British Airways to ask staff to work for free, do you agree?

[Av24.be]

According to this article: viewtopic.php?p=218252#p218252 British Airways asks his staff to work for free for 1 month, do you agree ?

[cnc]

i would do it for my company because i realy like my job and can afford it but i understand not everybody has the same love for its company or the finacial reserve to do it.
lets hope BA finds a sollution quickly

[Acid-drop]

This is a joke
the crisis has begun only a few months ago.
Before that, everybody was swimming in money ...

[NCB]

2 years ago BA made record profits.
Last year BA made record losses.

This year is looking even worse for BA as they are heading to a new record loss.
Their fuel hedges limited their losses last year and they got the same hedges on this year.

With the fuel bill about the same as last year, and falling revenues (falling traffic figures, free-falling yields, unsuccesful Open Skies, free-falling freight revenues), the sky is dropping on BA very quickly.

For the staff it's alot better to have 4 weeks of unpaid labour now than to renegotiate a contract "with the promise to push it back up once the economy picks up again", which usually never happens.
For BA it's better as well as they need immediate relief right now and not a little bit split over the next years.
It's a win-win deal in an all-must-help situation. It's usually not fun to work for free, but BA staff can make something very pleasant and cozy out of it, with all showing solidarity with eachother.

BA could compensate by giving a bunch of free vouchers to be used by BA staff's family or friends... flights are not so loaded anyway and non-revs are not going to make the difference.

[9vsmu]

If BA-staff agrees, they create a precedent. What will be next ??

When I go shopping, I'll tell the manager to wait for a month. Same story to the bankmanager, to whom I have to pay my loan,....

[joyraider]

If BA-staff agrees, they create a precedent. What will be next ??

When I go shopping, I'll tell the manager to wait for a month. Same story to the bankmanager, to whom I have to pay my loan,....

That's why they give people the choice... Some people cannot possible do without a month of pay, while others have been working for years & years & saved a safe cash reserve in order to fill this gap. And besides, I woulnd't mind a month of holidays without pay, if I had some savings

[Air Key West]

Hasn't BA made any savings or put money in a reserve line of their budget when they made huge profits several years in a row ? Or have the reserves already dried up ?
Anyway, the only compromise I could think of is that BA employees would, on a voluntary basis, lend a month's salary to their employer, to be paid back with interests at current interest rates for loans, when business picks up and BA makes profits again.

[airazurxtror]

Michaël O'Leary tries hard to find new sources of revenue, but he had not thought of that one !

[taz001]

i have mixed feelings here. if i could have a guarantee that it would save the company (i know it is as good as impossible to get such a guarantee) i would certainly consider it. But to be honest, i would be very difficult to manage financially, loans to the bank, other bills,... saving money is already difficult enough. BTW, i think it is outrageous that mr CEO pretends like he does his part by giving in a month's wage as well... this means he gives up 72000€... he has to survive two months at 36000€ each... poor guy.
What i would support is the idea that Air Key West brings forward

[ticketbuyer]

One month without pay?
No problem if you're earning £58,000 a month like Willy Walsh.
Rising to £61,000 next month with his new pay rise.

Correction: Willie will be giving up his first £61,000 monthly salary

[NCB]

Ol' Willie is earning every penny of his pay.

Imagine working 12 hours a day and commuting between border meetings, supplier meetings, union meetings, internal meetings, press conferences, having the responsibility over 40 000 employees and assets worth twice the Vatican's and having to constantly justify to shareholders?

Employees are victims but at the same time it's their job that makes them afford their house, their car, their travels, their saturday evening dinners and their pension. Sometimes they must return the favor, and it's in their best interest to keep the airline going so they can keep their job and keep affording all those luxuries.

Of course it's not easy for those who must pay rent/mortgages, etc... and don't have any kind of savings.
Nevertheless if they are told on time they can surely prepare for it and if they can't, it's safe to assume that they're not managing their money responsibly.

Being human is not only about being selfish.

[flightlover]

Ol' Willie is earning every penny of his pay.

Imagine working 12 hours a day and commuting between border meetings, supplier meetings, union meetings, internal meetings, press conferences, having the responsibility over 40 000 employees and assets worth twice the Vatican's and having to constantly justify to shareholders?

Employees are victims but at the same time it's their job that makes them afford their house, their car, their travels, their saturday evening dinners and their pension. Sometimes they must return the favor, and it's in their best interest to keep the airline going so they can keep their job and keep affording all those luxuries.

Of course it's not easy for those who must pay rent/mortgages, etc... and don't have any kind of savings.
Nevertheless if they are told on time they can surely prepare for it and if they can't, it's safe to assume that they're not managing their money responsibly.

Being human is not only about being selfish.

True being human is not about being selfish.
But what does willie have to pay for himself? I bet he has a car (with driver?), a cellphone, a pc and laptop and maybe even a house that's being paid for by BA. All those things have to be taken into acount as well. And no, not everyone can save money at the end of the month. Not everyone has the ideal life.

[b720]

The UK is different from Belgium, and some continental european countries.. First of all they pay less taxes .. difference between their net income and gross is lower than in Europe.. (most of continental europe) consequently they get much less from the state than what we are accustomed to.. they do not enjoy the safety net of unemployment benefits..not the way Continetal europeans do.. for most UK workers, loosing a job is more dramatic (financially) than in Belgium, or france.. I say more dramatic.. not implying that it is not dramatic here too.. anyways, I think that UK workers must save.. more so than we have to here in Belgium -for instance -.. returning to BA, I guess it is better to work without pay for a month (or take unpaid leave as BA suggested) and help one's company.. after all if it goes bust, there will be no pay for a very long time...looking back, I guess, most SABENA people would do just that (work without pay for a month or two) if that means the company survives.. I am not sure whether they were willing to do so in oct. 2001.

[pressman]

b720 , you're talking rubbish , get your facts right before posting . Unemployment benefit , childrens allowance is actually higher in the UK & IRL than it is here .
Despite the best efforts of my friends to explain away the extortionate taxation system here in Belgium , it is still daylight robbery by the government . I will however concede that the system can be very friendly to very wealthy individuals , but for the normal Joe Soap income tax worker it is scandalous . It's no wonder that belgium has such a black economy .

[b720]

Pressman, watch your language..thank you..

Unemployment benefits are lower in the uk.. for above 25year olds it is around 54 pounds a WEEK.
I don't know about child support.. taxes are lower in the UK;; and indeed it is cheaper to hire people as companies pay less "social" taxes.. which amounts to astronomical figures in Belgium. Bottom line, a worker is better protected in Belgium, hence less inclined to save .. that's all..

[pressman]

Is there a problem with my language ??? Sorry , I can't see it . The social taxes here are subsidies to a grossly inefficient system , having lived in 7 different countries for a period of at least a year I have never witnessed such a waste of money as I have seen here . Iworked for exactly one month under the belgian tax system before resigning on reciept of my first pay cheque . Sorry ,Iwon't work for anyone else for 6 months of the year .
back on topic , BA staff need to tell WW to get stuffed , over the last few years BA have made Billions of pounds - when he accounts for every penny of it , then he may have a right to ask people to work for free .

[Megaman]

work for free: no way.

Why not work in exchange for receiving part of your salary in shares of the company (even if this is 2% per employee).
Loans are also quite expensive for the moment. Why not ask employees to voluntarily invest in obligations of the company at a lower interest rate than the market rate (but still higher than the ordinary savings account rate).


I believe there are certain ways to be creative and get to a win win situation.
No company is going to make a slave of me. (except slaves were housed and nourrished)

[tolipanebas]

What's going on with all these silly proposals in aviation lately?

I mean:
BA asks it staff to work for free a whole month (thus meaning an 8% salary cut per annum)
SN asks it staff to give up any natural salary growth (thus meaning a 2 - 4% salary cut per annum)
etc...

When things went really well in aviation (the past 4 years), the airlines had the chance to make piles of money, money which could be earned fairly easily and spent even more easily on managerial bonusses, on fancyful rebrandings, on increasing the divident to the shareholders, on everything but the staff or the company actually....
Now things go bad and many shortsighted airlines have no financial reserves to tap from since everything has loong been handed out amongst a bunch of cash-hungry stakeholders, so in panic they see no option but to turn around to the staff to help pay the bills and thus save the company...

Sometimes I have the impression airlines are run just as badly as the banks were, with overgreedy managers and consultants talking smartly about products they don't know shit about, messing around for a couple of years, telling always the same stories about what a though time we happen to be in ("crude oil" you know, or "the economy", or "the bird flu" or something else) and how we must cut the costs, only to see how at the end of their term at the top of the airlines (normally after a few years) they max out their own bonusses, despite often piss poor results!

BA needs cash soon, okay, but it should offer something in return for any much needed salary cut (shares would be best) and allow shareholding staff to be involved in the long term strategic planning of the company in the future. Employees are often the only stakeholderswith a long term interest, so if anybody would really care about the well-being of the airline, it is them, not the shareholders or the managers who come and go....

As the complete meltdown of our banking system has shown, you simply can not trust shareholders and managers to operate under a system of self-governance: staff really needs to get some sort of control over their actions...

[WOB]

I've worked 13 years for Sabena,and when I see the result......(I think we've given more than one month of pay)
I can't agree,if the managers have done some faults,why the workers have to pay for them,when they got benefits,I've never heard about to be paid twice..............