from straight forward prospective on a possible transfer question.

LH is flying this destination 3 times a week with an A330. With all restructuring in the group going on, would it make sense to move it to SN? From a group prospective, likely lower operating cost. For SN if linked to an additional aircraft allocated,still some spare days to generate additional revenue.

The alternative may be that Discover would do that, as by reduced size of the business class, fleet commonality etc. it may become part of the more "leisure" franchise.

Also worth to notice that ITA was launching this year several routes towards Africa - Accra, Dakkar etc - and LH would see them as a natural Southern hub.

Sometimes you may need to take decisions as a company to consolidate your position within a group.

There are two problems first there is a need for business class because it is high yield destination and the advantage of Frankfurt is that it offers many more destinations than Brussels and you don't have a local market like FIH.

ITA could also start the destination because Italians have a very big investment there via ENI and the Rome HUB offers quite a few connections too.

[rwandan-flyer]

I don't think that ITA will add dozens routes into Africa. I think if they want add more flights into, it will be probably first of all premium leisures destinations in East Africa. They don't need A321LR, the A321Neo can fly non stop to East Africa.

Mombasa and Zanzibar have huge point to point demand

Nov 23 - Oct 24

Mombasa Milan MXP : 60 732 pax that could feed the long haul route service Rome Mombasa
Mombasa Rome : 47 919 pax

Average : 297 pax per day

Zanzibar Milan MXP : 57 559 pax that could feed the long haul route service Rome Zanzibar
Zanzibar Rome : 44 845 pax

Average : 280 pax per day

Zanzibar and Mombasa have a good demand from secondaries cities in Europe.

About Luanda, here is the top 10 market (without Asia & Moscow).

Emirates, Qatar and Turkish have an advantage, they can rely on connecting with Asia. Dubai + Beirut + Manilla + Shanghai + Mumbai = between 80 000 and 85 000 pax between Nov 23 - Oct24 with probably a good yield and huge cargo demand. Then you add connecting with Europe and USA

Nov 23 - Oct 24

Lisbonne : 302 921 pax
Paris Roissy : 17 490 pax
London Heathrow : 15 023 pax
Madrid : 9 464 pax
Brussels : 9 161 pax
Houston : 8 510 pax
Amsterdam : 4 493 pax
Manchester : 4 330 pax
Paris Orly (thanks to TAP Air Portugal and Royal Air Maroc) : 4 259 pax
Geneva : 4 083 pax

[Deejay]

what about south east Asian routes ?
SQ and TG have started the SIN and BKK routes, why couldn't that be profitable for SN ?
Does somebody has an idea about the respective loadfactors ?

[Delta Sierra]

what about south east Asian routes ?
SQ and TG have started the SIN and BKK routes, why couldn't that be profitable for SN ?
Does somebody has an idea about the respective loadfactors ?

TG is almost full every day since the launch.

[rwandan-flyer]

what about south east Asian routes ?
SQ and TG have started the SIN and BKK routes, why couldn't that be profitable for SN ?
Does somebody has an idea about the respective loadfactors ?

Point to point demand (passengers flying between 2 points either non stop or with stops). All data are btw Nov 23 and Oct 24

Paris Cdg vs Brussels

Paris Cdg Bangkok : 455 592 pax.

Thai Airways but many connecting to Cambodia (ex Phnom Penh : 81 218 pax), Vietnam (ex Hanoï : 126 234 pax) and Australia (ex Sydney : 105 031 pax)
Air Calin (New Caledonia) with terminator service to Noumea.
Air France can rely on huge demand from French Provinces despite a stong competition from Emirates, Qatar and Turkish. BKK with Dubaï is often the largest market to Asia for French big cities with Nice (38 458 pax), Marseille (25 992 pax) and Lyon (25 887 pax)

Thai : 1 flight a day
Air France : up to 2 flights a day in winter, but 3 weekly flights in summer.
Air Calin : 2 flights a week


Brussels Bangkok : 111 668 pax

Thai Airways with a daily flight. Top 5 of largest market for Brussels in Asia : Tokyo Narita (53 064 pax), Shanghai (49 297 pax), Manilla (44 373 pax) and Singapore (39 976 pax)

Paris Cdg Singapour : 222 495 pax.

Singapore Airlines : 2 flights a day
Air France : up to 2 flights a day. AF has partnership with Singapore Airlines, Air Calin and Qantas for connecting flights at SIN.

Brussels Singapore : 39 976 pax

Singapore Airlines : 4 flights a week

You can see that you need a big point to point demand but also a huge demand for the connecting because you have strong competitors from BRU : Emirates , Etihad, Turkish, Qatar, Hainan Airlines, Finnair, British Airways. Of course i don't include Lufthansa All Nippon and Swiss.

[JOVAN2]

I don't think that ITA will add dozens routes into Africa. I think if they want add more flights into, it will be probably first of all premium leisures destinations in East Africa. They don't
About Luanda, here is the top 10 market (without Asia & Moscow).

Emirates, Qatar and Turkish have an advantage, they can rely on connecting with Asia. Dubai + Beirut + Manilla + Shanghai + Mumbai = between 80 000 and 85 000 pax between Nov 23 - Oct24 with probably a good yield and huge cargo demand. Then you add connecting with Europe and USA

Nov 23 - Oct 24

Lisbonne : 302 921 pax
Paris Roissy : 17 490 pax
London Heathrow : 15 023 pax
Madrid : 9 464 pax
Brussels : 9 161 pax
Houston : 8 510 pax
Amsterdam : 4 493 pax
Manchester : 4 330 pax
Paris Orly (thanks to TAP Air Portugal and Royal Air Maroc) : 4 259 pax
Geneva : 4 083 pax

Are this point to point figures, over 12 months?
Are this PAX on leg Luanda - Brussels (the two or three flight with stop in FIH ?
Then figures for BRU are not that bad.

No German destination; what is the main transfer point for PAX to Germany; Lisbon ??

Tx for clarifying.