Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

[CTBke]

we'll just wait and see what they will acquire ..

[Pocahontas]

They keep postponing the announcement of the fleet renewal. Pretty annoying! I think with FR coming to BRU they are changing their strategy. Just a thought...

[CTBke]

because they urgently a solution for the RJ fleet ...

[Pocahontas]

How long are they already looking for a solution? It is getting really funny at times. Maybe we can lease former Swiss Avro's in the future, when they will have their nice Cseries

[CTBke]

they're already looking for a solution since a long time ago ... maybe they'll extend the partnership with flybe ...

[Pocahontas]

inside info CTB?

[Flanker2]

SN should go for the A320 or Cseries.

You know why?
Because these are beautiful aircraft and people love to fly on beautiful aircraft. The A320 is now becoming cheaper and cheaper to lease as more and more airlines line up for the A320NEO.
Another reason is their beautiful cockpit environments. That should make SN's pilots happier and make them go less often on strikes. Cabin crew also have their own high-tech panel, which should also make them happier to fly these aircraft, avoiding strikes.

On the other hand, aircraft like the Q400 are still expensive to lease, despite their lower fuel burn.
SN apparently has such a good deal in place with Flybe that it's practically cheaper to pay them the wetlease than to operate their own dry leased aircraft. Or maybe it's just a matter of convenience, it's not worth investing millions into training and spares stores when they can just pay Flybe a flat rate. It saves on accounting. Either way, I'm sure that they know what they're doing.

May I also add that the Q400 is not convenient at all? The fwd baggage area is unusable, the aft one is too small to carry big pieces of luggage for 70 Africa transit pax.SN is realising that the Q400 isn't made for them, which is great. They should get rid of them and go all Airbus or a mix of Cseries and A320.

What I love most is how the engine exhaust of the CS100 blows onto the brushes of the gear doors....
Such a beautiful aircraft.

[Pocahontas]

yawn.

[cathay belgium]

Medic!

[CTBke]

No inside info at all... Its just wait and see..

SN needs a smaller type of aircraft for destinations as BMA, TLS, LYS, ARN,... as they are not able to fill an A 319 on those routes and BMA is not able to receive an A319... About the c-series... Keep on dreaming... Too expensive and too new... Maybe they should get some old CRJ's from Lufthansa or some ATR's or something else which is on the market to replace the RJ's... Some E-jets from Flybe would be ideal but we'll see when they make an announcement about the replacement...

[Flanker2]

No, no, CX, I haven't gone mad.
I've grown tired of supporting change at SN only to find myself answering senseless arguments.
Maybe this way I'll understand what SN's management is trying to do, if there is something to understand.

If SN gets a fleet replacement approved by LH and if said fleet replacement is A320's, why not?
After all, even though those RJ100's are cheap to lease, they are expensive to maintain compared to the Airbus, so that should close the gap in costs.
Fuel burn isn't much different, so an A319 has 50 more seats at almost the same trip cost.

Why did they hold on to the RJ100's for so long then?
I suspect lease contracts. 12 years + 5 years extension = 17 years. Which means that DWA will see its lease expire as soon as April 2014. DWB in October 2014. DWC in February 2015.
That sounds about right, unless they extended for 6 years, in which case the replacement starts in 2015 and gains momentum in 2016.
However, there are no CSeries delivery slots available until at least 2017, while BBD ramps up its production.
So SN would have to either go with A320's or extend their RJ100 leases for another 2 years while waiting for CS100's. In the latter case, it could also make sense to consider the CS300 to replace the A319/A320 in SN's fleet.

Interesting video showing the installation of bare cockpit sections on the mobile jigs, laying of CFRP on the aft bulkhead:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gackf5SP5Vg

[Flanker2]

While we're at it, we might as well discuss the E2's.
-The E175-E2 will be a light-weight 88-seater with the latest in GTF technology. It will burn 30% less fuel at cruise compared to the larger variants.
-The E190-E2 will be a heavy 105-seater. Compared to the E195-E2, it will be marginally lighter, marginally cheaper to buy and will burn marginally less fuel. It will be comparable to the CS100 albeit it will trade in a row of passengers for a lower empty weight. It will definitely beat the CS100, but an operator would be better off going straight for the E195.
-The E195-E2 is a 130 seater which will be lighter and offer marginally lower fuel burn compared to the CS300, while cheaper to purchase.

Compared to the Cseries, the E2 has everything in its favor, except timing. Even that could be interesting, as Embraer will be able to ramp-up the E-jets production rate much faster than the all-new Cseries as they already have an established process and experienced workforce.
For new customers, timing won't make much difference, as BBD will be busy fulfilling its current backlog until almost the E2's EIS, while the E2 doesn't yet have such a huge backlog.

In SN's case, the E175-E2 would be a great replacement for the Avro, while the E195-E2 would be a great replacement for the A319/A320.

The MRJ's program c*ck-up has made MAC loose the entire advantage they had over Embraer and has Skywest hesitating. http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... nt-392652/
Skywest would be better off going all-Embraer as the timing of the delivery for them is now the same, but it would give them commonality and reduce their purchase cost on the E2 options.
They will also be able to block-off years of E2 production, enabling them to secure the market against their competitors, even if it opens up the MRJ line, which will struggle to ramp-up the production and face teething problems as a brand new design.

IMO, the MRJ program, which is a great aircraft design concept in terms of airframe efficiency, will struggle to become a success: they have virtually no chance to enter the Chinese market, they are making bad decisions such as their decision to outsource engineering support, they have lost the first-mover advantage and will face teething problems which will be an issue as it will undeniably be compared to the more mature E2 that will EIS at almost the same time.
The market is also moving up from the seat-count they are offering on the MR70, which is reflected on their order sheet. Japan's high employment cost will make it impossible for them to match Embraer's discount rates, even if list prices are similar. The MRJency name choice was bad.

If you have an airline and are looking for a RJ in the 90-seat segment to use for the next 15-20 years, a mix of E175-E2 and E195-E2 seems to be the best choice available on the market today.
The E175-E2 will offer operating economics very similar to turboprops such as the Q400, as it will burn around 1300kg in cruise, while cruising much faster.

To bridge the gap until the E2, Embraer is believed to be giving out generous discounts for non-E2 orders, which resulted in a big order by AA last month. BTW, this order was a big blow into Mitsubishi's face, as AA's vice president for AA regional is of Japanese descent and he personally vouched for the Ejets.

[RoMax]

They keep postponing the announcement of the fleet renewal.

Did they ever said when they would announce the fleet renewal? The only thing I saw from it was the CFO of Lufthansa that said SN would present a tentative (so nothing firm) fleet replacement plan to Lufthansa in the third quater of 2013. This is something internal, not some kind of public announcement. In the assumption SN indeed presented their fleet replacement preference, LH still has to re-investigate the whole matter and lots of other steps will have to be made before there is something SN can publicly announce.

About the c-series... Keep on dreaming... Too expensive and too new... Maybe they should get some old CRJ's from Lufthansa or some ATR's or something else which is on the market to replace the RJ's... Some E-jets from Flybe would be ideal but we'll see when they make an announcement about the replacement...

I'm sorry but it's about time SN is looking at a long term strategic fleet replacement and not the kind of messing around as they have been doing for over 12 years now. As the retirement of the RJ100 is comming scary close, a temporary solution such as current generation E-jets or CRJ's could bring in temporary relief, but SN and LH have to decide on a firm and long term fleet replacement NOW and not in 2016 of 2017 or something like that. If that will be the CSeries or the E2 of Embraer or something else, that's such a specialised matter, that's basicly impossible to discuss without detailed data from SN's network and the manufacturers, that's not something we are going to find on the website of these companies or in the basic inside information most SN staff is able to acces.
Of course a new high-end aircraft type is going to be expensive, but you can't continue running behind the facts. SN operates in a highly competitive market closely surrounded by the European giants, including Ryanair. If SN (or LH) believes SN is not able to cope with the high costs of introducing and operating new next generation aircraft by 2017-2019, they can better stop flying right now.

[convair]

Meanwhile, OO-DJP was feried very early this morning to Shannon for repaint in Ellin Air colors; (source: Skyliner, but flight can be seen on FR24 as SN9901).
According to Airfleets, Ellin Air (Greece) already operates ex-SN OO-DJZ.

End of an era!

[bruteboeing]

Meanwhile, OO-DJP was feried very early this morning to Shannon for repaint in Ellin Air colors; (source: Skyliner, but flight can be seen on FR24 as SN9901).
According to Airfleets, Ellin Air (Greece) already operates ex-SN OO-DJZ.

End of an era!

wrong information i'm afraid. OO-DJP will stay in the fleet for a while longer

rgds

[CTBke]

OO-DJP is no longer used as back up plane but as a regular one ..

[SN1203]

OO-DJP is no longer used as back up plane but as a regular one ..

Says who? A back-up plane is rotating together with the other planes based on the requirements of the day (planned maintenance on other aircraft, ...).

It's not because it's a back-up plane it should only be used on rare/special occasions. I don't think you'll find Avro 85 flights in 2 or 4 months, which shows it's not structurally planned.

[convair]

Meanwhile, OO-DJP was feried very early this morning to Shannon for repaint in Ellin Air colors; (source: Skyliner, but flight can be seen on FR24 as SN9901).
According to Airfleets, Ellin Air (Greece) already operates ex-SN OO-DJZ.

End of an era!

wrong information i'm afraid. OO-DJP will stay in the fleet for a while longer

rgds

I assume you have better sources bruteboeing.
But do you know for what purpose it was ferried there? The plane stayed there the whole day, so it was not for a charter flight. SNN seems to be a regular "paintshop" destination; would SN want to repaint it at this stage?

[tolipanebas]

FWIW, all RJs will be gone by April 2016.
For its successor, I refer to the posts I made before.

[CTBke]

and where did you get this info?