Brussels Airlines in 2023

[lumumba]

That's not correct the average passengers per flight to Luanda is 60...with high yield this because FIH without FIH they could do better.
They have to re-examine there strategy on this flight maybe with an A321XLR they are one of the first one that where flying to LAD and they didn't grow why in the mean time others did!

This is interesting and worth further consideration. I personnally don't like narrow bodies for medium/long haul. Looking for an alternate that would enable SN to operate LAD on non-triangle flights, I remembered one of the Airbus models I particularly liked: the A310.
I know it has been out of operation for years, but do you think such an aircraft (with updated instruments technology and engines) or a similar one could be suitable for that kind of flights?

The A310 is finished but why do you don't like narrow bodies for me It's the contrary I like to fly the 757 to the US or the 737 of RAM to Africa?

[convair]

That's not correct the average passengers per flight to Luanda is 60...with high yield this because FIH without FIH they could do better.
They have to re-examine there strategy on this flight maybe with an A321XLR they are one of the first one that where flying to LAD and they didn't grow why in the mean time others did!

This is interesting and worth further consideration. I personnally don't like narrow bodies for medium/long haul. Looking for an alternate that would enable SN to operate LAD on non-triangle flights, I remembered one of the Airbus models I particularly liked: the A310.
I know it has been out of operation for years, but do you think such an aircraft (with updated instruments technology and engines) or a similar one could be suitable for that kind of flights?

The A310 is finished but why do you don't like narrow bodies for me It's the contrary I like to fly the 757 to the US or the 737 of RAM to Africa?

Narrow bodies are OK for short/medium flights but I find wide bodies more pleasant to fly, especially for long haul. They give me a better feeling of comfort. For example, I'd even choose Air Belgium operated A330 for a RAM flight to Casablanca.

[Lux_avi]

Narrow bodies are OK for short/medium flights but I find wide bodies more pleasant to fly, especially for long haul. They give me a better feeling of comfort. For example, I'd even choose Air Belgium operated A330 for a RAM flight to Casablanca.

It all depends on the cabin config. Not only on the AC type.

The 738 fleet at RAM is terribly outdated, ugly and dirty.
On the other hand, Icelandair has a 737 MAX fleet that is much more comfortable IMHO than the AB A330... I

[lumumba]

Narrow bodies are OK for short/medium flights but I find wide bodies more pleasant to fly, especially for long haul. They give me a better feeling of comfort. For example, I'd even choose Air Belgium operated A330 for a RAM flight to Casablanca.

It all depends on the cabin config. Not only on the AC type.

The 738 fleet at RAM is terribly outdated, ugly and dirty.
On the other hand, Icelandair has a 737 MAX fleet that is much more comfortable IMHO than the AB A330... I

737 Max are ok the 737-800 you are right.

[crew1990]

For the crew they can work like the others and arrive in the morning and leave in the evening the crew rest overday.
SN don't fly much cargo to Luanda by the way.

Lovely idea, and so we have an airplane stuck for minimum for 19h, in LAD. I really think you got a point, I send directly a mail to Dorothea straigh away! Why haven't we though about that!

Please stop the non-sense. SN is not allowed to fly more than 3 weekly to LAD because of bilateral agreement, SN will not have A321 to fly long haul, this is how it work in the group and in my opinion they are right. They are bigger priorities at the moment than LAD sorry for that.

[lumumba]

For the crew they can work like the others and arrive in the morning and leave in the evening the crew rest overday.
SN don't fly much cargo to Luanda by the way.

Lovely idea, and so we have an airplane stuck for minimum for 19h, in LAD. I really think you got a point, I send directly a mail to Dorothea straigh away! Why haven't we though about that!

All other airlines to that Lufthansa also arriving at 5h30 and departing at 22h if you have an better idea I'm ready to listen but they need to fly direct in my opinion and grow there market share its just my opinion.
All airlines can only operate 3 times weekly from LAD.
I don't see why you are reacting like that?!

[crew1990]

Air France and Lufthansa have a much bigger fleet than SN giving them much more flexibility, do you really think that with only 9 aircraft we will use one of them for a rotation of more than 30h, more than half of it on the ground in LAD not making any revenue? It woud simply be loss making. I know you are very attached to Luanda, this is also a destination we really like at Brussels and this is why we serve it, and would probably increase if Angola permit us to do so but as I said we can make much more money elsewhere with the ressources we have at the moment.

[convair]

Air France and Lufthansa have a much bigger fleet than SN giving them much more flexibility, do you really think that with only 9 aircraft we will use one of them for a rotation of more than 30h, more than half of it on the ground in LAD not making any revenue? It woud simply be loss making. I know you are very attached to Luanda, this is also a destination we really like at Brussels and this is why we serve it, and would probably increase if Angola permit us to do so but as I said we can make much more money elsewhere with the ressources we have at the moment.

There are currently 2 flights weekly; aren't they allowed 3 as stated by Lumumba?

[crew1990]

Air France and Lufthansa have a much bigger fleet than SN giving them much more flexibility, do you really think that with only 9 aircraft we will use one of them for a rotation of more than 30h, more than half of it on the ground in LAD not making any revenue? It woud simply be loss making. I know you are very attached to Luanda, this is also a destination we really like at Brussels and this is why we serve it, and would probably increase if Angola permit us to do so but as I said we can make much more money elsewhere with the ressources we have at the moment.

There are currently 2 flights weekly; aren't they allowed 3 as stated by Lumumba?

There are in normal time 3 weekly flight, BRU-LAD-FIH-BRU on Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday. Luanda is however suspended temporarly at the moment as the added flight time due to Niger airspace beeing closed does not make it operationaly feasable.

[Matt]

Air France and Lufthansa have a much bigger fleet than SN giving them much more flexibility, do you really think that with only 9 aircraft we will use one of them for a rotation of more than 30h, more than half of it on the ground in LAD not making any revenue? It woud simply be loss making. I know you are very attached to Luanda, this is also a destination we really like at Brussels and this is why we serve it, and would probably increase if Angola permit us to do so but as I said we can make much more money elsewhere with the ressources we have at the moment.

There are currently 2 flights weekly; aren't they allowed 3 as stated by Lumumba?

There are in normal time 3 weekly flight, BRU-LAD-FIH-BRU on Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday. Luanda is however suspended temporarly at the moment as the added flight time due to Niger airspace beeing closed does not make it operationaly feasable.

Rotations of more than 30h are really expensive and for SN just not feasible. as pointed out by Crew1990 : SN only has a long haul fleet of 9 aircraft that needs to be used as optimally as possible. (heck; it's chaos when 1 has a technical problem)

Leaving 1 aircraft for a 30h rotation is not optimal. Far from it.

It's one of the mistakes that AB is making with those JNB-CPT flights, Those rotations leave little to no room for other flights and frankly, I can't believe they make profit off those flights. I still don't understand why they are serving JNB/CPT but anyway

[PopUp]

Air France and Lufthansa have a much bigger fleet than SN giving them much more flexibility, do you really think that with only 9 aircraft we will use one of them for a rotation of more than 30h, more than half of it on the ground in LAD not making any revenue? It woud simply be loss making. I know you are very attached to Luanda, this is also a destination we really like at Brussels and this is why we serve it, and would probably increase if Angola permit us to do so but as I said we can make much more money elsewhere with the ressources we have at the moment.

There are currently 2 flights weekly; aren't they allowed 3 as stated by Lumumba?

There are in normal time 3 weekly flight, BRU-LAD-FIH-BRU on Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday. Luanda is however suspended temporarly at the moment as the added flight time due to Niger airspace beeing closed does not make it operationaly feasable.

After reading all the comments (and not being an expert myself) the question which comes to mind now is : is it still worth for SN to fly to Luanda ?

[travellover]

After reading all the comments (and not being an expert myself) the question which comes to mind now is : is it still worth for SN to fly to Luanda ?

As crew1990 say, there is a will to keep that beloved connection alive

I think at least 30 years since the Sabena days.
Not far from FIH for triangular flights.
Important oil country could be one of the reasons to keep that connection.

[crew1990]

TBD

[lumumba]

Air France and Lufthansa have a much bigger fleet than SN giving them much more flexibility, do you really think that with only 9 aircraft we will use one of them for a rotation of more than 30h, more than half of it on the ground in LAD not making any revenue? It woud simply be loss making. I know you are very attached to Luanda, this is also a destination we really like at Brussels and this is why we serve it, and would probably increase if Angola permit us to do so but as I said we can make much more money elsewhere with the ressources we have at the moment.

There are currently 2 flights weekly; aren't they allowed 3 as stated by Lumumba?

That is correct before they stopped flying they already downgraded it to 2 flights a week and Lufthansa also !!!!
Not so long ago they where the strongest in Luanda with 6 flights a week today again they are losing market share to Qatar,Turkish etc....
Even Royal Air Maroc is doing good here all the 3 flights are almost full every flight and they have a good product.

[crew1990]

No this is 3 times per week... it was already like that and it will continue to be like that when Niger airspace will open again.

https://www.flightconnections.com/fligh ... bru-to-lad

[lumumba]

No this is 3 times per week... it was already like that and it will continue to be like that when Niger airspace will open again.

https://www.flightconnections.com/fligh ... bru-to-lad

No they canceled Thursday already in July till October you have to check your informations...it's mentioned in the link you send till 21 of September and this was already in July.
And Lufthansa canceled Tuesday.

[crew1990]

It's a temporary decrease, check all other month, and you'll see it's 3 weekly flight, anyway...

[lumumba]

It's a temporary decrease, check all other month, and you'll see it's 3 weekly flight, anyway...

Exactly but it's a decrease and Lufthansa did the same I never said it was definitely but it's weird for the summer season even more knowing that lufhansa did the same...and now Brussels Airlines have to cancel so they only have 2 flights till September...that's weak.

[fcw]

Exactly but it's a decrease and Lufthansa did the same I never said it was definitely but it's weird for the summer season even more knowing that lufhansa did the same...and now Brussels Airlines have to cancel so they only have 2 flights till September...that's weak.

Making cost efficient adjustments isn’t weird nor weak! Historically the demand for FIH increases during holiday periods whilst the demand for LAD decreases. There’s more money to be made with a non stop FIH then with a triangular flight hence the reduction during summer. The same goes for temporary cancellation due to the closure of the Nigerien airspace, due to the triangular flight the crew duty limits are exceeded and it’s not economically viable to put extra crew hence the temporary cancellation.
It would be weak and weird not to take advantage of certain opportunities and flying, marginally profitable, routes who put more pressure on the already stretched operations.

[longwings]

Leaving 1 aircraft for a 30h rotation is not optimal. Far from it.

It's one of the mistakes that AB is making with those JNB-CPT flights, Those rotations leave little to no room for other flights and frankly, I can't believe they make profit off those flights.

Not optimal indeed, yet British Airways, United, AA, Lufthansa, QANTAS, Air Canada, Delta, etc. do it on the daily. Biggest issue is Brussels' smaller fleet, as you pointed out.

Keep market conditions in mind. Passengers may not want to fly when airlines want them to. Why so many US aircraft spend the day in South America. Almost zero demand for daytime flights back to the US. Tried and failed!

As for Air Belgium, is there a profitable route they could operate if the plane didn't idle with the crew? If not, leave the plane resting with the crew and save three hotel nights per crew. Cost of parking the plane in CPT/JNB or BRU is not that different.

For the crew they can work like the others and arrive in the morning and leave in the evening the crew rest overday.

And kill TATL connections. Airlines that land in LAD in the morning either are not interested in TATL connections, or have an afternoon/evening arrival bank from the US to feed their LAD flights.