Sat 01 Nov : two long delays for JAF

[JAFflyer]

So after all, it seems that did not sent a Martinair 767 to Varadero/Cancun, but just waited till OO-TUC was fixed.

Negative, the Martinair did in fact fly the passengers back. Odd conclusion you make out of that story...

The Martinair 767 left for Varadero on Saturday evening, so it could have been back in BRU already on Sunday evening - or at the latest on Monday noon. But then indeed, I was wrong, I'm sorry: I was wrongly thinking that JAF would try to get the pax back home as soon as possible, even it that would mean a double Martinair crew.

Anyway : trust the pax preferrred PH-MCG above OO-TUC for their return flight, don't you think so?

From your comment I can only assume you have no experience in subchartering aircraft, and certainly not for long haul operations. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Don't you think that JAF would have preferred double Martinair crew. It costs substantially less to operate a double crew then to accomodate the hundreds of pax + crew at outstation. Plus, you'll get the aircraft in BRU again earlier to be able to operate a second flight next day due to the prolonged AOG. (let's say a TLV)
But unfortunately that's not always possible due to:
1) company duty limitations. Each company has different duty limitations and operation manuals. 30 hours crew rest is not exceptional. This is mainly the result of unions having something to say in some companies.
2) pax load too high to be able to seat a double crew. You won't leave pax behind to be able to get the others home faster.

And might I add, that your statement concerning the state of OOTUC is really irrelevant. It's about the first time last week it has been AOG in over 4 months. You have no info concerning the technical status (I do) of this aircraft so please don't assume it is a lousy aircraft. Because if you do that, you're no better than some ignorant news reporter.
Sorry but it was about time someone pointed that out.

[76-er]

I was wrongly thinking that JAF would try to get the pax back home as soon as possible, even it that would mean a double Martinair crew.

And how were you planning and doing that and keep it legal? I've looked it up, but the absolute maximum allowable duty time (JAA, NOT company) is 19 hours with a double crew. But that would require a horizontal rest facility, with which MP's 767's are not equipped. MP has 'class A' crewrestseats, limiting duty to 'only' 17 hours.

[LX-LGX]

Indeed, I don't have experience in leasing aircraft. But I have booked a few then thousand passengers on planes in the past, including chartering whole planes from airlines, so I'm not getting all my info from internet or from Microsoft Flight Simulator III.

What interests me the most, is the state of mind from the passengers involved. They were supposed to arrive back home on Saturday 11h00, and they've only arrived in BRU on Tuesday, 06h45. It seems that this is seen here as a unforeseen delay, a minor fact, not relevant in the discussion. Well I can assure you, it was a nightmare for most of the pax. There were schoolchildren on the plane, there were schoolteachers on the plane, there were other people who had to go to work on Monday, there were people who had to go to a wedding party on Saturday evening, ...

Contrary to what you think, many pax do know OO-TUC. It's indeed 4 months after the previous AOG, but its history is known to many pax - specially long haul pax. As soon as a long delay is announced, it takes 15 minutes before a few pax shout out lould that they don't want to fly with OO-TUC anymore. Untill they may board, off course. So yes, I do believe that some pax (if not many) were happy that their return flight was not with OO-TUC but with PH-MCG.

TLV : the delay there started on Thursday, and OO-TUC would - without technical - only be back in BRU on Saturday. So I hope OO-TUC was not your backup plan for the Thursday and Sunday TLV-pax.

Martinair's 767 has 274 seats, and there were 213 pax. So there were seats available. Martinair is flying to VAR and CUN on a regular basis, so they have crew there. I don't know their overnight schedule however and I do not know Martinair's crew rest rules set up by the unions. But then: union rules should be overruled for pax in deep trouble, no?

[76-er]

I do believe that some pax (if not many) were happy that their return flight was not with OO-TUC but with PH-MCG.

-----

Martinair is flying to VAR and CUN on a regular basis, so they have crew there. I don't know their overnight schedule however and I do not know Martinair's crew rest rules set up by the unions. But then: union rules should be overruled for pax in deep trouble, no?

Do those same pax know MCG is THE highest time 763ER on the planet with 100.000 hours on it?

MP flies to VRA just once a week and the time of weeklong layovers are looooong gone. So no, no crew there. CUN is different, but Martinair probably needed the crew there for its own flights.

And lastly: yes, MP has a several bilaterals in place with the pilot- and flight attendant unions (and they're quite good too ) , and they cannot be overridden by the company without prior permission from those unions. But in cases like this, that's usually not the problem. Like I mentioned before, the new EU-OPS workrules can be rather strict.

[LX-LGX]

Today's JAF103 to Montego Bay / Puerto Plata:

ETD 06h05, delayed till 17h00

[Shanti]

Today 10/11/2008 another long delay for a jetairfly, normal departure
time was 06.00 but delayed until 17.00. Is this the famous boeing 767
OO-TUC plane?
Thanks for the information.

[taz001]

no, it appears to be the other one (not sure abt the registration, but i think it is OO-EOS)

[sdbelgium]

no, it appears to be the other one (not sure abt the registration, but i think it is OO-EOS)

EI-DMJ from Neos?

[LX-LGX]

Plane finally took off at 21h50.

There's a Cancun scheduled for Tuesday 08h00, and that one can only be the TUC. So today's delayed flight was probably the Neos.

[Shanti]

Poor passengers....but safety first of course!

[cathay belgium]

Come on Boeing !! So you see JAF and a lot of others need a 787 !!
Get on with it so the shit with OO-TUC can stop ...

eventually !

(hihi)

[Outsync]

It wasnt the TUC, but the EI-DMJ with hydraulic problems.