Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

[Flanker2]

A few comments on hln.be:

oktopatat
Slaap rustig verder alles is onder controle. Dat het virus in onze contreien uitbreekt, dat risico is volgens deze experten nagenoeg onbestaande en zie ...wie had dat nu gedacht plots is zo'n expert ondanks alle voorzorgsmaatregelen zelf besmet. Maar slaap rustig verder hoor alles is onder controle....blijf lekker heen en weer vliegen naar besmette gebieden, zolang het maar opbrengt en je kan de goegemeente wijsmaken dat er geen risico is ? Kassa kassa

Hendrikcxm
Ik weet in elk geval dat ik nooit meer van mijn leven in een vliegtuig van SN Brussel Airlines zal stappen.

Use Google translate if required.

Geert Sciott and his excuses:
http://time.com/3490961/brussels-airlines-ebola/

Despite conducting what he described as a public service, Sciot acknowledged the potential fallout from people who are concerned that flying to West Africa may help spread Ebola.

Part of that attention undoubtedly surrounded the death of Thomas Eric Duncan, the only person to die of Ebola on American soil. Duncan flew on Brussels Airlines from Liberia en route the United States before exhibiting symptoms of the disease.

Sciot said that compared to last year, about the same number of people fly on the route and revenue is comparable, though there is a wait list for cargo space.

“For our image, I don’t think we benefit from this at all,” he said. “We get a lot media requests linked to a disease.

[airazurxtror]

“For our image, I don’t think we benefit from this at all,” he said. “We get a lot media requests linked to a disease.”

You are right, Mr Sciot. Brussels Airlines benefits perhaps amongst the World Health Organisation people, but not amongst the Belgian population - who is after all its prime custom.
Of course, it's difficult for them to stop just now. I guess they are waiting for the first case imported in Belgium, and the outcry that will follow.

[b-west]

As stated here before, even if SN or RAM would stop flying to the affected areas, the virus would probably still find a way to spread. In stead of directly, it can go via a chain of people. It'll undoubtably go slower, but it will spread. There are also other factors to take into account. Borders in Africa aren't fenced, well guarded areas. At many points outside the guarded (and possibly closed) border checkpoints, the border demarcation can be non existent, with tribal people freely moving from one country to the next and back, possibly unknowingly spreading the Ebola virus. Stopping all flights may be a short term solution, it won't help in defeating or stopping the disease...

[Passenger]

Had he not flown Brussels Airlines, he would have flown another carrier. Had ne not flown via Brussels Airport, he would have flown via Dakar or Paris or Lagos or Addis Abbeba or Istanbul or Johannesburg or Casablanca or...

I think that you should be ashamed to pull out excuses, let alone ill-informed excuses. It's a true insult to the nurse who got infected. SN transported the virus on one of its A330's to BRU, from where it went to Dallas and now that nurse has it. I don't care about what could have, would have, should have happened.
This is what happened and this is all we need to know.

Plaatsvervangende schaamte krijg ik hiervan. This is another clear proof that you abuse this topic only to bash Brussels Airlines. We have a word for that in Dutch: it begins with lijken and ends on pikker.

Dozens of superb medical experts and ebola fighters, all non related to Brussels Airlines, insist for medical reasons that the ebola region remains online.

I agree with b-west: if not stopped in Africa, ebola will spread. Slower, but it will spread.

[Lysexpat]

The fact that a second nurse got infected in the Western world confirms my fear that there might be, yet unknown ways of transmitting the disease.
Commercial aviation employees are not trained for this and should not be exposed to it.
I am all for an organised airbridge to help out, but am against scheduled flights.
I have seen the panic on board during minor incidents, and can assure you that an ebola outbreak on board a full A330 would create a terrible mess! Imagine 250 people staying calmly on board an aircraft with a highly communicable disease for hours whilst denied deboarding upon arrival as per the SN plan?
If SN does this on humanitarian grounds, they could dedicate a single AA30 to it with trained medics and trained crew, medical goods an healthworkers only on the outbound flight. Severe health check upon arrival of the inbound flight.
I do wonder if SN crew declare having been to Monrovia when they arrive at JFK or IAD, by the way.

[SN1203]

I do wonder if SN crew declare having been to Monrovia when they arrive at JFK or IAD, by the way.

SN crews stay on board in the affected countries, nobody is exiting the aircraft. So there's nothing to declare... The crew stays in Senegal.

[Flanker2]

Mods, I see you deleted my post. I admit it was arrogant but the above post is even more arrogant as it lacks any form of coherence. What does crew staying in DKR have to do with health checks at the U.S. entry ports?
The questions at entry ports pertain not only to where they sleep but also where they have been and whom they came in contact with, and obviosuly SN crews come in contact with a lot of people from the affected regions.
They pick up their dirty trays, clean the dirty toilets, etc... Cockpit crews walk around the aircraft, exchange paperwork with local ground crews. That is also considered a "stay" by definition, you don't have to sleep for it to be a visit.


Concerning the idea of "Ebola terrorist":
With the high incidence of ISIS recruits in Belgium per capita, isn't the government at the slightest worried that ISIS might actually use BRU as a gateway to acquiring Ebola as a bio-weapon?
How many people can an ISIS militant infect directly posing as a burger chain chef in Belgium, before he is caught? 5.000? 10.000?
Spain and the U.S. both did not manage to contain the outbreak as nurses got infected on single cases. Good luck if we have thousands of cases in Belgium, it will be impossible to stop a full-scale outbreak.

No, our government is not worried obviously, because they are idiots.

http://www.debate.org/opinions/is-the-e ... ist-weapon

[Bralo20]

@Lysexpat

Ebola is transmitable due:

- Contact with infected bodily fluids (ALL bodily fluids, thus including sweat, tears,...)
- Contact with surfaces that have infected bodily fluids on them
- Inhalathion of microdroplets containing the virus (= not the same as being airborn so relax)

However it's only infectious when the first symptoms show (which is a sudden fever is most cases), before that (a period of 2 to 21 days) it's not infectious.

There are still mixed tests on the time which Ebola stays alive when it's outside a host, some tests have shown that it stays alive for merely a few hours though other tests have shown that even in dried state it can be infectious for days.

So what happened with the nurse? It will be hard to tell but i'm sure it will become clear eventually, most likely she came in contact with the virus due not following procedures or due a simple accident. It's quite possible that she was struck with a needle, scratched herself by running against something wich contained the virus (a sharp side of the bed maybe as example)... There are just so maybe possibilities in which she could have got infected. Most of the time they are just wearing Tyvek suites to protect them which are more then suficient in 99,9% but unlike a HAZMAt suit, a Tyvek suit can easily be damaged when it comes in contact with a sharp object (Tyvek is hard to tear but easy to cut).

So IMHO there isn't any reason to panic. It's probably an unfortunate mishap and next time they'll take better precausions to prevent such things from happenening.

[Bralo20]

Concerning the idea of "Ebola terrorist":
With the high incidence of ISIS recruits in Belgium per capita, isn't the government at the slightest worried that ISIS might actually use BRU as a gateway to acquiring Ebola as a bio-weapon?
How many people can an ISIS militant infect directly posing as a burger chain chef in Belgium, before he is caught? 5.000? 10.000?
Spain and the U.S. both did not manage to contain the outbreak as nurses got infected on single cases. Good luck if we have thousands of cases in Belgium, it will be impossible to stop a full-scale outbreak.

No, our government is not worried obviously, because they are idiots.

http://www.debate.org/opinions/is-the-e ... ist-weapon

Here you have (for once) a valid point. Ebola can unfortunately easily be used as a deadly bioweapon and IMHO that's a valid reason for concern. But what will it help when SN stops flying to the area? Nothing, absolutely nothing... IS or any other idiot can easily infect himself, travel like he or she wishes to his destination (it doesn't matter if it takes one or 5 stops to reach the destination) without being sick and then infect numerous people. And it only takes one single person... If they want to spread it on a massive scale all one needs to do is get some infected blood and store it in a refrigirator and spread it through other idiots.

But again, SN stopping with flying wouldn't mean that Belgium or any other country is safe...

And honestly? I do think that Belgium is taking it very very serious... It's not because you don't read about it in the newspapers or see nothing on TV that nothing is being done.

One hint that you should have seen since you tend to know everything: Do you really think it's a coincidence that the supposedly "out-of-stock" ZMAPP vacin was available in Belgium?

[Homo Aeroportus]

Just face it, there is nothing you can do to eradicate a virus.
In the case of Ebola, the reservoir seems to be bats that live with the virus without being affected themselves. So the virus is there to stay. All you can do is to contain it at the reservoir level by stopping its dissemination to and through humans. Like previous Ebola (Zaire) or Marburg outbreaks.

To achieve this you must reduce the number of secondary cases that each infected person transmits. This is similar to a nuclear chain reaction where you restrict the number of neutrons emitted at each fission of a U235 atom, or you go boom.

Without containment of the infection, one person can theoretically infect say 10 secondaries, giving in turn 100 others, then 1 000, 10 000, 100 000, 1 000 000, …
In practice the patient is so quickly affected that his ability to transmit the disease is limited to his immediate vicinity viz. family and direct relatives. Isolation as soon as the patient has been diagnosed positive, and this not only for him but for all potentially infected by himself, is therefore the only solution.

To achieve this, you need lots of trained health care personnel and tons of equipment viz. PPE, disinfectant, isolation wards and so on. This is why air transport is crucial to contain this outbreak.
WPF, with its United Nations Humanitarian Air Service, has a massive operation in place already for months that involves flights e.g. from DKR and ACC to CKY, FNA and ROB with further inland rotations by aircraft and helicopters.

Check http://www.logcluster.org/map/unhas-rou ... -6-october

Good also that some like SN and RAM maintain their flights to the area.
Good also that it seems possible to book flights to CKY again with AF as from Oct 17.
Good also that Gambia Bird has decided to start flights between Gatwick and Freetown as from next Friday.

Let’s hope that people start getting adult about this and stop putting their heads in the sand.
Let’s stop spreading emotional reactions. Besides some being driven by the childish SN bashing (or FR for that matter) which only shows their limitations, it is plain irresponsible to fuel such irrational fears. Fear of the unknown.
If you are not an experienced driver, don’t say that if you lose control on a slippery road the only solution is to hit the brakes.

I do take this seriously and I do fly to AFI quite often, but let's keep all this rational please.

H.A.

[Flanker2]

IS or any other idiot can easily infect himself, travel like he or she wishes to his destination (it doesn't matter if it takes one or 5 stops to reach the destination) without being sick and then infect numerous people. And it only takes one single person... If they want to spread it on a massive scale all one needs to do is get some infected blood and store it in a refrigirator and spread it through other idiots.

Let's do the comparison:
1. No SN or RAM flights.
-Extensive ground travel through scarce and bad African roads.
-Closed boarders, meaning any attempt to cross must be done on foot through the jungle, extending travel time even more.
-Requires reaching an airport from where he can travel to a European port of entry
-Requires major organisation, extended preparation, increases travel times and the risk of becoming symptomatic at any point in the itinerary or if carrying in a container, that the virus dies off.

2. SN or RAM flights. If travelling from Belgium, non-stop into the affected area.
-Buys a ticket. Flies out today, comes back after 3 days.
Doesn't even need to infect himself, can bring back infected body fluids in a container in checked luggage.
-Requires no organisation.

Unfortunately our government are more concerned about the public's state of mind than their health.

[sean1982]

Let it come to Belgium and spread a little bit, and we'll see if Passenger, Inquirer and Romax can still take it so lightly. Mistakes occurred in the U.S. and in Spain on just a handful of cases and Ebola is on its way to Belgium if it's not already here. We'll talk again then.

I don't speak for others, but I have listened to what prof. Van Ranst told us on VRT: for sure, with all those thousands of West Africans travelling to Western Europe, we will have an ebola case in Belgium, perhaps more. But we won't have an outbreak - let alone an endemie.

Passenger, your medical guru is now saying we urgently need screening at belgian airports for possible ebola cases. Strange how he changed his mind so quickly no??
http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/1901/reisnieuw ... ntem.dhtml

[airazurxtror]

indeed :

Intussen gaan er steeds meer stemmen op die strengere controles op het ebolavirus eisen, om mogelijke besmettingen in ons land te vermijden. Onder meer viroloog Marc Van Ranst van de KULeuven vindt dat er op Zaventem en andere Belgische luchthavens nauwere controles moeten komen. Dat meldt het VRT Nieuws vanochtend. Hij stelt voor om alle passagiers van vluchten uit Ebola-gebieden met de thermometer te controleren, zoals dat ook in de Verenigde Staten gebeurt. "Dat is maar een kleine moeite, het gaat om maar zes vluchten per week. De temperatuur wordt natuurlijk bij vertrek al gecontroleerd, maar het kan geen kwaad om dat een uur of acht later nog eens te doen."
http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/1901/reisnieuw ... ntem.dhtml

[Homo Aeroportus]

I just wonder what would have been the temperature of Thomas Duncan on arrival at BRU?
This was September 20, five days before he felt unwell and the hospital released him as they did not find Ebola symptoms, although he had then informed them.

OK to reassure the public and avoid developing a phobia, but about as efficient as confiscating a bottle of water from a mom with baby at security as if it were a bomb then throwing it in a bin as if it were ... a bottle of water.

H.A.

[airazurxtror]

Les ministres européens de la Santé ont été invités à participer jeudi à Bruxelles à une "réunion technique" sur un éventuel renforcement des contrôles des voyageurs en provenance des pays africains touchés par Ebola, a indiqué lundi la présidence italienne.

The European health ministers have been invited to participate Thursday in Brussels to a "technical meeting" on a possible strengthening of checks on travelers from African countries affected by Ebola, said monday the Italian Presidency.

[sn-remember]

I think analysing the Duncan case is interesting bcs more such cases might come ..
I think Duncan did the right thing, he presented to a clinic when 1st symptoms appeared and raised the possibilit of EVD infection. So the fault was clearly here with the clinic that sent him home with an antibiotic prescription it seems.
But are we sure any pratitioner in B or elswhere is prepared to take adequate measures in such a scenario ? And in winter time when flu and other viral infections are omnipresent ?
What is in place ?
I think those pax arriving in Belgium from those countries should be given a special call dial nr, and specific clinics to contact when getting ill inside the contagion window (let's say 1 month). Alongside with the prophylaxis rules to follow and a quck medical exam.
A contamination detection kit that would test effectively from the very start of the infection (asymptomatic
phase) would be so welcome !! I presume some labs are currently working on that ... ?
Also, while SN operate the route, the stop at DKR should IMO be just "techico-operational" meaning for crew renewal purpose only (no pax loaded at dkr on the rt leg). Surely the dkr related pax don't expect to be mixed in the same cabin with the pax outbound from rob/fna/cky ?
I think that stopping the scheduled flights or prescribing the way they operate should be the result of a global policy .. Who can rule that ?
Just my thoughts hic et nunc ..

[Flanker2]

For me, temperature tests at BRU are stupid measures as they do not exclude all risks.
If the guy becomes symptomatic 1 minute after leaving the airport, it has no meaning.

It does however compensate for the lack of any tests all the way BRU, with the exception of the unreliable and useless tests in Africa.

But it's not enough. Just top the goddamned flights, eventually compensate SN's loss of revenue with justified subsidies (national health security) and organise government relief flights.

[Bralo20]

It does however compensate for the lack of any tests all the way BRU, with the exception of the unreliable and useless tests in Africa.

BRU might have thermal imaging camera's who are able to spot persons with a elevated temperature level? This technology is in use for quite some time now (mostly by fire departments around the world) and it's quite accurate within 0.1 to 0.2 degrees centigrade...

I don't know if BRU has those but this might be the reason why they don't check individually.

[airazurxtror]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/o ... ambia-bird

Extracts :

Ebola: UK cancels resumption of direct flights to Sierra Leone

The first direct flights to resume from the UK to Sierra Leone have been cancelled after the British government revoked Gambia Bird’s recently granted permit because of fears over Ebola.
The Department of Transport cited the deteriorating public health situation for the revocation when it notified the German-owned airline on Friday evening.
The airline said it would appeal against the decision, especially as its licence was only granted on 26 September.

Gambia Bird, along with British Airways and Air France, stopped services to and from Sierra Leone in August but the German-owned airline announced it was resuming flights because of the damage being caused by the lack of access.
Only one European airline, Brussels Airlines, has maintained its operations, allowing travel for doctors, nurses and other workers.

A spokesman for the Department of Transport said the inconvenience to passengers was unfortunate but its priority was tackling the spread of Ebola and protecting the British public from the disease.

The new Belgian minister in charge of "Mobility" (sic) is Mrs Jacqueline Galant (MR). Let's hope she has the same priority ...

[Flanker2]

I feel that governments and organisation leaders are so nervous that they are acting irrationally.

They don't seem nervous about Ebola itself but the public reaction, because they travel everyday on their limousines from their shiny offices to their comfy homes. The public who comes in contact with a lot of people everyday, obviously think very differently about it, as they see every contact as a potential threat.

Our leaders are not in contact with the reality of the field, as evidenced by Obama's half-measure of testing people at points of entry.

Writing in the Washington Post, Dr Dausey argues: 'The human errors in this single case highlight why it is urgent that we ban all commercial flights from the impacted countries to all non-affected countries until the outbreak is contained.'
Dr Dausey, the dean of the School of Health Professions and Public Health at Mercyhurst University in Erie, Pennsylvania, is one of the first experts to publicly call for the US to close its borders to West Africa.
US officials have refused to close US borders to travelers from Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea - the three countries where Ebola continues to spread like wildfire.
On Friday, Centers for Disease Control director Thomas Frieden said closing to borders to West Africans would only make the Ebola outbreak worse by cutting off the supply of aide and strangling the local economies.
No U.S. airlines fly to Liberia, Sierra Leone or Guinea, but Brussels Airlines and other European carriers are still offering service from the West African capitals.
Duncan flew from Monrovia, Liberia, to Brussels then boarded to United Airlines flight to Washington Dulles International Airport, where he was allowed to enter the country. He then flew to Dallas and days later began experiencing symptoms of Ebola. He is now in critical condition at a Dallas hospital.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... erica.html