Taxi's blocking Brussels Airport after police shot driver

[DeltaWiskey]

It doesn't matter? Try to have a business in Wallonia and serve you customers only in Dutch, good luck...

As a Fleming, I insist on being served in Dutch in Flanders, I don't care if it is at a larger cost. Where is it going if we agree to let us be served in other languages than our (only) official one?
I am very flexible and willing to speak other languages, but there are limits.

However, I support a system where bilingual drivers should be allowed to pick up up customers a BRU if the fares are lowered.

[airazurxtror]

Anyway, most of the taxi drivers in Brussels are foreigners, Moroccan and the like. The Zaventem one is a "Tarek", it seems ...

[Vinnie-Winnie]

Anyway, most of the taxi drivers in Brussels are foreigners, Moroccan and the like. The Zaventem one is a "Tarek", it seems ...

Excuse me??? Tarek is most probably Belgian whether you like it or not... Not because you have a foreign name that you are not Belgian as far as I know... U got some kind of prejudice against any foreigners or shall we say foreign born Belgian? Cause all in all they represent 10% of the Belgian population as far as my memory recollects...

[cnc]

and your point is vinnie-winnie?
we all know they like to act as one big group whenever the opposite side is white. besides i bet you insulted them a lot more right now by saying they are belgians

[regi]

This incident is just the result of a long going dispute. About money, taxes.
It is remarkable to see that the taxi business is corrupted by the maffia in every country ( few exceptions are North-Korea, Vatican and Kiribati - I suppose )

The fact that this dispute is still going after so many years is the sole prove that local politicians are 100% sure on the take.
With modern GPS tracking systems, it can not be a great effort to establish a system that allows both way traffic for taxi's from the Brussels region and Flanders.

I hope that the local court will impound the taxi , being used as a weapon of attempted murder against an uniformed official. Most cars are not owned by the drivers ( who do 12 hour shifts ! ) but by some underground networks. Confiscate the cars, sell them on Kapazaa and the problem is solved for 50%. The other 50% is by implementing hefty fines on unlicenced drivers.
This will not lead to higher taxi fares, just the opposite. It is just the maffia environment that allows the unrealistic high fees.

[EBKT]

Don't forget that the airport name is Brussels National... So Flanders or not, it doesn't matter...

I really feel sorry hvs89 but your quote doesn't make any sense. Not considering the German communitiy in Belgium, every Belgian citizen should be able to speak Dutch AND French wherever in what part of the country you are living. The language which you obligatory and logically have to be able to speak is the official language where you work or live. Although the Brussels taxi drivers, are working and living in the official bilangual Brussels, this might be a main problem for most of them. You are right that most drivers do have a foreign origin, but this is the case as well for many drivers from Zaventem although they can speak Dutch. This is the same being a taxi driver in Paris without speaking French

Airport taxi drivers are paying taxes for their licence in the town of Zaventem. Taxi drivers from Brussels are paying these taxes in Brussels. So I don't get why Brussels taxi drivers should come to Zaventem to pick customers from other taxi drivers who payed for their licence. Taxis from Zaventem are not queing neither at the Central station in Brussels I suppose. If this is the law everyone has to respect each other. Their are other ways to negociate this possibility.

...it seems to me that Brussels Airport management should negotiate an agreement between the Flemish Region and the Brussels Region to allow taxis to pick up passengers in both directions.

I am not sure this is really the role for the BRU Airport management, probably more for the local governments but I agree. Taxi drivers should be possible to pick up customers in both direction.

Brussels Airport in the National Airport of Belgium. If regions cannot agreee, the Federal Government should intervene and impose such an agreement.

Fully agree!

Don't forget that the airport name is Brussels National...

Absolutely correct! We don't have to ignore it; but our airports in Belgium are a political and communautair topic. Whitout entering in detail as this is getting off topic and being discussed already partly in other topics: but what about the accessability to the airport, trains connections, high speed train, subsidies in Charleroi, the use of the name "Brussels South", the lowcostterminal etc...

[regi]

I don't agree. The vast majority of Brussels taxi drivers don't speak a word of Dutch and the airport (Zaventem) is in Flanders.

Don't forget that the airport name is Brussels National... So Flanders or not, it doesn't matter...

So you mean that cab drivers from Brussels can scavenge around in Charleroi because that airport is called Brussels South? Or that cab drivers from Bruges can do any pick up at Ostend because the airport is called Ostend-Bruges?

The language problem depends mostly on the customer.
It is obvious that when you take a cab at Zaventem ( Flanders untill further notice) and you say in clear Dutch a destination, the cab driver should understand where you would like to be taken. If his response is sounding something that he doesn't understand it, you should step out, because such a ride will probably lead to more complications. ( disregarding even the fact that you want to make a statement )
The problem is now up to the other drivers who are all standing in line and their unwritten law forbids that customers pick their choice of cab, you always have to take the first in line. But customer is king.
The result of this will probably be that not 1 cab will take you. Try option 2: take the train.
Before you go downstairs, don't forget to harras that cab driver by saying to the local police that cab nr. XYZ didn't want to put on his meter and asked 100 € to drive you to Brussels centre. Enjoy your train drive.

[EBKT]

So you mean that cab drivers from Brussels can scavenge around in Charleroi because that airport is called Brussels South? Or that cab drivers from Bruges can do any pick up at Ostend because the airport is called Ostend-Bruges?

I didn't explain myself very well but I meant that our airports are a political and communautair topic. Charleroi profiles itself as "Brussels" airport which is not the case, conditions and subsidies they get from the local government are different as well compared with BRU or Ostend for Instance. Although we have to gratulate the Walloon government on the other hand for their succes. The taxi problem is just one (small) example of these kind of problems. Then we don't speak yet about the (night) noice for people living nearby the airport. Their is no national support for the develepment for our "national" airport and that's a pity... the taxi problem is just one small example of this...

[regi]

and police is doing extra checks on all taxi's going to the airport, resulting in traffic jams.
http://www.nieuwsblad.be/article/detail ... 110511_125

I bet that the traffic jams are not caused because police stops every car. But because they have so much paper work with all the cabs which are violating all kind of rules.

So take the train - and get robbed at Brussels South or North station

[Conti764]

All language discussions aside, the point remains that this man used his car to deliberately attack a uniformed official doing his job, he dragged him miles away and tried to throw him off his car. A severe punishment is in place for such a criminal.

[jan_olieslagers]

Agreed to that Conti! It seems difficult to discuss ANY incident in this country without cultural/linguistical arguments popping up. And yet I for one cannot imagine this kind of crime is more acceptable in one language than in another. If really there is a difference, the time has indeed come to split up the country.

[Boavida]

I don't agree. The vast majority of Brussels taxi drivers don't speak a word of Dutch and the airport (Zaventem) is in Flanders.

Don't forget that the airport name is Brussels National... So Flanders or not, it doesn't matter...

The official name is "Brussels Airport" and it's owned by a private company. For the rest the company has to follow the laws of Flanders since it's on Flemish territory. In Zaventem the official language is Dutch.

[Passenger]

Dear all,

Allow me to clear some things up:

Language situation:

Brussels Airport (BRU here after), including runways, buildings, parkings and taxi ranks, is sole Flemish ground. So only Belgian laws and Flemish laws (“decreten”) apply. The Brussels Capital Region has no jurisdiction at all at BRU.

The fact that BRU is bilingual NL-FR or trilingual NL-FR-ENG or quatro (NL-FR-ENG-DE) has nothing to do with involvement from the Brussels Capital Region. So for sure: BRU is not annexed to the Brussels Capital Region. The multi-language situation at BRU is one of the exceptions from the Belgian language law (1963-1970) that obliges that all contacts to the public in a region must be done in the region’s official language. Flanders accepted that the only official language at BRU (Dutch) may be joined by French, English and German because of the national and international status of BRU.

Taxi licenses:

A federal law from 27/12/1974 (tells me Google) applies for taxis. That law says that a taxi driver may only pick up clients if he/she has a license from the region (Gewest-Région) where the passenger makes the booking or gets in the car.

This means that only taxi drivers with a license from the Flanders Region are allowed to pick up passengers at BRU. In the Flanders Region, it’s the cities that handle the taxi licenses. Each city can set up extra rules and charge the taxi fees. Zaventem, the Flemish city where BRU is, charges extremely high for a taxi license. Zaventem also adds some obligations, like clean cars, max. ?? years old, two airbags, driver must know Flemish (??), credit card must be accepted as payment, etc.

If a BRU-taxi drops off a passenger in Brussels city center, he is not allowed to pick up passengers there. The BRU-taxi indeed only has a license from the Flanders Region and not from the Brussels Capital Region.

Same applies vice versa: a taxi from Brussels downtown going with clients to BRU is allowed to drop them off at BRU, but he is not allowed to pick up clients at BRU. Simply because he has a taxi license from Brussels Capital Region and not a license from Flanders.

That’s why taxi drivers from Brussels downtown are allowed to use the expensive tariff II when driving to BRU, meaning that the passenger also pays for the drive back to Brussels. Same applies for a licensed BRU-taxi driving to Brussels downtown or even to Antwerp: he charges tariff II : the empty return trip is paid for by the passenger. If a taxi drives f.e. from Brussels Atomium to a Brussels railway station, it’s the cheaper tariff I.

Now, yesterday’s problem (going on for years even):

Taxi drivers with a license from the Brussels Capital Region drive empty to BRU to pick up clients there. They are not allowed to do so as they don’t have a license from the Flanders Region, issued by Zaventem city.

A taxi driver told on tv that his colluegue the-taxi-driver-who-was-arrested had a valid license. This is untrue. He had a valid license for the Brussels Capital Region, but that license is invalid in Flanders - and thus at BRU. It therefore was an illegal taxi.

Trust we all know how they do it: at the Arrival hall, they look for foreign tourists and ask them if they need a taxi. So the official taxi with his expensive license waits for nothing.

The control by the police on the A201 to the airport on Wednesday was to check that only “Brussels” taxi’s with passengers were driving to the airport. Empty taxi’s with a license from Brussels Capital Region were stopped and fined.

The incident from Tuesday is now treated as manslaughter against the policeman. We’ll therefore see the police controls much more the coming weeks: "you don't touch to a police man" is a unofficial rule for all illegal activities. And even worse for the illegal taxi drivers: by calling the police "assassins" (murderers), they behaved the opposite of what they were supposed to do = to apologize.

Solution ?

The proposed solution that taxis from the Brussels Capital Region should be allowed to pick up clients at BRU will be rejected by Flanders because Zaventem city will then loose the fees. Why would a taxi driver pay for an expensive "Flemish" license, if an ordinary license from the Brussels Capital Region is also valid?

This dispute was already going on in 1995, as this report from the Flemish Parliament from Febr 1995 proofs:
http://docs.vlaamsparlement.be/docs/han ... 021995.pdf
(By the way, I know that Zaventem is not a city but just a Gemeente. Niet vitten hé mannekes)

[hvs89]

After reading the responses to my post I realised that I responded way too quickly, without having understood correctly the position of Boavida.
I thought he was talking about Flemish cab drivers instead of Dutch speaking cab drivers. My apologies for that!

However, I fully agree that every Belgian should be able to speak both languages and that cab drivers at BRU should be able to understand the destination, whether you speak Dutch, French or English.

[liege-bierset]

Please Cab, drive me to Rijsel via Bergen !
Kafka is still alive. What a country.

[Vinnie-Winnie]

and your point is vinnie-winnie?
we all know they like to act as one big group whenever the opposite side is white. besides i bet you insulted them a lot more right now by saying they are belgians

My point is that race or origin has nothing to do with this: A criminal is a criminal, whether he's black, white or yellow.

Every corporatiste group acts as one when they get threatened: think about bus drivers, police, fireman... So once again this has nothing to do with race.

Now i'm not gonna get sucked into a debate about race. The guy has done something wrong and should be punished, but it could also have been a white flemish guy and that would have made his actions no less wrong...

[euroflyer]

Writing as somebody who has used Taxi's to / from Brussels Airport several hundred times over the past 10 years or so:

So far I never really experienced a major problem, drivers are (on average of course) as good or as bad as they are in other European capitals ... the prices are actually ok as well if you compare them with other capitals ... OK, you can get the taxi cheaper at Brussels airport if you pre-book a taxi from Brussels (which is legally ok, as long as you really pre-book it), however, than you can often discuss with the driver as they tend to start the meter already when they start waiting for you and not when you actually start the journey. But again, that is not different from any other European major airport in my experience (and I have quite some ...) ... I admit I sometimes try to catch a taxi from Brussels which just offloaded a passenger (not legally, I am aware) at the departure level as well, not because of the price but because sometimes the queue at the official taxi point is just horribly long, not all taxi driver do this, but some do, ok, it is up to them, I just ask

But what happened the day before yesterday seems to be quite something different and to me has nothing to do with taxi driver's attitude or licenses or whatever ... if the police in a European country asks you or anybody else as a driver to stop for a control you stop, full stop here, nothing else. You can trust the police in our countries (even if you do not like to be checked). Anybody who does not stop obviously is violating the rules and than normal police operations come into force, do not blame the police for this. I cannot understand other taxi drivers who have sympathy for that guy and go on strike "for him" only because he was a taxi driver as well. Would they go on strike in protest if another person, which happens to be a taxi driver, is put in jail because he/she has murdered somebody as well?

[regi]

I don't want to sound childish, but my last reply referring to maffia activities seems to be fully supported by this (Dutch) article:
http://www.standaard.be/artikel/detail. ... d=5U3A26S6

So we learn now that the real company Taxi Bleu rents out its cabs for 150 € a day , without asking questions.
That is exactly what I meant by hurting the maffia by confiscating those taxis. Without the ability to appear at the airport with a legitimate tax plate , you bring down the problem immediately.

( I hope that the tax department will do a thorough check on Taxi Bleu by comparing km on the cars , with the income. I bet that they put those 150 € a day to give a licensed car to a cowboy straight into their pocket. Secondly I do also hope that the people who drive legally for Taxi Bleu point their arrows to their "employer" who allows these parallel activities )
And I stick to my reasoning that the sole reason that this problem drags on already so long, is because of politicians who are on the take. As a Flemish citizen, I would not be surprised that the most corrupt politicians would be... Flemish! Because it is on Flemish soil that the law has to be applied, and it seems it is not done. ( well yeah, just now, window dressing, and let the police blow off some steam )

[teddybAIR]

I don't agree. The vast majority of Brussels taxi drivers don't speak a word of Dutch and the airport (Zaventem) is in Flanders.

Don't forget that the airport name is Brussels National... So Flanders or not, it doesn't matter...

Unfortunately, the name/branding of an airport has little or no legal consequences. The location of a company's HQ however, does!

[regi]

Writing as somebody who has used Taxi's to / from Brussels Airport several hundred times over the past 10 years or so:
I admit I sometimes try to catch a taxi from Brussels which just offloaded a passenger (not legally, I am aware) at the departure level as well, not because of the price but because sometimes the queue at the official taxi point is just horribly long, not all taxi driver do this, but some do, ok, it is up to them, I just ask

Exactly what I meant: it depends on the pasengers.
And I have to confess that I am as guilty or even more than you. I did it always at BKK, when I was alone. Quickly in the cab, no problem. But I stopped this practice after I had a terrible experience with a run down Mitsubishi Champ taxi . The driver didn't know the direction, his meter wasn't working , my child almost fainted because the airco gave up in the traffic jam and it all ended when the engine really blew up driving up the ramp of a fly over. Over and out, never again I will use illegal taxi's.
What Brussels concerns, I am happy for you that you never had real issues. It is in contrast with my business contacts who regularly complain about very strange experiences. The best example is a Turkish businessman who got almost in a physically fight because the driver from Kurdish background started to harras him. The man was kicked out of the car in Schaarbeek. He phoned me up and I advised him to get into a pub and have a coffee untill I would come to pick him up. We had a meeting at Oudenaarde. I went to pick him up and drove him back to the airport -charging nothing
Flemish businessmen I know usually use airport taxi service companies. It is cheaper than paying for the expensive guarded car park. ( in case if you go away for some days ) And it is healthier , certainly if you arrive completely exhausted after an early morning flight, day meeting and evening return flight.