Brussels Airlines' third US destination

[RoMax]

don't forget we live in the age of video conference.

You can do video conferences, but you don't develop pharmaceutical products when one team is in Boston and the other one in Belgium (at least not in the full development period, there are several points when you have to meet in person). They do fly to BOS, that's not the point, they just don't use BRU for it (at least, not non-stop, they use BRU to reach LHR or FRA for example).

[cnc]

i just mean video conferences reduces the amount of travelling

[Vinnie-Winnie]

I don't think that SN will ever listen to me (they haven't until now)

For good reasons

but DEN or IAH would seem viable and can be done with a daily schedule, without requiring more than 1 aircraft.

- AF can't make DEN work. How would SN do it? Better leave the DEN market to LH, BA & Icelandair.
- IAH maybe but how do you fill the back of the plane? Connecting Pax to latin America? Not very likely if you ask me

BOS is already saturated and it's not like New York where you can always find a taker for a cheap ticket. Boston Scientific in Diegem will be very happy, I guess, but they will not enthusiastic enough to fill the aircraft everyday, if they at all fill any seats at all.

How can and unserved market be saturated? Lot's of business & potential tourism from the northeast to/from Belgium

JFK is at 80% LF, but at very low yields.
I wasn't too happy about JFK, but I wasn't too concerned either, because you still have a low yield O&D and connecting demand to fill the seats. Whether SN makes any money is doubtful but who knows, if they can find a niche with their feeding. They won't make much money, that's for sure.

Says whome about the yields?

But forget DEN why not Hong Kong? A lot of Belgian companies do business in/with Hong Kong, air cargo from Hong Kong is already a great asset and there is a major connection between Hong Kong and Africa, with regards to Africa-bound merchandise.

Cargo can transit via the gulf more cheaply you know? China/Hong-Kong is served by Hainan today and pretty well

[b720]

I think that an evening JFK, and a service to MIA make most sense for the US.
JFK Eve. flight along with the morning SN and the UA to EWR will provide an excellent coverage of the NYC
area..
MIA is excellent for further connections to the carrib. area, Central America, Andino Market, and Mexico.
tourism, business, O&D traffic.. MIA should work.
They must offer LUX too.. essential market feeding C pax. Many of whom are loyal Miles and More clients anyway.

[cnc]

I think that an evening JFK

agreed

and a service to MIA make most sense for the US.
JFK Eve. flight along with the morning SN and the UA to EWR will provide an excellent coverage of the NYC
area..
MIA is excellent for further connections to the carrib. area, Central America, Andino Market, and Mexico.
tourism, business, O&D traffic.. MIA should work.

connect on AA you mean? besides the very low yield MIA is mostly season bound and would never work for SN, JAF perhaps but i remember the past so i doubt it

[
- AF can't make DEN work. How would SN do it? Better leave the DEN market to LH, BA & Icelandair.

aside from the LCC's DEN is a UA fortress, AF has no partners there

[ezis]

I don't think that SN will ever listen to me (they haven't until now)

For good reasons

Now, I know Flanker(2) isn't the most popular member of this forum, but I do think DEN makes sense. You can feed into UA. Just as well for IAH.
For MIA I hear a lot about low yields, and who could help you with connections if needed? Avianca?
Your partner is in FLL, perhaps that makes more sense, as it serves a similar market as well.

On a side note, I think we can put JFK evening aside, as they talk about a third destination

It certainly is time to rejuvinate and expand the fleet, and think over a longer period of time

[b720]

I was thinking more AVIANCA/TACA and COPA both have a very strong presence at MIA. and why not
working with AA? Many airlines work very closely with airlines from different alliances.

[sn-remember]

Ok I'll give also my 2 cts
1. Imo, they should continue developing the afi market in parallel with the nA market.
2. Concerning nA:
jfk eve flight possible. Alternative : ewr eve flight.
bos morning flight possible
I would go for both nyc and bos + afi development (2 more dailies to afi also in the short future)
I would appoint Hogan (James) as ceo
He would look for a 4 a/C increase each year, placing sn back in the playfield.
Same for tk ceo, what's his name ? He nearly lost his job for a lipstick issue last fortnight, should be offered the job at sn's helm.
That was my 2 cts

[cnc]

I was thinking more AVIANCA/TACA and COPA both have a very strong presence at MIA. and why not
working with AA? Many airlines work very closely with airlines from different alliances.

those are non US airlines so its very likely this would not be allowed.
and about AA, atlantic++ wouldn't allow this and even if they do it outside the JV SN wouldn't bring anything of value to AA

[RoMax]

I was thinking more AVIANCA/TACA and COPA both have a very strong presence at MIA. and why not
working with AA? Many airlines work very closely with airlines from different alliances.

those are non US airlines so its very likely this would not be allowed.
and about AA, atlantic++ wouldn't allow this and even if they do it outside the JV SN wouldn't bring anything of value to AA

Indeed, why working with AA when you are in an antitrust immunity joint-venture with about the biggest competitor. That's not like SN codesharing Tarom (Skyteam) to give an extreme example.

If SN's goal is to tap into the Latin-American market, it's IAH where they have to fly. That destination has some OD traffic (higher yield OD traffic than MIA) and it's a huge, huge UA hub.

i just mean video conferences reduces the amount of travelling

Yes that's true of course. But when looking back at Sabena's period. Much more video conferences now, but the market grew even more. So there's a bigger market, but also more competition. So BOS is not the "easy" destination, but the market is there, SN only has to make sure they get the right contracts with the right companies. Tourists and VFR will follow automaticly if the prices are right to fill the rest of the plane.

[convair]

So, in view of the developments being discussed under the other hot topic "JetAirways out of Brussels", it should be an evening flight to EWR then.
Anyway, as it was the case with IAD, we won't know before early next year. LH/SN should take that decision as late as possible, so as to be able to take into account the competition's latest moves.

[crew1990]

How are going the reservation for JFK and IAH.

Does it still exellent for JFK? And how is going IAH campared to JFK last year at the same period?

[RoMax]

How are going the reservation for JFK and IAH.

Does it still exellent for JFK? And how is going IAH campared to JFK last year at the same period?

IAD
I don't know about IAD, I only know SN recently confirmed that JFK is still operating with a high loadfactor. But of course the yields are the things that matter and I don't have a clue about that (that's real intern information).

Edit: At least SN is loved by the animal friends (unless they have a flat nose, as SN doesn't allow that anymore): http://thejetsetpets.com/pet-friendly-b ... -from-u-s/

[sn26567]

Just for information: "sister" company Austrian Airlines is eyeing also new long-haul routes, especially in the US. Its boss Karsten Benz said in Chicago, where he was inaugurating the new Austrian destination “By autumn we will decide which new destinations to add next. We have Boston, San Francisco, New York Newark on the radar.”

[Air Key West]

If SN's goal is to tap into the Latin-American market, it's IAH where they have to fly

Honestly, any traveler flying to Latin America will avoid a connection in the US because it's too cumbersome (going through immigration in the US etc...). You'll want to connect in Europe if you have no direct flight.
One reason why I put forward the idea (crazy idea for some members) of flying to Panama is that it's much easier to connect in Panama (if rules have not changed recently) to Star Alliance member Copa which is a reliable and very strong airline in Central America). But I'm getting off topic, sorry.

Personally, I think it's a mistake to develop much further flights to the US. They are low yield (because of the strong competition). Expanding b.air's intercontinental network by adding another destination in the East of North America is the easy way : one aircraft can do the rotation in 24 hours. Flying to SFO or destinations in other parts of the world outside East/Centrel/Westrn Africa is a different challenge.

[Inquirer]

Just for information: "sister" company Austrian Airlines is eyeing also new long-haul routes, especially in the US. Its boss Karsten Benz said in Chicago, where he was inaugurating the new Austrian destination “By autumn we will decide which new destinations to add next. We have Boston, San Francisco, New York Newark on the radar.”

Not surprisingly to me, these are exactly the same 3 destinations we know Brussels is talking about.

It just shows what I have been saying for quite some time now: strategic decisions about expansion get co-ordinated on a higher level and whatever is decided, needs to fit not just the local strategy, but the bigger picture.

My guess is there's a shortlist of new transatlantic routes within the Lufthansa group and they are simply looking at which airline is best suited to serve each of those? In other words: forget about any US destinations sister companies can offer more connections to, let alone compete with them internally (unless demand justifies multiple offerings of course).

[Drifter01]

I think Boston will be tough. I fly at least twice a month to Boston on BA and I am not sure whether a direct flight to Brussels would convince me to change. For a business traveller BA offers a lot more flexibility. I believe they have 4 daily flights to LHR (mix of 777/747) departing from Boston starting early morning through late at night. The advantage is that you can leave BRU after almost a full working day and return from BOS after a full working day as well... Connections to BRU at T5 are pretty good as well as are the business class fares. Anyway, Brussels Airlines has a great product so i might try it if the departure/arrival times work out...

[RoMax]

Anyway, Brussels Airlines has a great product so i might try it if the departure/arrival times work out...

That's why timing/shedule is the key element in the success or failure of BRU-BOS. I believe an evening flight to BOS (like the IAD flight) is the best choice to attract business passengers. But I'm sure SN is talking with numerous companies and frequent flyers about their prefered shedule.

[convair]

Just for information: "sister" company Austrian Airlines is eyeing also new long-haul routes, especially in the US. Its boss Karsten Benz said in Chicago, where he was inaugurating the new Austrian destination “By autumn we will decide which new destinations to add next. We have Boston, San Francisco, New York Newark on the radar.”

Yes indeed. And also Swiss flies to JFK, IAD, ORD, SFO, LAX, YUL and maybe other NA cities.

The final decision for OS and SN will, of course, be made in conjunction with LH. BRU is geographically better located than VIE; however, VIE has traditionally been a favorite connexion point for passegers from Eastern Europe. BRU was said by an LH executive ( the CFO I think) to have great potential for development to NA.

Personally, I think it's a mistake to develop much further flights to the US.

I disagree with that. In the past Sabena made a big mistake by concentrating on AFI and couldn't get rights to a second US city besides NYC, hence they missed a lot of opportunities. They should continue to develop AFI but that is a fragile market and the NA connexions are a good way to consolidate it.

[cnc]

? newyork wasn't the only US city sabena served