Brussels Airlines in 2024

[Lux_avi]

Wizzair 5 flights a week from BRU in summer season.
700 to 800 PAX a week, each direction offered.

Or will they fly via Hellhole FRA ?

So what do you suggest then?
What's your super bright idea to compete against those (ultra) low cost carriers operating from much cheaper countries than Belgium?

[Matt]

Wizzair 5 flights a week from BRU in summer season.
700 to 800 PAX a week, each direction offered.

Or will they fly via Hellhole FRA ?

So what do you suggest then?
What's your super bright idea to compete against those (ultra) low cost carriers operating from much cheaper countries than Belgium?

His solution is expanding the network to the West Coast of the US and expanding in Asia. *sarcasm*

[oldblueeyes]

Guys,

The first attempt to take things seriously starts by reading the whole PR News.
In a second phase one should have a meaningfull judgement.

Hungary is taking over in Summer the EU presidency.
The consequence would be temporarly additional travel demand of public servants.
In a rather authocratic nationalistic state, all these people would have to /need to fly a Hungarian carrier.

Thus, for Wizz this is a no brainer, for any other airline a market one could not access.

[sn26567]

The main reason of the CityJet wetleases going feom SN to LH is the grounding of many A320 neo with PW engines.
Originally it was indeed the plan to also have cityet wetleases for SN in S24 (they make profits), but it was reshuffled to LH because they will have over 20 a320 grounded due to the engine issues this summer.

They make profits? I heard that Bordeaux was financially catastrophic in 2023.

[nordikcam]

The main reason of the CityJet wetleases going feom SN to LH is the grounding of many A320 neo with PW engines.
Originally it was indeed the plan to also have cityet wetleases for SN in S24 (they make profits), but it was reshuffled to LH because they will have over 20 a320 grounded due to the engine issues this summer.

They make profits? I heard that Bordeaux was financially catastrophic in 2023.

At the same time Ryanair is doubling its offer this summer with two daily flights on BOD from CRL...if there is supply there is demand...

[oldblueeyes]

The main reason of the CityJet wetleases going feom SN to LH is the grounding of many A320 neo with PW engines.
Originally it was indeed the plan to also have cityet wetleases for SN in S24 (they make profits), but it was reshuffled to LH because they will have over 20 a320 grounded due to the engine issues this summer.

They make profits? I heard that Bordeaux was financially catastrophic in 2023.

At the same time Ryanair is doubling its offer this summer with two daily flights on BOD from CRL...if there is supply there is demand...

If there is demand for Dacia it does not mean that there is a market for Audi as well.

Would SN make profits at the lowest end of Ryanair prices?

Or are there maybe other market spots where more money can be made?

Like Ryanair is not competing with SN on BRU-FRA for example as it does not fit for their nowhere-to-nowhere approach and subventioned aiports targets, is SN acting as well, looking to sell seats where the yields are better - regardless of the reason.

And let's speak frankly, SN is financially not in the position to defend aggressively it's market place - let it learn first to earn money on a consistent basis. Than everything - from new aircraft, routes etc is easier.

[lumumba]

They make profits? I heard that Bordeaux was financially catastrophic in 2023.

At the same time Ryanair is doubling its offer this summer with two daily flights on BOD from CRL...if there is supply there is demand...

If there is demand for Dacia it does not mean that there is a market for Audi as well.

Would SN make profits at the lowest end of Ryanair prices?

Or are there maybe other market spots where more money can be made?

Like Ryanair is not competing with SN on BRU-FRA for example as it does not fit for their nowhere-to-nowhere approach and subventioned aiports targets, is SN acting as well, looking to sell seats where the yields are better - regardless of the reason.

And let's speak frankly, SN is financially not in the position to defend aggressively it's market place - let it learn first to earn money on a consistent basis. Than everything - from new aircraft, routes etc is easier.

I don't believe what you are saying sure Ryanair can't compete on Frankfurt because it's only transit pax!

On Bordeaux it's another story Charleroi is not so cheap in fact if you calculate the cost to go there (no public transportation etc...) it's not confortable neader for a big part they will never use Charleroi.

I can't believe there is no market between Brussels Airport and Bordeaux!!!!

And if SN is financially not in the position to defend aggressively it's market place as you seem to suggest than you have to stop your business.

[nordikcam]

At the same time Ryanair is doubling its offer this summer with two daily flights on BOD from CRL...if there is supply there is demand...

If there is demand for Dacia it does not mean that there is a market for Audi as well.

Would SN make profits at the lowest end of Ryanair prices?

Or are there maybe other market spots where more money can be made?

Like Ryanair is not competing with SN on BRU-FRA for example as it does not fit for their nowhere-to-nowhere approach and subventioned aiports targets, is SN acting as well, looking to sell seats where the yields are better - regardless of the reason.

And let's speak frankly, SN is financially not in the position to defend aggressively it's market place - let it learn first to earn money on a consistent basis. Than everything - from new aircraft, routes etc is easier.

I don't believe what you are saying sure Ryanair can't compete on Frankfurt because it's only transit pax!

On Bordeaux it's another story Charleroi is not so cheap in fact if you calculate the cost to go there (no public transportation etc...) it's not confortable neader for a big part they will never use Charleroi.

I can't believe there is no market between Brussels Airport and Bordeaux!!!!

And if SN is financially not in the position to defend aggressively it's market place as you seem to suggest than you have to stop your business.

SN is flying Marseille, Lyon, Nice, Toulouse...Paris of course and not BOD one of the richest cities in France. I dont want to go to CRL ( cheap airport with bad connections ) and I do not want to fly Ryanair ( very cheap company ) . I will fly one way back BOD BRU the 25 of march ! FR had a flight at 50 € (+/- ) ! SN had a flight via ZRH or MUC around 200 € . Finally I'll fly KL ( 3 or 4 flights a day ) for 88 €. Perfect. Living between BOD and BRU I know there is a market between Nouvelle Aquitaine and Belgium...obviously.

[oldblueeyes]

If a company can fly destination A and earn 5 EUR why should it fly destination B and earn only 4?

Business decision are not emotional.

If for you, on a personal level, there is a demand it is fine, but everything that appears relevant to us as individuals reflects the real demand.

I would also prefer to see other sports than football on free tv but obviously this is more lucrative for the broadcasters.

[Miqvell]

The "growth" continues : SN appears to either be removing Edinburgh from October, or converting to summer seasonal.

Source : @GeorgeNTravels

[luchtzak]

The "growth" continues : SN appears to either be removing Edinburgh from October, or converting to summer seasonal.

As far as I know, this always has been a summer destination.

[Miqvell]

The "growth" continues : SN appears to either be removing Edinburgh from October, or converting to summer seasonal.

As far as I know, this always has been a summer destination.

No, as Flightera data shows.

[oldblueeyes]

The "growth" continues : SN appears to either be removing Edinburgh from October, or converting to summer seasonal.

Source : @GeorgeNTravels

Growth means more pax, regardless where.

See the facts, just published this morning - SN is not at the point where profitability is sustainable - 3,4% EBIT is not a dream result.

So obviously, in such cases you shift less profitable destinations to more profitable ones.

This may be boring, uncool, name it how you want for aviation geeks, but the company is there to make business.

[fcw]

If a company can fly destination A and earn 5 EUR why should it fly destination B and earn only 4?

Business decision are not emotional.

Correct! So may I suggest you stop bashing Ryanair for making money by flying from nowhere to nowhere?

[lumumba]

If a company can fly destination A and earn 5 EUR why should it fly destination B and earn only 4?

Business decision are not emotional.

Correct! So may I suggest you stop bashing Ryanair for making money by flying from nowhere to nowhere?

with subsidies (and low taxes from Irlande that received a lot of money from the EU!)for flying to airports that are not profitable.....Ryanair is an economic and ecological aberration!

[Lux_avi]

Ryanair is an economic and ecological aberration!

Stupid comments on forums pollute more than planes worldwide.
Just saying.

[lumumba]

Ryanair is an economic and ecological aberration!

Stupid comments on forums pollute more than planes worldwide.
Just saying.

Why stupid?
It's an opinion.

[RoMax]

Ryanair is an economic and ecological aberration!

Stupid comments on forums pollute more than planes worldwide.
Just saying.

You mean like one of the most competition distorting situations in all of European airline industry (Ryanair’s position in CRL), right. The only reason it still exists as if CRL is a small 2mio pax regional airport today is because of Belgium’s unique political set-up. Yes from a competitive point of view of it’s outrageous that airlines at CRL (a 9mio pax million airport) are not paying for their actual ATC costs (it’s the BRU operators that bring in the balance for Skeyes). Etc. Etc. Etc.

[fcw]

You mean like one of the most competition distorting situations in all of European airline industry (Ryanair’s position in CRL), right. The only reason it still exists as if CRL is a small 2mio pax regional airport today is because of Belgium’s unique political set-up. Yes from a competitive point of view of it’s outrageous that airlines at CRL (a 9mio pax million airport) are not paying for their actual ATC costs (it’s the BRU operators that bring in the balance for Skeyes). Etc. Etc. Etc.

Let’s not start again, shall we!
How many legacies would be alive today without state aid?

[oldblueeyes]

Let's be reasonable , both sides!

The only raison d'etre for CRL is provincial pride of the french speaking part of the country. There is neither a regional need nor a capacity contraint at the main airport.

It is fair enough to say that for Rynair is a place of strong focus, as it was the first base they openend in continental Europe back in 2001.

At the same time it is also fair to say that their success is based paralelly to a very straight forward business model on subsidies offered to them just becauseof local pride.

The fact is that due to this type of competition there is no fair game related on commercial performance, only.

So before say A is good and B is bad, always think:

- SN is maybe more expensive ( so bad for all those complaining) because they have to pay indirectly the subsidies Ryanair and Wizz are getting ( but of course they are good)
- if you strike for better salaries - be aware that companies have to count on cost and the Rynair crew is recruited in Bulgaria and paid via a Malta offshore are their B737 pilots are contractors paid by the hour
- if you ask yourself why the one is flying here and the other one there look on subsidies especially smaller airports offer and often with dedicated clients (just look on new routes subsidies Wizz and Ryanair are getting across Europe where they havea base and the target route is not even the metropolitan area but just a specific airport where legacies do not fly)

This is the environment SN has to navigate.

They need to be more premium like Rynair as the business model is not to run away as subsidies end and come to the makret with such low expectations that they can cancel any flight at any time.
And they won't be a full network carrier even in the future - African routes are a small concession for own good feeling.

By the way - Eurowing reported 2nd best group profit in % after Swiss - building consequently a high yield P2P airline without loosing focus on peanuts routes (they had the Q400 legacy as well) and pushing back the low yield long haul to LH/Discover paid off.

There may be something they are doing right and an educated guess is that SN would keep it's emotinal brand for the locals, but swallow a lot of pride and replicate in many things what Eurowings does.