Brussels Airlines in 2023

[lumumba]

Flying (long haul) on SN has become like playing the lottery.

As long as LH refuses to invest in a decent (in size), modern long haul fleet for SN, these things will continue to happen and customers will run away.



(in the meantime: 787's for OS, A350's for LX)

(as for SN: "here's 1 extra 15-year-old A330 we found somewhere. Yay!")

Each Group airline gets new long haul aircraft when they are due.
Currently SN has leasings for mid life aircraft until the end of the decade - no urgency to change.
And by the way, the mother company is flying with some 25+ years long haul airplanes, so where is the point to change what SN flies?
OS is changing a 25 y old long haul fleet against used 789.
Swiss is changing 25 y old 343 against new 359 - but they deliver enough profits to afford them.

And last but not least look at the destinations SN is flying : to what extend technical problems are not caused by the reality that in sub Saharan Africa you might not have the local skills, spare parts available and generally the infrastructure for state of the art aircraft? In those markets often not the fanciest solution is the best one.

I understand I can be agree but is the cancellations not high with Brussels Airlines compared to there competitors?

[convair]

And last but not least look at the destinations SN is flying : to what extend technical problems are not caused by the reality that in sub Saharan Africa you might not have the local skills, spare parts available and generally the infrastructure for state of the art aircraft? In those markets often not the fanciest solution is the best one.

I agree; this probably plays a big role in those fleet reliability problems.

[Matt]

Flying (long haul) on SN has become like playing the lottery.

As long as LH refuses to invest in a decent (in size), modern long haul fleet for SN, these things will continue to happen and customers will run away.



(in the meantime: 787's for OS, A350's for LX)

(as for SN: "here's 1 extra 15-year-old A330 we found somewhere. Yay!")

Owh please.

If put in a 5y old aircraft or an 18y old aircraft: you'll hardly notice the difference if the plane is well maintained (especially the A330!)

[nordikcam]

And the circus continues...FIH BRU canceled / BRU IAD canceled. Someone to give me just one good reason to fly "SN" when there is an advertising campaign for New York for €399...You can't recommend SN to anyone. You have to look for more and especially fly from elsewhere...CDG for example! Six flights canceled this month...that's one day yes, one day no!

[fcw]

And last but not least look at the destinations SN is flying : to what extend technical problems are not caused by the reality that in sub Saharan Africa you might not have the local skills, spare parts available and generally the infrastructure for state of the art aircraft? In those markets often not the fanciest solution is the best one.

I agree; this probably plays a big role in those fleet reliability problems.

The problem is resilience, not reliability! The resources are overstretched in an attempt to become profitable. The 10th 330 should be a spare, otherwise it will only accentuate the problem.

[luchtzak]

And the circus continues...FIH BRU canceled / BRU IAD canceled. Someone to give me just one good reason to fly "SN" when there is an advertising campaign for New York for €399...You can't recommend SN to anyone. You have to look for more and especially fly from elsewhere...CDG for example! Six flights canceled this month...that's one day yes, one day no!

The second cancellation in two days resulted in an angry mob: https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/luft ... shasa-drc/

[lumumba]

And the circus continues...FIH BRU canceled / BRU IAD canceled. Someone to give me just one good reason to fly "SN" when there is an advertising campaign for New York for €399...You can't recommend SN to anyone. You have to look for more and especially fly from elsewhere...CDG for example! Six flights canceled this month...that's one day yes, one day no!

The second cancellation in two days resulted in an angry mob: https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/luft ... shasa-drc/

It's been like this for years, at the time they rented an old Tristar for the flights but it was already scandalous...
I don't understand that why?

[Boavida]

^^ But there is no problem! According to the experts on this forum, SN does not need new (modern) aircraft. What a relief

[JOVAN2]

Meanwhile in Kinshasa.
Pax blocked for 2 days.
Technical problems with antique SN- Airbus

[rwandan-flyer]

And last but not least look at the destinations SN is flying : to what extend technical problems are not caused by the reality that in sub Saharan Africa you might not have the local skills, spare parts available and generally the infrastructure for state of the art aircraft? In those markets often not the fanciest solution is the best one.

I agree; this probably plays a big role in those fleet reliability problems.

The problem is resilience, not reliability! The resources are overstretched in an attempt to become profitable. The 10th 330 should be a spare, otherwise it will only accentuate the problem.

And the circus continues...FIH BRU canceled / BRU IAD canceled. Someone to give me just one good reason to fly "SN" when there is an advertising campaign for New York for €399...You can't recommend SN to anyone. You have to look for more and especially fly from elsewhere...CDG for example! Six flights canceled this month...that's one day yes, one day no!

The second cancellation in two days resulted in an angry mob: https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/luft ... shasa-drc/

AF canceled several flights each year. I can confirm because i work at CDG Airport. This summer there were some cancelations to USA. Delta has also some cancelations and huge delays at CDG.

Sometimes (AF) they operate the flight but with a different aircraft and so not the same config. So plane is sometimes smaller (A350 replaced by an A330 or a B777-300 replaced by a B777-200). If the flight is full, some people can't fly and will be put on another flight the following days.

[fcw]

The second cancellation in two days resulted in an angry mob: https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/luft ... shasa-drc/

A cancelled flight is always a big hassle the passengers are, understandably upset and angry, BUT behaviour like this should not be tolerated! Imagine a mishap on the return flight and hell will brake loose again. This is disruptive behaviour, they should be told to go back inside the terminal immediately or face a ban for the flight.

[nordikcam]

And tomorrow the winner is...Yaoundé Douala canceled !

Why not stop everything for 15 days, repair everything, take a deep breath...and possibly leave again...but I'm sure there is a Yaoundé and a Douala from CDG tomorrow!

[Matt]

Meanwhile in Kinshasa.
Pax blocked for 2 days.
Technical problems with antique SN- Airbus

See, comments like that is the reason why people don't take you serious anymore.

OO-SFF is 13y old. "Antique" ?

My goodness. Meanwhile, DL flies around with B767 that are almost 30y old. What are those? ANCIENT FROM BEFORE THE STONE AGE ?
?

Mind you, OO-ABF, a brand new A330 from your beloved Air Belgium, is STILL AOG with technical problems since... I don't even know anymore but it's been a while.

People who are saying that SN's problems are due to fleet age do not know what they are talking about. (and they do have problems, not arguing that)

[Darjeeling]

Usually, I don't hold back when it comes to SN, but honestly, this is just absurd.

The SN A330 fleet isn't even remotely old, and let's not beat around the bush here. Lufthansa is still flying antiques A340-300s on critical premium routes like CPT, BOM, IAD, JFK, SJO... Swiss isn't any better with their aging A340s, which are pushing 20 years (but with a very nice upgraded cabin). And don't get me started on AF; their A330s and B777s have seen better days, each one clocking over two decades in service. I don't talk about UA and DL with their 30+ years old B767 (even ex-NW A330s afa DL is concerned).

If the Congolese would stop their incessant whining and cease their obsession with seeing racism and discrimination in every corner of Ndjili and Zaventem, maybe they should begin by establishing their own airline that adheres to international certifications and standards—without resorting to shady dealings and bribes. It's crystal clear that SN has colossal issues with its network, dispatch reliability (daily maintenance is likely at fault on some points), and product consistency (old LH cabins, US services cancellations, ...).

But hey, when you witness the abysmal and repugnant product Lufthansa serves up on their A330/A340/A380/B747 (especially the "premium" cabins), there's absolutely no reason to feel embarrassed.They needed to acquire ex-Hainan B787 and ex-PR A350 to be on par with the competition at some press shows.

[oldblueeyes]

And last but not least look at the destinations SN is flying : to what extend technical problems are not caused by the reality that in sub Saharan Africa you might not have the local skills, spare parts available and generally the infrastructure for state of the art aircraft? In those markets often not the fanciest solution is the best one.

I agree; this probably plays a big role in those fleet reliability problems.

The problem is resilience, not reliability! The resources are overstretched in an attempt to become profitable. The 10th 330 should be a spare, otherwise it will only accentuate the problem.

Resilience comes at a cost as well.

Would be the client ready to pay for it?

If not, maybe re-thinkg where the company flies would be the better option.

You don't need to serve any possible client - thos willing to pay the right price and behave accordingly are sufficient.

[travellover]

I'm not an expert, but KF planes are available every day at BRU. Why not a joint venture between SN and KF to replace defective planes at the eleventh hour? KF has an ACMI business. So ?!!

[oldblueeyes]

So how should this work?

Assuming sombody would sign a contract to have at any time an aircraft available, this would come alongside with some costs.
Despite that Air Belgium does not have the right aircraft - the 332 is to small and the 339 would be to expensive as a backup.

Let's wait and see what fleet adjustments are happening 2024 - very likely some additional 330 would become available.

9x359 are scheduled to be delivered to MUC all with First, which would make 5x346 free to be transferred to FRA
15x789, all brand new are targeted for delivery, all going to FRA, whilst 5x789 would go to OS , makes additional 10 aircraft available from other subfleets.

Makes in total 15 aircraft capacity available for retirements or allocations to other brands.

[Homo Aeroportus]

Now this is good news !
At the end of 2016 SN had only 9 aircraft for their long haul ops.
When LH took 100% of the company it was clearly mentioned that SN was the Group champion on the African market and this enabled the fleet to grow up to 9 aircraft in 2023.
This growth in the last 6 years, with the new promise for a further fleet increase, makes the future bright.

H.A.

[Darjeeling]

I'm not an expert, but KF planes are available every day at BRU. Why not a joint venture between SN and KF to replace defective planes at the eleventh hour? KF has an ACMI business. So ?!!

I strongly suspect that it is more cost-effective for them to cancel the flight, reroute passengers via UA or LH Group, rather than renting a Belgian A339 "one shot" on ACMI. Back when the fleet had 4 aircraft, they used ACMI, but of lower quality (mainly Spanish and Portugese ones like euroAtlantic, Air Plus Comet, even old Tristars) and thus often highly unreliable. Even HiFly was excluded because too expensive for SN.

[oldblueeyes]

Now this is good news !
At the end of 2016 SN had only 9 aircraft for their long haul ops.
When LH took 100% of the company it was clearly mentioned that SN was the Group champion on the African market and this enabled the fleet to grow up to 9 aircraft in 2023.
This growth in the last 6 years, with the new promise for a further fleet increase, makes the future bright.

H.A.

Although i understand pretty well that personnel is looking for job and career opportunities , the main reason for a business is not not maximize the number of available jobs.

The currency in this industry is available and sold seatmiles.

LH was always communicating clearly that the upgauging 332 to 333 was intended to optimize cost of the operations and the delta of capacity is what really matters.

I know , LH are the bad boys, but they are realistic. If they would have been wrong, Air Belgium would be booming now with expanding long haul destinations not served by SN because of bad LH.