Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

[airazurxtror]

Elle a été placée en isolation en attendant les résultats des analyses, effectuées ce lundi par l’Institut des Maladies Tropicales d’Anvers.
Results expected to be available this evening.

[teach]

I saw them this morning rue de la Loi : escort of policemen on motor bike, sirens, two (?) ambulances with drivers in full Ebola suits, masks included : we are in the soup !
Even if it's not yet the real thing, we'll say already : thank you Brussels Airlines, thank you Gustin !

What an idiotic response.

[cathay belgium]

Hi,

If everyone pulls out, the last one standing isn't brave but stupid IMO..

SN still needs to pull out in my opinion, the military needs to take over...
Saying thank you won't prevent the belgian citizins of being in danger because a CEO sees more money of doing irresponsable decisions by making some , urgent needed, money during a catastrophy...

Let the africans die there? Yes, .. and help them but there...
Ebola isn't a game..

Guess our government needed to pull the plug out of SN ebola effected countries and pay them compensation to so.. if they can due to Putin pears , why not for Gustin's planes...
But money rules everywhere..

Hope It isn't Ebola and pray for the girl and the pax who were in it...
Can imagine their fears...

greetz,

CXB

[RoMax]

If everyone pulls out, the last one standing isn't brave but stupid IMO..

They are not the last one standing. Air France still serves Conakry, RAM still serves all 3 nations and Air Côte d'Ivoire (20% owned by Air France-KLM) resumed their services to all 3 nations.

And with SN, RAM, AF and now Air Côte d'Ivoire getting support from the US, the UN, the Belgian government, MSF, WHO, IATA, etc. don't expect them to pull out. And I'm not going to repeat what has been said numerous times in this topic, but I totally agree.

[nordikcam]

Let the africans die there? Yes, .. and help them but there...
Ebola isn't a game..

CXB

Are you a human being ?

[airazurxtror]

Are you a human being ?

@ moderator : if one must post only facts, it should also be mandatory to remain well-mannered.
There are here a few ill-breeded fellows (grossiers personnages) who freely insult whoever does not agree with them. Very low, if you ask me.

[jan_olieslagers]

Agreed. Actualy you beat me to again repeating the mod's request.

[teach]

Are you a human being ?

@ moderator : if one must post only facts, it should also be mandatory to remain well-mannered.
There are here a few ill-breeded fellows (grossiers personnages) who freely insult whoever does not agree with them. Very low, if you ask me.

It has been explained here time and again by several people exactly why banning all commercial flights there is an extremely bad idea, and how every expert in the field believes the same thing. It has been explained ad nauseum how banning them would more than likely have the opposite effect of what is intended, and HELP spread the disease. And yet some people continue to completely ignore that, and claim to quite simply know better than the experts.

I find having to read through that time and again to be insulting to my intelligence. This is nothing to do with 'agreeing' or 'disagreeing', it's everything to do with some continuing to spread ignorant scaremongering, and others being sick of that.

[jan_olieslagers]

Sorry! While I can appreciate your feelings, there has been an explicit request to post FACTS and nothing more.
Please stop whining - and be assured this is not meant at you only.

[cathay belgium]

Hi,

Am I human ? Yes,I guess and a realistic one I guess..
With the given and known death rate of Ebola, the known financial and medic support the 'western' countries are dealing with my sentence was rude but real...
We can't give all infected ones the medical help as needed, so deal with it in the real world.

Military and governments won't take the needed action to help theEbola countries and we got to live with the help that is given by NGO, Red Cross, etc....
Hereby I understand that the SN help is needed but ... only wanted from one point of view, we deal with the risks of being so... a temperature control and all the precautions on the plane when a vomitting persons with Ebola breaks out are just a laugh... IF its real Ebola offcourse... simple as that... this is the real world.
I and some other luchtzakkers noticed how they dealing with Ebola patients in Skopje... not good enough I may say so.. well it wasn't ebola okay but just IF...

I don't insult anyone with this just what it is,...

RAM and indeed Air France are still flying indeed but fir the same reason,not help but business and securing their future development, my guess...
Air Cote Ivoire,... they fly... they can hardly else no? are just stopping business..
But are these reasons for giving applause to them?

I will hereby put more help on the field! not civil but from countries military which can...
if they can invade countries for world peace maybe they can do the same here without weopons but with needles, pills etc...

Very human I think so, no ?

But anyone with another point of view of SN is blamed here, now I join the opposite corner I guess..

Lol

CXB

note : sorry Jan Olieslaghers, I need to stick with the Facts.. I will withdraw myself from the discussion :p
but we were responding at the same time...

[RoMax]

Air Cote Ivoire,... they fly... they can hardly else no? are just stopping business..

Freetown, Conakry and Monrovia are just 3 of their almost 20 destinations, it's not like they didn't do anything the past weeks and months when they didn't fly there. Their hub in Abidjan is still one of the most important cities in Western Africa and Ivory Coast has no Ebola. If they would want to continue playing it 'safe', yes they have a choice. But they realise that not flying doesn't reduce the risk of Ebola spreading that much, quite on the contrary it has many more other negative effects that on the longer term make it even more probably that Ebola will spread.

we deal with the risks of being so... a temperature control and all the precautions on the plane when a vomitting persons with Ebola breaks out are just a laugh... IF its real Ebola offcourse... simple as that... this is the real world.

Even if that person has Ebola, that doesn't mean he infected anyone else on board. No these checks will not prevent that some Ebola infected people leave West Africa, but don't think it will be much better without commercial aviation.

Governments/military supplying all the transport to/from these countries? Welcome to the real world, Ebola is not contagious enough to justify such a huge cost, money that can better be invested in things such as providing personnel and goods and funding them so they can do their job and put money in the development of medication and vaccins. For example our very own Belgian Janssen Pharmaceutica (in fact Johnson&Johnson, but most of their pharmaceutical divisions work under the Janssen brand) put more than 200 million Euro in the development of vaccins so far. And the Antwerp Institute of tropical medicine is leading a European group investigating threatments with blood of people that recovered. That's where the money has to be, not in providing transport that can be done by commercial operators at very little risk. And that's not my opinion (well ok, mine as well), but that of experts.

[teach]

Sorry! While I can appreciate your feelings, there has been an explicit request to post FACTS and nothing more.
Please stop whining - and be assured this is not meant at you only.

You only want FACTS?

It is a FACT that the experts all agree that closing the borders and banning flights is not a good idea.
It is a FACT that those same experts agree that closing the closely-monitored commercial flights down is very likely to increase the spread of ebola, not decrease it.

I'm sorry to be so blunt about this, but it gets on my proverbials when a discussion can not seem to move beyond simple acceptance of facts.

Here's how this should go: you think banning the flights is a great idea? Great, the experts disagree. Are you an expert? No? Then your opinion on this matter is irrelevant, and dismissed. And then we move on. As long as that doesn't happen, this discussion isn't going to go anywhere.

[convair]

Well put RoMax. I fully agree.
Regarding the lady who arrived today from Freetown on SN, her temperature was taken by 2 MSF doctors who happened to be on board and it was normal. Hence, chances are (and I certainly hope so) that she will test negative for Ebola. But the scaremongering brigade couldn't even wait for the result of the test and went full-throttle.
Very sad, specially from aviation fans!

[airazurxtror]

Regarding the lady who arrived today from Freetown on SN, her temperature was taken by 2 MSF doctors who happened to be on board and it was normal.

Of course.
According to the doctor in charge at Saint-Pierre, she had taken a fair amount of febrifuge (paracétamol) before boarding.
Which, incidentally, is evidence that, even then, she didn't feel well.

[airazurxtror]

Here's how this should go: you think banning the flights is a great idea? Great, the experts disagree. Are you an expert? No? Then your opinion on this matter is irrelevant, and dismissed.

Are you really so gullible ?
The "experts" are not infallible. They err and make mistakes like everybody else.
They can change opinion, they even can disagree between themselves. Some have a personal interest to protect. Most are afraid of not being "politically correct".
What they say is never to be taken as the Gospel - not by a long shot.

[Passenger]

The person that was put in quarantine this morning has no ebola.

Source : VRT (and other media):

NL: http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/buite ... =1.2137499
FR: http://www.lalibre.be/actu/belgique/cas ... 835f#edfde

[sn26567]

The person that was put in quarantine this morning has no ebola.

As widely expected, since she had no fever.

And this again proves the efficiency of the system put in place by the Belgian authorities, the airport and Brussels Airlines.

Hopefully OO-SFO (and the baggage from Sierra Leone) will also be released from quarantine...

[FlightMate]

I'm sorry SN26567, but what does it prove exactly?
That the system didn't detect someone who was not sick?

I'll be more reassured when the system effectively catches someone sick, before he/she starts vomiting or being contagious.

Odds are indeed slim that one without symptoms before boarding would develop the sickness in flight, but there are still chances.

And if true that this sick passenger took paracetamol because of fever before flying, without declaring it, then it's truly irresponsible.

[Passenger]

I'm sorry SN26567, but what does it prove exactly? That the system didn't detect someone who was not sick?

The system worked. It didn't have to detect if someone was sick or not: the script only prescripted how all people involved were supposed to act once ebola symptoms were noted. And they all did. Crew isolated the person onboard. Crew alerted Brussels Airport during the flight. Crew had to ask if there was, by any chance, medical assistance onboard. Fire brigade and two ambulances awaited the flight. Aircraft was taken into quarantine. Fully protected aid workers transferred the person to the dedicated hospital in Brussels. Doctors there were awaiting. Blood sample was sent to ITG Antwerp. Tested. No ebola. Aircraft released, luggage will be sent to the passengers.

And if true that this sick passenger took paracetamol because of fever before flying, without declaring it, then it's truly irresponsible.

Where is the proof - or even a statement - that this passenger had fever before boarding? The only thing we know, is that a doctor from Saint-Pierre apparently told the media that the person took paracetamol. My guess: probably ten times what we would take for a headache, hence the stomach problems.

Why did she took paracetamol? Those who haven't spoken to her can only guess. My guess: the bush tam tam. Rumours go around. Word spreads. All those planning to go abroad are told by other people to take paracetamol before checking in because that lowers fever for whatever illness or disease they have.

You may call that "truly irresponsible", but people in Sierra Leone are beyond western responsability now. They live in deadly fear since more then six months now - fear that ebola will kill them - so taking paracetamol whilst one is not sick is certainly understandable.

[cathay belgium]

Hi,

The system worked.

This event proved nothing.. it -only- proved that what they should have done by the precautions taken by now it worked out by a person who hadn't ebola... FACT.

For me, then, the system isn't good enough, if a highly trained nurse in the 'western' Spain with full Ebola safe garnment could been infected by her patient ( she made some mistakes offcourse ), I guess I may say that a sick person which starts to sweat in a plane, will cough and spread hereby little tiny drops of infected fluids in a small area like a planehull and with seating next to other pax.... and can make contact to several pax. before getting vomitting what would be the trigger to take this person in quarantaine won't make much effort / help..
( nothing a crew could do to help , just getting infected to, or do they carry and are they trained to set up a quaraintaine box in a plane, do they have massive loads of chloride onboard for decontamination of used attributes and handgloves instead its all as bad as in Spain ... )

BTW where the other pax of the plane in quarantaine during the NOT knowing of the results of the girl ?

If not, the system failed with glance... FACT.

You may call that "truly irresponsible", but people in Sierra Leone are beyond western responsability now. They live in deadly fear since more then six months now - fear that ebola will kill them - so taking paracetamol whilst one is not sick is certainly understandable.

If you take lots of paracetemol, trying to hide a fever from ebola-infected countries not knowing if you have ebola or not and then boarding a plane to other countries... I can understand their reactions but this seems for me a case of ' unvoluntary attempt to murder ' . Hard to say and again maybe not human but for I guess some of us.. a FACT to deal with ...

CXB