700 jobs threatened at Brussels Airlines?

[RoMax]

An association with fi Etihad would make much more sense with a brighter future towards the growing east. Imagine; Etihad Europe as a SERIOUS partnership.

Why would Etihad (besides the current codeshare they have with SN) want a huge partnership with SN. They already have Air France, Air Berlin and KLM. That seems enough.
Emirates is not going to do something like that either (they have their own good connections to Europe and easyJet).
Qatar Airways is Oneworld, end of story as well.

[BrusselsAirlines]

Any eastern and certainly middle eastern company has realised by now that they will not be allowed to just fly into Europe and fetch all the long haul pax without bilateral agreements. They will need foothold in Europe as to secure their future as Europe is their nr1 market.

Apart from securing Brussels as a possible 'open' hub, LH, together with the other majors are lobbying hard to get the middle eastern cpy's out asap.

As an SN shareholder I would know by now where to go negotiate to get the best price for my shares...

[BrusselsAirlines]

That's the major disadvantage mid eastern companies have. If the EU puts a halt on their slots, what are we gonna lose as EU airlines, nobody needs to fly to the desert anyway. Major hubs with economical or political importance are Hong Kong, Signapore etc.

And that is why you need bilateral agreements. Middle Eastern companies will have to buy themselves in in EU airlines as to secure their future. Code shares alone or minirity stakes will probably not be enough to convince the EU commission in the (near) future?

[RoMax]

Yes I follow you're point of view, but any partnership with a Middle eastern carrier will have to go through LH. LH has a unique option on the remaining shares of SN, until 2014 I believe.
As since 2009 these kind of strategic decisions are taken in Germany, outside the power of SN. LH seems under way with Turkish, if that's the way LH wants to go, SN will be fit into that story.
Otherwise, SN doesn't have the power anymore to do something else as long as that's not LH's will.

[BrusselsAirlines]

And that's why Germans are called smart in business. And tactics?

[BrusselsAirlines]

On the upside I think we will not see SN go into bankrupt any time soon as this would rather open options than close...don't think this suits LH's strategy.

A thing the unions could have realised during negotiations?

[airazurxtror]

A good summing-up (in french) :
http://www.lalibre.be/economie/actualit ... n-vie.html

[convair]

This is excellent news for everyone involved and for the belgian economy. All parties should be praised for this result.

[brusselsairlinesfan]

Excellent news! All the best to brussels airlines & staff!

[Atlantis]

What I found interesting is that someone from the unions said that not only the personnel will deliver an effort, also the government (that 30 million for the whole Belgian airline industry), Lufthansa (the loan of 100 million probably) but also Brussels Airport. How is that, will BRU give SN more advantages as home carrier? In that case I would say FINALLY, look at AMS, FRA, CDG, LHR, MAD, VIE, ZRH,... (I can go on), they all give their biggest home carrier much more advantages than BRU does to SN. (and please don't come up with RYR/CRL again, that's no longer 'giving advantages', that's letting them operate at the airport almost for nothing, and hope that you can earn your money with the non-aeronautical revenue)

I can be wrong in this but about Brussels Airport. Is it not that they are also one of the shareholders, at least a very small one? I don't know for sure.
But besides that, it is a win-win for Brussels Airport. To give some reduction and keep this airlines flying, and via this they still have their income. Otherwise it's a disaster. Losing your home carrier and what then with all those airlines who rely on SN to travel their pax through Europe. For sure, they will not come then anymore (after some time).

I can add sth to my own post.

Brussels Airport will give Brussels Airport a volume reduction. In return, Brussels Airport ask them more traffic to bring to BRU.
Like I said, indeed a win-win situation for BRU.

But more important: finally Brussels Airlines discovered that with compensations they "can" survive. All other companies has to do the same. So good that you now also think on that way.
Good luck for the future and may your dreams come true.

[tolipanebas]

Brussels Airport will give Brussels Airport a volume reduction. In return, Brussels Airport ask them more traffic to bring to BRU.

Good decision from the airport and glad to see that they finally understood they have more to gain from supporting the home carrier than trying to attract ever more (low cost) airlines which compete with it.

Running an airport is a business that must try to maximise revenues, but especially for an airport like BRU, revenues come from more than just the direct user fees passengers pay, so they mustn't be too obsessed with just maximizing their pax numbers, but look at the bigger picture.

In this context, it is important to understand not all passengers are of the same value to that business, even IF they pay the same fees; those African bound passengers SN are hauling in from allover Europe and the USA are renowned for buying the tax free shops empty! Somehow I don't think many U2 passengers buy for hundreds (if not thousands) of euro in juwelry and other stuff? If this airport wants to run a massive shopping mall inside its terminals because it makes loads of profits from these shops, it has an interest in pampering airlines that can bring them the kind of passengers known to be shopaholics, yet that doesn't match the typical profile of a cheap charlie flying shorthaul with some low cost airline, so it is indeed also in the interest of the airport to fully support SN's expansion plans.

[BrusselsAirlines]

Ok, back to business.

Now, it's time to find a point to all this.

[LJ]

Why would Etihad (besides the current codeshare they have with SN) want a huge partnership with SN. They already have Air France, Air Berlin and KLM. That seems enough.
Emirates is not going to do something like that either (they have their own good connections to Europe and easyJet).
Qatar Airways is Oneworld, end of story as well.

That's correct EY is luring towards Skyteam (even more as there is a rumour that Ey will start AUH-AMS next year). What point in forming a partnership with SN? Moreover with the anti-Middle Eastern airlines mentality of LH I doubt you see any deep partnership between SN and a Middle Eastern airline.

To make that possible shareholder Lufthansa will provide a loan of 100 million euros. Which destinations will be flown is not yet clear.

Which tightens LH grip on SN without having to excercise its call option of the remainder 51%... Will be inetersting to see how much LH will pay for the remaining 51% or if they'll excercise the option at all. We've seen in other cases (EY at AB) that a combination of o loan in combination with a large minority shareholding buys you as much influence as a majority shareholding without the nuisance when things go wrong.

[Acid-drop]

"It is possible that Ryanair would move from Charleroi to Brussels"

it possible that you die from a storm strike or a meteorit.
This scenario makes no sense unless BRU agrees to adapt very deeply their charges.
It's just a fog machine for the people of CRL : "agree our plan, it's safer for you".

It's been confirmed today that Ryanair will not leave CRL, even if SN dies, and Ryanair will further invest in CRL, with more planes based in the future.
http://www.lesoir.be/136002/article/eco ... s-airlines

The scenario of Ryanair moving to BRU was a huge joke, anybody could have say it ... but when the communication comes from the government itself, it makes you think ...
If that information was completely fake, is the rest of the plan completely a joke too ?

[airazurxtror]

From the above mentioned article :

Ryanair asked the Belgian government to reject pathetic attempts by Brussels Airlines to obtain subsidies for its high cost of labor, which would result in the Belgian taxpayer subsidying Lufthansa, one of the largest airlines group in Europe. '
We believe that if Brussels Airlines need money, it must come from their main shareholder Lufthansa, not from artificial state aid or subsidies from the Belgian government. In any event, the problems of Brussels Airlines are - by far - much more serious than wage costs or operating costs in Zaventem.
Our view is: Brussels Airlines is just another airline with high fares, high costs, at a time when most passengers expect low rates and efficient service such as that provided by Ryanair at Brussels South Charleroi airport.

They might have a point there ...

[cnc]

they have a point but from all airlines in the world FR should be the last to whine about this.
what nerve... an airline that gets 800 milion a year on subsidies is going to complain that an other airline get some 20 milion

[MD-11forever]

From the above mentioned article :

Our view is: Brussels Airlines is just another airline with high fares, high costs, at a time when most passengers expect low rates and efficient service such as that provided by Ryanair at Brussels South Charleroi airport.

It seems that Ryanair forgot to add a final line:
And most passengers also expect to get to their destination and back home safely, which seems to be a problem to guarantee for certain low fare airlines.

[cnc]

Is it ? Air france crashed in the middle of the atlantic not so long ago, not to forget the toronto story and the concorde ... Ryanair seems pretty safe next to that ...

you mean "has been extremely lucky untill now"

[airazurxtror]

It seems that Ryanair forgot to add a final line:
And most passengers also expect to get to their destination and back home safely, which seems to be a problem to guarantee for certain low fare airlines.

And you forgot a golden rule in aviation :
"You never hit out at rivals over safety because you never know when it might happen to you."

[RoMax]

RYR knows it better again, what a suprise...
Let's wait the result of the EU investigation of their own subsidies in Wallonia, don't we?