Ryanair in 2015

[RTM]

As for me, I find it right and comforting that every Ryanair customer - celebrity or not - is treated in the same manner.

I actually agree... Everybody should get an answer about their lost Luggage...

[Inquirer]

I wonder, why wasn't this cabin bag handed back to her right the steps of the plane upon arrival in BRU?
I know several other airlines do this at BRU and in this case it would potentially avoid the problem of the very bad luggage handling at BRU which Sean highlighted. Especially hand luggage may be fragile and get damaged more quickly than other types of luggage?

Several reasons i assume, efficiency being the main one. Sorting out yellow tags coming from the hold from bags with normal tags. Bringing them to the steps, having passengers stand/wait on the apron for their bag to be brought over possibly delaying boarding for the next sector.

Thank you.
So it's actually a deliberate downgrading of the standard passenger service levels routinely offered by handling companies at Brussels Airport for nothing but their own benefit, even if it inconveniences their passengers more than needed. After reading 600 times the routine excuse it was due to security reasons, your detailed factual explanation of the real reasons is much enlightening.

[epsilon]

I wonder, why wasn't this cabin bag handed back to her right the steps of the plane upon arrival in BRU?
I know several other airlines do this at BRU and in this case it would potentially avoid the problem of the very bad luggage handling at BRU which Sean highlighted. Especially hand luggage may be fragile and get damaged more quickly than other types of luggage?

Several reasons i assume, efficiency being the main one. Sorting out yellow tags coming from the hold from bags with normal tags. Bringing them to the steps, having passengers stand/wait on the apron for their bag to be brought over possibly delaying boarding for the next sector.

Thank you.
So it's actually a deliberate downgrading of the standard passenger service levels routinely offered by handling companies at Brussels Airport for nothing but their own benefit, even if it inconveniences their passengers more than needed. After reading 600 times the routine excuse it was due to security reasons, your detailed factual explanation of the real reasons is much enlightening.

I did not say those are the actual reasons, just personal thoughts(hence the "i assume"), big difference.
And well done for (deliberately?) editing out the one about safety from your quote. :thumbup:

[sean1982]

I wonder, why wasn't this cabin bag handed back to her right the steps of the plane upon arrival in BRU?
I know several other airlines do this at BRU and in this case it would potentially avoid the problem of the very bad luggage handling at BRU which Sean highlighted. Especially hand luggage may be fragile and get damaged more quickly than other types of luggage?

Several reasons i assume, efficiency being the main one. Sorting out yellow tags coming from the hold from bags with normal tags. Bringing them to the steps, having passengers stand/wait on the apron for their bag to be brought over possibly delaying boarding for the next sector.

Thank you.
So it's actually a deliberate downgrading of the standard passenger service levels routinely offered by handling companies at Brussels Airport for nothing but their own benefit, even if it inconveniences their passengers more than needed. After reading 600 times the routine excuse it was due to security reasons, your detailed factual explanation of the real reasons is much enlightening.

euhm while walking to crew room I heard an SN, TAP and LH boarding PA and ALL 3 of them said: excess baggage will be collected and placed in the hold ... will be made available on the airport baggage belt?
So who's downgrading what?

[sean1982]

As for me, I find it right and comforting that every Ryanair customer - celebrity or not - is treated in the same manner.

I actually agree... Everybody should get an answer about their lost Luggage...

As for the bag. Bag is lost, airline is contacted by pax or bag handeler directly, airline directs pax to bag handeler, bag handeler tries to find bag, bag isnt found, bag handeler refers pax to airline for lost bag claim, airline investigates and pays pax legal industry wide amount (no matter how many Armani suits are in there unless they where declared beforehand), end of story.

Miss Phara will have to wait like "jefke van achter den hoek" for this process to complete. With my grand-mother and KLM it took 5 months.

[Avroflyer]

euhm while walking to crew room I heard an SN, TAP and LH boarding PA and ALL 3 of them said: excess baggage will be collected and placed in the hold ... will be made available on the airport baggage belt?
So who's downgrading what?

Due to ground handling regulations indeed all handbags on SN flights ex BRU that are loaded into the hold will be delivered on the belt however on flights to BRU Swissport will deliver the handbags at the door if it are 12 pieces or less and I guess that isn't exclusive to SN such service

However to put things straight on a remote stand bags aren't delivered at the stairs (only strollers) since indeed safety regulations don't allow for pax to wait on the Tarmac so there is no downgrading just correct application of the safety rules

[sean1982]

euhm while walking to crew room I heard an SN, TAP and LH boarding PA and ALL 3 of them said: excess baggage will be collected and placed in the hold ... will be made available on the airport baggage belt?
So who's downgrading what?

Due to ground handling regulations indeed all handbags on SN flights ex BRU that are loaded into the hold will be delivered on the belt however on flights to BRU Swissport will deliver the handbags at the door if it are 12 pieces or less and I guess that isn't exclusive to SN such service

However to put things straight on a remote stand bags aren't delivered at the stairs (only strollers) since indeed safety regulations don't allow for pax to wait on the Tarmac so there is no downgrading just correct application of the safety rules

Thanks Avroflyer!
Inquirer, seems that I did tell you 600 times the truth. Thanks once again for implying im a liar

[Inquirer]

Due to ground handling regulations indeed all handbags on SN flights ex BRU that are loaded into the hold will be delivered on the belt, however on flights to BRU Swissport will deliver the handbags at the door if it are 12 pieces or less and I guess that isn't exclusive to SN such service

Thank you for the additional explanation Avroflyer!
Your comment settles a long standing dispute for once and for all, you know that?
It clearly explains how I can regularly get my hand luggage handed back to me at the door of the plane upon arrival at BRU, even though Sean has been repeatedly pretending here that such simply isn't true and has been quite unfriendly for me daring to say he had it all wrong and me sticking to it.

However to put things straight on a remote stand bags aren't delivered at the stairs (only strollers) since indeed safety regulations don't allow for pax to wait on the Tarmac so there is no downgrading just correct application of the safety rules

Since the choice to operate from remote stands (you mean planes parked out on the tarmac, right?) is a deliberate one in case of ryanair (and easyjet too), both companies must have decided they have no issue whatsoever with the additional negative consequences of that choice, other than a walk to the plane.
As such the real reason for the disconvenience of not having your hand luggage handed back at the stairs is not to be found in the safety rules itself, but rather in their commercial operating model; the safety issue is just a consequence of the first, and should thus not be used as an excuse: Epsilon gave a nice overview of all the 'hidden' reasons why they think it's worthwile for them not to care about it.

[SNam]

About the remote stands, i've heard that SN will test position 126, 138, etc. So the Ryanair and Easyjet positions.

[Avroflyer]

@Inquirer I'm glad I've brought a dispute to rest on this forum

It is indeed a choice of those companies made indeed but to be honest I don't think most pax really care a lot about that (especially tourists) but that's just an assumption

@SNam (actually it is off topic) indeed SN would like to use those "walk-to stands only during peak moments in the morning when terminal A is congested and flights have to be parked at remote locations which isn't ideal for the connecting pax as a bus drive takes quite a while from time to time (for example from the satellite ) so using those stands would shorten transit time for those pax but I'm personally not sure if they would succeed since those stands are already heavily used .

[flightlover]

When they should be re-gigging the tarmac space next to the connector it might be possible to ad some more remote stands to that end. But then Swissport has to relocate it's equipment parking area.

[sean1982]

Due to ground handling regulations indeed all handbags on SN flights ex BRU that are loaded into the hold will be delivered on the belt, however on flights to BRU Swissport will deliver the handbags at the door if it are 12 pieces or less and I guess that isn't exclusive to SN such service

Thank you for the additional explanation Avroflyer!
Your comment settles a long standing dispute for once and for all, you know that?
It clearly explains how I can regularly get my hand luggage handed back to me at the door of the plane upon arrival at BRU, even though Sean has been repeatedly pretending here that such simply isn't true and has been quite unfriendly for me daring to say he had it all wrong and me sticking to it.

However to put things straight on a remote stand bags aren't delivered at the stairs (only strollers) since indeed safety regulations don't allow for pax to wait on the Tarmac so there is no downgrading just correct application of the safety rules

Since the choice to operate from remote stands (you mean planes parked out on the tarmac, right?) is a deliberate one in case of ryanair (and easyjet too), both companies must have decided they have no issue whatsoever with the additional negative consequences of that choice, other than a walk to the plane.
As such the real reason for the disconvenience of not having your hand luggage handed back at the stairs is not to be found in the safety rules itself, but rather in their commercial operating model; the safety issue is just a consequence of the first, and should thus not be used as an excuse: Epsilon gave a nice overview of all the 'hidden' reasons why they think it's worthwile for them not to care about it.

Whatever way you try to spin this back into your favor you're wrong our loadfactors are close to 100% on all flights especially in summer. We typically offload about 40-50 cabin bags on every flight. There is not a single airport in europe that allows 40-50 passengers standing around in an airbridge or on the apron trying to sort who's bag is whom's for half an hour. Let alone a handeling company who wants their personel to sort 40-50 cabin bags from checked in bags (cause due to weight and balance all bags are loaded in the same hold) Not a single one. As SN is moving to bigger aircraft and the service is only provided up to 12 bags, this "service" will probably also disappear with them in the future. Are you going to slag them (and their employees) off as well for the commercial decision to operate bigger airplanes then?

[Stij]

When they should be re-gigging the tarmac space next to the connector it might be possible to ad some more remote stands to that end. But then Swissport has to relocate it's equipment parking area.

Lets stay on the FR topic!

[Inquirer]

Whatever way you try to spin this back into your favor you're wrong our loadfactors are close to 100% on all flights especially in summer. We typically offload about 40-50 cabin bags on every flight. There is not a single airport in europe that allows 40-50 passengers standing around in an airbridge or on the apron trying to sort who's bag is whom's for half an hour. Let alone a handeling company who wants their personel to sort 40-50 cabin bags from checked in bags (cause due to weight and balance all bags are loaded in the same hold) Not a single one. As SN is moving to bigger aircraft and the service is only provided up to 12 bags, this "service" will probably also disappear with them in the future. Are you going to slag them (and their employees) off as well for the commercial decision to operate bigger airplanes then?

Why would I slag a company for a commercial decision (not) to offer a certain customer service, knowing product differences are a very good tool to diversify a product in a very saturated market?
Equally, I wouldn't slag an employee for ofering me the product of his company and not rendering me a better service other airlines do provide me routinely with.
It's all part of a business model and as a customer it's something you chose for when you buy a certain product (or not), so you shouldn't come by to complain afterwards, IMHO.
When you called for just a LADA, don't expect a ride in a BMW, simple as that.
But excuse me for not accepting it when a forum member (airline employee or other) is telling me something just isn't done at BRU like 600 times and as recent as last evening even (!), when I know for a fact that it is done very frequently, something you've now come to learn too thanks to Avroflyer which took the time to explain the current procedure in detail.

BTW- I am not going to go get involved in clearing up more misconceptions about the service levels offered by others, but let me tell you that your claim not a single airport or handling company in Europe would do 40 or 50 handbags, is just wrong again. Now that it's clear that it can easily be done after all, it's not so difficult to imagine an increase to the company limit of 12 pieces Avroflyer mentioned by simply increasing the number of ground staff, is it, so it's really weird to see you make another vehement statement like this one, so soon after being shown completely wrong on a related one.

Given ryanair is constantly trying to improve their service levels, it's a little bit sobering to see how on numerous occasions you have been reacting extremely annoyed when users of other airlines point out less obvious product differences to you, brushing them aside with false excuses. Still remember the discussion we had about the automated sending of a boarding pass to passengers, for instance? Great product feature, IMHO and one you could even commercialize too, so there's no need to give away revenues from fees and fines, which I understand is often an issue for a low cost.

It's a little bit of a paternalistic attitude to decide which features are worthwhile to be seen as a product improvement and which aren't. I'd hope management is understanding that the new trend is to offer as much options as possible, because the difference between no service and full service airlines is disappearing fast: the future belongs to those airlines which do offer the most service options, IMHO. Brushing aside a whole bunch of potential options is not a very good attitude to start with.

[sn26567]

We typically offload about 40-50 cabin bags on every flight.

That is due to high seat density on Ryanair's 737s and their expensive hold baggage policy. This is less likely to occur on legacy airlines where many passengers in the more expensive classes benefit from free hold luggage, and the other passengers have individually more room for their bodies AND for their hand baggage. Thus it will seldom happen that they have to send more than 12 pieces of hand baggage to the hold.

[theeuropean]

O'Leary was supposed to have a press conference in Copenhagen today. It has been cancelled/postponed due to the fire at the hangar in Dublin. The plane had a delayed departure and is only scheduled to arrive later this afternoon.

Source: http://www.check-in.dk/hangar-brand-luk ... d2Zw_mqpBc (the article is in Danish)

[Inquirer]

We typically offload about 40-50 cabin bags on every flight.

That is due to high seat density on Ryanair's 737s and their expensive hold baggage policy. This is less likely to occur on legacy airlines where many passengers in the more expensive classes benefit from free hold luggage, and the other passengers have individually more room for their bodies AND for their hand baggage. Thus it will seldom happen that they have to send more than 12 pieces of hand baggage to the hold.

That seems logical to me.
When you have a lower seat count, you indeed have more space in the overhead lockers per passenger and more space under the seat too (since those are placed roomier) on similar sized planes.
As such, their recent decision to offer a second piece of hand luggage is clearly more of a PR advertising feature than a product improvement feature, because there is simply no room for it onboard, by Sean's own account. Nice illustration of how product improvements are systematically limited to those without any revenues/cost effect, thus making them of rather fictitious character in most cases too, of course.

[airazurxtror]

Ryanair boss Michael O’Leary has labelled claims the airline could have to pay £610 million in potential compensation as “trot”.
O’Leary continued: “Here’s the reality – all Ryanair passengers at the moment are entitled to claim compensation if there are flight delays, up to a two-year period.
“Our best calculation is that if every single passenger who didn’t claim within two years and claimed within six years – over a four year period – it might cost us something in the order of about £4.5 million. The likely claims would be less than about £1,000.

“The only issue here is do we really have to have six years. We don’t even keep records for six years, after two years we throw them out.”

“I think most people would accept that no matter how irate a passenger might be after being inconvenienced by a delay, they probably calm down enough within two years in order to make the claim. They really don’t need years three, four, five and six.”

Flight delay lawyer Kevin Clarke, who acted on behalf of Goel & Trivedi, said last week: “We are delighted that the court has dismissed yet another argument put forward by the airlines to restrict passenger rights.
“This should have concluded matters but unfortunately Ryanair has been able to tweak the argument; we found ourselves running a complicated court case arguing the fine points of contract law.”

O’Leary continued: “We have a policy of always appealing cases, especially when they are taken by compensation-chasing lawyers.

[sean1982]

We typically offload about 40-50 cabin bags on every flight.

That is due to high seat density on Ryanair's 737s and their expensive hold baggage policy. This is less likely to occur on legacy airlines where many passengers in the more expensive classes benefit from free hold luggage, and the other passengers have individually more room for their bodies AND for their hand baggage. Thus it will seldom happen that they have to send more than 12 pieces of hand baggage to the hold.

That seems logical to me.
When you have a lower seat count, you indeed have more space in the overhead lockers per passenger and more space under the seat too (since those are placed roomier) on similar sized planes.
As such, their recent decision to offer a second piece of hand luggage is clearly more of a PR advertising feature than a product improvement feature, because there is simply no room for it onboard, by Sean's own account. Nice illustration of how product improvements are systematically limited to those without any revenues/cost effect, thus making them of rather fictitious character in most cases too, of course.

You are hilarious ... I tell you what the effect is for the passengers with the baggage policy. They dont pay for a checked in bag, they arrive at the boarding gate and ASK THEMSELVES for their bag to be tagged and loaded into the hold, thus having their bag checked in for free. Passengers that REALLY want their bag with them buy priority, a premium seat or business plus. Both their bags are garantueed into the cabin Win - Win for the passengers

[Passenger]

O'Leary said: “The only issue here is do we really have to have six years. We don’t even keep records for six years, after two years we throw them out.”

Every small independent trader in Belgium has to keep all its records for 5+5 years. And a big company like Ryanair would "throw them out" / trash them after two years? Without even storing them in a cloud or on a hard disk? Strange/funny (read: unbelievable).

O’Leary continued: “We have a policy of always appealing cases, especially when they are taken by compensation-chasing lawyers.

This is eigen schuld dikke bult. It's the low cost airlines themselves who made companies like EUClaim so strong, by giving them lots of business. Off topic: I don't like those claim firms neither, because the EU has installed NEB's (National Enforcement bodies) who do it for free. Dutch public tv NOS recently stated that Ryanair and EasyJet are the worst airlines to settle disputes amically, when it's clear that an indemnity has to be paid. So it's the airlines own fault that so many people ask legal firms for help. I posted the NOS findings already on 21st August here:
https://www.aviation24.be/forums/viewtopic ... 40#p321302

O'Leary said: “I think most people would accept that no matter how irate a passenger might be after being inconvenienced by a delay, they probably calm down enough within two years in order to make the claim. They really don’t need years three, four, five and six.”

The U.K. Supreme Court has ruled it is 6 years, basta.

(edited: quote adjustment added - "O'Leary")