Charleroi Airport (CRL) latest news 2012

[airtrainer]

If you are on Moneybooker : there is a problem with Moneybooker-Ryanair at the moment, it does not work anymore.
See :

http://ryanair.site-forums.com/t1665-pa ... rd-prepaid

Thanks for the link. My card is from Moneybookers indeed, I tried on various occasions but finally gave up after the fare had gone...

I've received a folder advertising the new Bpaid Mastercard in the mail today, the offer looks good. However, there have been rumours that Ryanair would end their "no fee" policy for Mastercard Prepaid holders like they did for the Visa Electron not so long ago, so the future will tell...

[tolipanebas]

As part of the budget review by the federal government, regional governments and their airports will also have to pick up their fair part of the bill of Belgocontrol. Seems like the days when only the airlines serving BRU are paying for Belgocontrol are soon going to come to an end and airlines serving for instance CRL will also be asked to pay an ATC fee....

[airazurxtror]

Belgocontrol is said to have requested from the government that all passengers pay a tax of, say, 1 euro per flight in and out of all Belgian airports.

[airazurxtror]

Yesterday was the 15th anniversary of the Dublin-Charleroi route opening. Charleroi soon after became the first Ryanair base on the continent.
The arrival of Ryanair at Charleroi has led to fairly important changes all around in many fields : the airport, the air transport in Belgium and in Europe, the travel custom of the public, and, last but not least, on the price of travel by air.

http://www.charleroi-airport.com/raccou ... e6bfa25a7a

En 15 ans, Ryanair a transporté plus de 27 millions de passagers ! En 1997, ils n’étaient que 85 803.
Pour cette année, l’objectif de Ryanair est de dépasser les 5 millions de passagers via près de 80 destinations.

[sn26567]

The European Commission starts an investigation on state aid to airports in Belgium, France and Germany (see viewtopic.php?f=31&t=47031). Here is the text of their press release in relation with CRL:

Charleroi Airport
Charleroi (CRL) is a Belgian regional airport located in the Walloon Region (Hainaut province). In 2004, the Commission cleared part of the public support in favour of Ryanair but required the company to reimburse the state aid incompatible with EU rules (see IP/04/157). In 2008, the EU General Court concluded that the Commission had not applied the MEIP correctly and annulled this decision. The Commission has now reopened the case in order to take this judgement into account.

At the same time, the Commission has extended the scope of its investigation to possible state aid that was not covered by its original probe. This will enable the Commission to assess the situation in Charleroi on an equal footing with that in other airports currently investigated by the Commission. The extension relates to two sets of issues.

First, aid in favour of the Charleroi airport operator BSCA may have been granted by the Walloon Region and Société Wallonne des Aéroports S.A. (Sowaer), owners of the airport land and infrastructure. At this stage, the Commission has doubts that the provision of these facilities was carried out in line with the MEIP.
Second, while the initial investigation covered the conditions of Ryanair’s access to the airport services as determined by the 2001 contracts, the Commission now also raises doubts about the subsequent modifications of these conditions as introduced in 2004, 2005 and 2010. The Commission will also analyse whether part of the aid to the airport operator – if any – has been passed on to the airline.

[liege-bierset]

All this has, of course, nothing to do with intense lobbying performed by SN and BRU .
SN Bru are just trying to explain financial fiasco by putting the monkey on CRL' back.
Nice to be threatened by his own Belgium colleagues.

[Inquirer]

Just as I've said in another topic: the Walloon government may just turn out to be an objective ally of B.air in their quest for a levelled playing field, given such a level playing field may lead to a very friendly fiscal regime for Belgian airlines which may proof one of the tools with which it can subsequently try to withhold UPS from closing the LGG hub completely and moving everyting to CGN, so if I were a Walloon politician I'd be very reluctant to comment negatively on the active lobbying by Davignon and indeed, it seems they have understood so too...

[Acid-drop]

that's interesting !

[Passenger]

All this has, of course, nothing to do with intense lobbying performed by SN and BRU .
SN Bru are just trying to explain financial fiasco by putting the monkey on CRL' back.

Actually, it indeed has nothing to do with "intense lobbying performed by SN and BRU". If you would have red the article, you would have noticed that the investigation already started in 2002, when SN Brussels Airlines was starting up after the Sabena debacle and after 9/11 - and had no time to focus on Ryanair:
http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAct ... IP/02/1854

If you would read luchtzak-news more often, you would also know that the European Commission is doing the same in dept investigation into some 20 other regional airports. All served by Ryanair. Too much glory for Davignon and Lippens, my guess...

Nice to be threatened by his own Belgium colleagues.

I follow you on this one! It's indeed not nice to see how some Belgian political parties have installed severe noise restrictions at one airport (= BRU), whilst at two other airports they also "manage", they have done exactly the opposite (= LGG and CRL). Same applies for one Belgian regional government who wants to take over business with "unfair practices" (see the E.C. press releases). Because after all, this still is a federal country, so one could expect more loyalty from the south towards the north.

[sean1982]

And vice-versa

[Acid-drop]

Passenger, you may be right on the pure strict 1st degree.
But you can't deny there is a constant lobby coming from _some_ people in the north, always finding a problem in the south to justify something happening not too nice in the north.
And then the same people like Stefaan de clerck claim on the news * : hey, those walloon are unemployed but they don't want to work in Kortrijk, how is that possible, we have plenty of french.
Well dear fellas, those 2 are very deeply linked together. Some walloons have enough to be constantly threaten like monkeys by some flemish. It may be "some", and "some", but the feeling is spreading and people really fear to move.
Let me tell you I'm not one of those, I drive from Liège to Vilvoorde everyday, and I'm very happy of it, but I know how other people feel.
And it's very clear, as you say yourself, that we would be a lot stronger if we could manage this country all together without shooting ourselves in the foot.

* http://www.lalibre.be/economie/actualit ... llons.html

[Passenger]

Instead of political statements, I would prefer to see a reaction on some objective facts:

1. The European Commission already started its investigation into CRL/Ryanair in 2002 (see link above). Thus not few days ago, when Brussels Airlines announced its results for 2011.

2. The European Commission is doing the same investigation for at least 20 other Ryanair-destinations (see official news).

3. Political parties have installed totally different noise restrictions for BRU then for CRL and LGG.

4. DHL left BRU because of these severe noise restrictions at BRU.

5. TNT moved from BRU to LGG because of these severe noise restrictions at BRU.

[Acid-drop]

if you like fact, here is my analysis.

- the European commission is doing its job, we can only blame the time they need to act. If there is fault, it shall be corrected and everybody will be happy.

- The noice has nothing to do with this, CRL is a day airport, and comparing LGG with a huge inventment in sound-proofing and BRU which is located in a middle of a city is insane.

- TNT was never in BRU, they move from Cologne because the walloon gov made Liège a paradise for this specific kind of trafic. It's political will, just like flanders with its harbours.

[Jeremiah]

1. And the EC already lost the case in 2008.
2. That's the job of the EC
3. That's a normal thing in a federal state.
4. DHL left BRU because they wanted to move to Leipzig. It was part of the "Aufbau Ost".
5. TNT fleet never moved from BRU to LGG.

And besides, wasn't BRU build with taxmoney from all of Belgium and wasn't the main airline Sabena kept alive with millions of subsidies (which would be considered illegal now) every year for decades?

[Passenger]

1. And the EC already lost the case in 2008.
2. That's the job of the EC
3. That's a normal thing in a federal state.
4. DHL left BRU because they wanted to move to Leipzig. It was part of the "Aufbau Ost".
5. TNT fleet never moved from BRU to LGG.

And besides, wasn't BRU build with taxmoney from all of Belgium and wasn't the main airline Sabena kept alive with millions of subsidies (which would be considered illegal now) every year for decades?

Actually, Ryanair and CRL lost that first court case in 2004 and they had to refund some of the state aid (think it was 40% of the total). But they went into cassation because the EU dind't follow the right procedure for a mixture of state airports, "privatised" airports and private airlines, and the case was dismissed in 2008. The EU is now opening a new investigation - and indept this time - just like the EU has done / is doing against some 20 or 30 other Ryanair destinations. There was no complaint of Brussels Airlines: it's just Big Brother EU who looks for abuses.

You are right about Sabena. But wrong state aid into Sabena is no excuse to justify wrong state aid into Ryanair.

DHL didn't move to Leipzig because of the Aufbau Ost. An airport is just one part of logistics, and overland transport is as important. DHL decided to move away from Belgium because they were bullied away by ongoing announcements and/or installations and/or changes of night curfew and noise restrictions at Brussels Airport only. Parcel logistics indeed means flight activities during night time and overland pick up/delivery activities during day time. The noise restrictions at BRU are the same reason why TNT has moved most of their nightly cargo activities from BRU to LGG.

[airazurxtror]

Investigation does not necessarily mean indictment nor conviction.

[pressman]

This could end up being very bad for Bru Air , in the sense that FR are now in a regional airport and are not really in direct competition with them (IE) FR don't really care about Bru Air , they are too small to bother with so FR just do their thing at CRL regardless of what anyone else does . If however , FR are forced to compete with Bru Air at Zaventem by losing their advantages at CRL , then I can see FR quickly basing a number of aircraft there a la BCN and MAD and destroying Bru Air in a short time . Agreed with most here that this is a smoke screen by BRU Air to cover their abysmal results , really they would be better off to concentrate on their own business rather than what is happening down the road .

[kleineboy]

Ryanair to Montenegro

Flights starting in June?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-2 ... state.html

http://www.goedkoopvliegenclub.nl/nieuws.html

[crlhub]

http://www.rtbf.be/info/regions/detail_ ... id=7738151

[airazurxtror]

http://www.rtbf.be/info/regions/detail_ ... id=7738151

I liked it :

Pour l'administrateur délégué de BSCA, ce dernier chiffre de 15 euros est totalement faux. Et face à ces nombreuses critiques, Jean-Jacques Cloquet voit rouge.
Il contre-attaque en affirmant que toutes les aides régionales sont légales. Il n'y a, selon lui, aucune concurrence déloyale et l'aéroport de Bruxelles a aussi profité de certains coups de pouces. Et, dans ces circonstances qui auraient pu le justifier, l’aéroport de Charleroi, lui, ne s’est jamais permis de critiquer Bruxelles.

For the managing director of BSCA, the figure of 15 euros is totally false. And towards these many criticisms, Jean-Jacques Cloquet sees red.
He counter-attacks by asserting that all regional aid is legal. There is, according to him, no unfair competition and the Brussels airport also took some help. And in some circumstances that might justify it, Charleroi Airport has never let himself criticize Brussels.

One can trust Jean-Jacques Cloquet : when attacked, he'll fight back.