Aviapartner strike @ Brussels Airport (and Flightcare too)

[L-1011]

Was at the airport , passengers of United had to step behind a biac car to the terminal from one of the 3xx stands, what a sight ! .Pilots from Finnair were unloading the luggages from their E90.

Wow, They were lucky it was not raining. How did they bring the new to them? "Hey guys after your 8hour flight we thought it would be nice for you to have a 20min walk"

I wonder if the United pilots had to unload their 767 too

Anyway, a wild strike like this one, taking so many people hostage is not only bad for today but for Brussels Airport image around the world. It's a brake to growth and expansion efforts, and thus impacts the future opportunities of a lot of companies. The strikers are right to be dissatisfied of their working conditions but there are others ways to voice your opinion!!!

TriStar

[tolipanebas]

Pilots from Finnair were unloading the luggages from their E90.

It might come as a surprise to some, but it is something which is occasionally done by crew indeed and the reason is NOT so much because they care about the luggage of their pax, but because once their plane is empty, they can fly back home... otherwise they are trapped in BRU as safety regulations don't allow you to depart with luggage only.

That's why you'll always see it done by foreign crew at BRU. The Belgian crews will only do so abroad (if they would want to do it)

Now, what would be interesting is if you'd have seen them LOAD their plane... but I don't expect you'll often see that being done by crew.

[JoskeDR]

You know what, I am so sick and tired of hearing about poor poor passengers!!!!
These days flying costs only a FRACTION of what it used to cost, and still people complain about it.
People want cheap flights creating a pressure on the sector to deliver the same for less. So workload increases and the STUPID MANAGEMENT seems to only increase their own salary etc etc
Result: a poorly managed company in which the bosses drive around in their lexuses doing absolutely NOTHING at all, and the workforce being pushed to the limits, blackmailed and so on. IT HAS TO STOP!
not only is it a risk for themselves working like this, it's also a risk for everybody else working @ bru.airport like myself. I dread the day my plane gets struck by a fuelling truck or another vehicle but in reality that day is coming closer and closer and if those STUPID MANAGEMENT people don't seem to get the message their staff has been sending out for years now, I think it is a very legitimate action of the workforce to go on strike!
This is a desperate cry from people forced to work in dangerous condition. If you want to blame someone, blame that STUPID MANAGEMENT who is taking loads of bonusses each year for nothing at all!!!
Notice the fact I use 'STUPID MANAGEMENT' several times as it's simply a fact, we are living in a world where everybody seems to be a manager, but nobody actually is one. And we accept it asif it's normal. to mention another example what happened over at Fortis... it happens at alot of companies every day but people simply don't know about it!

And even if the strik was announced, people would still be yanking and moaning about the fact they wouldn't be departing from BRU ... it is time people on this world start opening their eyes.

[JoskeDR]

The strikers are right to be dissatisfied of their working conditions but there are others ways to voice your opinion!!!

TriStar

Sorry but in this world, I simply don't see it. Tolipanebas i completely agree with you, and sorry about my very contra-managerial voicing over here but it just disgusts me day in, day out!

[tolipanebas]

it is time people on this world start opening their eyes.

Indeed, all those people who are now complaining have all booked the cheapest flight they could find, yet are probably still complaining how expensive it is and would all swap to a company which is even a few earo cheeper without thinking about it for a minute on how that still works!

Heck, people are so used to flying in a multi million euro plane and arriving in total safety and comfort, that they have grown fully accustomed to it and don't ever consider for a moment that it is somehow not really logic you can go cheaper to Milan by plane, than you can go by car these days, despite record fuel prices.

In need of a hint maybe?

Its because for the sake of staying competitive, airlines are forced to squeeze every drop of juice out of whatever they can get their hands on: their fleet of planes, their crew, their service providers ... who in turn do the same with their staff, their material and their subcontractors.

I don't think there is any sector in our industry which is so competitive and where there has been such a steep downwards trend in working conditions as in aviation, especially in Belgium (thanks to the Sabena bankruptcy) and the lower you go on the hierarchic ladder of companies, contractors and subcontractors, the poorer the working conditions get...

Maybe this is the good moment for all those pax -who really have nothing else to do but to sit by and wait for their luggage to arrive- to stop bashing the strikers and to realise that in order to potentially safeguard their next trip from being hit by yet another sudden but very just strike over steeply deteriorating working conditions, it might be worth spending some more money on a ticket with a serious airline which pays everybody a fair salary and which still has some business ethics left, rather than to naively rush off to the cheapest new airline that happens to arrive at Brussels and is forcing its competitors to go even lower still, with all the known consequences for the work force at the established airlines and their service providers.

[Stij]

Maybe this is the good moment for all those pax -who really have nothing else to do but to sit by and wait for their luggage to arrive

Well, clearly your family and friends are not involved.

Ever wondered when you walk around at Ikea how and in what kind of conditions those extremely cheap goods are made in the worker's paradise of China? How they have become cheaper overtime? Probably not. Why? You don't know Ikea's business and you don't care. Neither is it the pax their job to know aviation business or to care about it! You just can't blame the pax for what's happening in a business that has become a commodity!

If the airliners would raise their prices, as you propose, to Sabena levels, you might as well fire half of the BRU labour force, because half of the pax won't fly anymore. Actually this is happening all over the world, latest example "Spanair", including airplane and staff reductions.

I wonder how "happy" you'll be when the "stupid management" actually does what you ask.

Cheers,

Stij

[JoskeDR]

Do you make all your decision based on your personal emotions?
I'm talking about plain facts, management induce a safety compromising working environment and are not willing to accept the fact that people are more and more starting to value their own life.
Look, it's very simple, either something changes, and THAT IS MANAGEMENT'S DECISION, it's not asif they haven't the power to do so, or they keep on striking.
I'm not the kind of person to say: 'I will accept pispoor conditions because 10000km along the globe people accept it'... i'm sorry I have personal standards and do not wish to diverge from them.
You know, maybe all aviapartner/flightcare personell should just quit... they can find better conditions for the pispoor little money they get, why don't they you'd say? well I don't know but I suppose they somehow still like their job and find it worth fighting. However fighting does not mean 'letting managment run al over them'...
EDIT*: some of my family IS involved in the situation(as a traveller) and to them I say the same "Very sorry this happened to you, but don't blame the workforce as they were put in a corner with only 1 way out" after a brief explanation of what is actually going on over there, workingconditions, things I experience every day, they agreed with me...
but I guess most of our people's tunnelvision-minded vision in life is simply not capable of being that considerate.
All those being like STIJ... consider this: at your job the working conditions grow worse and worse every year up to a point where you say this is enough... what would you do... and if you'd do nothing, you're not worth your job!

[744rules]

I think one of the problems of "Management" is they are just managers. It's very often a bunch of very clever people who got some degree in management. All they care about is that some figures are increasing (profit, .....) and some figures are decreasing (operating costs, labour costs, ....). They don't have the slightest idea how it works in real life and have no or little sense of reality.

In the end, when strike is the only way to get their attention, very often the reaction is : Why didn't you tell us ??? As if they couldn't see it coming

[Stij]

Do you make all your decision based on your personal emotions?

They're not emotions, they're economics: nobody in the business makes money for the moment: nobody, as somebody wrote "everbody is being squeezed like a lemon". So when companies hire more people or buy new equipment, prices to pax will have to be raised or they go bust. When you raise prices, less people will fly, so less money comes in, so costs have to be cut, thus fleets are reduced and people are fired. It's not emotions, it's the law of offer and demand.

You know, maybe all aviapartner/flightcare personell should just quit... they can find better conditions for the pispoor little money they get, why don't they you'd say?

But I didn't say it, neither would I say it.

I'm not the kind of person to say: 'I will accept pispoor conditions because 10000km along the globe people accept it'... i'm sorry I have personal standards and do not wish to diverge from them.

Neither am I, it was just an example to make the point that when a customer buys a service or good, he looks at the price and the good or service and makes a decision to buy or not. A customer doesn't care about what's behind. I've chosen Ikea because almost everybody is an "uncaring" customer there.

All those being like STIJ... consider this:

Talking about emotions...

Anyway, the points I wanted to make are that you can't blame pax like Tolipanebas did and that the actions like the one of today could have consequences to the number of people employed at the airport in the future. Nothing more, nothing less.

Cheers,

Stij

[tolipanebas]

nobody in the business makes money for the moment: nobody, as somebody wrote "everbody is being squeezed like a lemon".

Now, now... There is still good money to be made in aviation...otherwise we'd all be going by bus or boat.

A customer doesn't care about what's behind. I've chosen Ikea because almost everybody is an "uncaring" customer.

MOST customers indeed don't care, but then I suggest they should just shut up.
If a customer pretends not to know/care about how the price of a product can be as low as it only is, logically he also shouldn't have an opinion on the urgent need for and the methods used to improve the working conditions for those who produce his goods. No opinion really means just that: no opinion.
Otherwise, he damn well is a caring customer, but just about himself then...

Besides: In a more general perspective, customers often DO have a choice: one can buy bananas as cheap as possible and don't give a fuck about the farmers who can hardly live of what they grow, or one can buy fair trade goods, making sure farmers get a fair price for their product. Just one example...
Now, I know which bananas I eat, what do you have in your fridge If I may ask???

I wanted to make are that you can't blame pax like Tolipanebas did.

I've just pointed out that the root cause for the unrest amongst many pax today is to be found in their own selfish behaviour as a consumer. If you want to call that blame, then so be it...

We're living in a society where everything that happens and causes disturbances immediately needs to be blamed on somebody else so it seems, because nobody is brave enough to just take up his own responsability as part of an increasingly selfish society.

[fc82091]

i work for flightcare and i didn't join the strike because imo you get payed to work a whole shift, not spend half your time inside drinking and smoking. i agree we have some very hard moments but thats not every day and hour. people are just getting used too fast to the good (less working) parts of their job

[Stij]

Besides: In a more general perspective, customers often DO have a choice: one can buy bananas as cheap as possible and don't give a fuck about the farmers who can hardly live of what they grow, or one can buy fair trade goods, making sure farmers get a fair price for their product. Just one example...
Now, I know which bananas I eat, what do you have in your fridge If I may ask???

Don't like bananas, but if you want some kind of an answer, in the fridge are mostly vegetables that Delhaize sells under Bio label, is it respecting the farmers or not, I don't know, but I guess so.

This aside, I agree, but when it comes to bigger expenditures people tend to forget the social behaviour they had when they had to spend 50€ at Delhaize. In the business where I work, compete and squeeze with expensive EU-products respecting all the laws and rules against Asian not-so-law-and-rule-respecting competitors, most people and even some governments (the inventors of the rules) tend to prefer their walet over the respect for the rules. For privacy reasons I can't write down the name of the product.

Even if airplane tickets are cheap, for an avarage family one must still pay 400 to 600€. For most families still a major expenditure.

We're living in a society where everything that happens and causes disturbances immediately needs to be blamed on somebody else so it seems, because nobody is brave enough to just take up his own responsability as part of an increasingly selfish society.

I don't blame anybody...

Cheers,

Stij

[Atlantis]

This is just a shame. There are other ways to put the management under presure. They are attacing now their own work environnement. This costs the airport millions and millions a day. The claims and bills will follow.

But on the other hand, a third handler on the ramp is more then welcome. Inside, no problem. Al lot of airlines do their own handling: check ik, boarding, etc.

But these kinds of actions are realy stupid and put away more airlines and cargo airlines to other airports. They show how un-reliable they are.

These are very bad months for the airport: the strike of Lufthansa: thousands of pax less and now this strikes. It will take days to recover. How many bags will be lost this time????

And this during the months with more pax and cargo as never before. Parking lots are again 100%. Dutch cars are again parking in front and behind the Carhotel at Brucargo.

It's a real disgrace.

[ElcoB]

.. There are other ways to put the management under presure...

And what for example is acceptable ?

..They are attacing now their own work environnement...

They want improvement , a more motivating pay, more security and reasonable workshedules.

This costs the airport millions and millions a day. The claims and bills will follow.

Yes, and who is to blame? The workers on the floor, or the management that cannot evaluate his own decisions?

But on the other hand, a third handler on the ramp is more then welcome.

Ah yes, let's import some 'third world' workers, cheap and not organised.

Inside, no problem. Al lot of airlines do their own handling: check ik, boarding, etc.

Yes, some companies still have motivated people which is good of course....not everything is bad at the airport....

But these kinds of actions are realy stupid and put away more airlines and cargo airlines to other airports. They show how un-reliable they are.

Ah, the ever returning argument.......can you point out one (1) example?

These are very bad months for the airport: the strike of Lufthansa: thousands of pax less and now this strikes. It will take days to recover. How many bags will be lost this time????

Yes, life can be hard....ask Lufthansa or BA with their terminal 5......

And this during the months with more pax and cargo as never before. Parking lots are again 100%. Dutch cars are again parking in front and behind the Carhotel at Brucargo.

See, not everything is bad.....

It's a real disgrace.

indeed, you can't have always all the luck in life....

Disclaimer: It is not my intention to mount a personal attack. I just do not agree with some points of view.
Just trying to put some perspective. Dedicated, motivated and energetic people keep things turning.

[airazurxtror]

Ryanair isn't so wrong when he tries to make people travel light, with 10 kg cabin baggage, and even soon trying some "no hold baggage" flights.
But then Ryanair wouldn't come to Brussels ...

[zteven]

This is just a shame. There are other ways to put the management under presure. They are attacing now their own work environnement. This costs the airport millions and millions a day. The claims and bills will follow.

I am afraid there are NO other ways.

For several MONTHS we were telling the management that we need more staff and equipment.
Do you think they listened once? Always making promises, yes. But no real actions were taken.

A few new (un)loaders started to work but after 1 or several weeks almost all of them left.
Why? Pressure too high! And they were not the onlyones to leave, so today we actually have
less personnel.

Same problem with our colleagues at Flightcare. We are fighting for the same cause here.
All that the (un)loaders want are more humane working conditions.

The first negotiations ended in nothing. Let's hope the second will bring something good
and that they can do their job in a proper way, as it should be.

Greetz



Steven

[Atlantis]

One simple answer: don't anger who is paying your loan at the end of the month: pax, cargo airlines and TO.

The unions, the die hards, are doing more bad then good.

And like always, a lack of competition. Those two have almost a monopoly in this country and they know it. They can do what they want. The pressure is hard, ok, but a little bit of respect is more then welcome.

Second: solve the intern problems without anger more then 50.000 pax, cargo airlines, TO and clients.
I know for 100% that my clients won't be happy when we go on strike for more then a day: no deliveries, no pax flights, no cargo flights, etc. That would costs us also millions of euros and a lot more work.

[ElcoB]

but a little bit of respect is more then welcome.....

Exactly....that's what the strike is about if I read zteven's post correctly..

[Atlantis]

This is just a shame. There are other ways to put the management under presure. They are attacing now their own work environnement. This costs the airport millions and millions a day. The claims and bills will follow.

A few new (un)loaders started to work but after 1 or several weeks almost all of them left.
Why? Pressure too high! And they were not the onlyones to leave, so today we actually have
less personnel.

Do you know what the problem is? I see this also in our company, the "new" ones don't want to work very hard anymore. Before they start they have more questions about their loan then about the work etc.

For several MONTHS we were telling the management that we need more staff and equipment.
Do you think they listened once? Always making promises, yes. But no real actions were taken.

I know that Flightcare has some new equipment and this for (un)load cargo, baggage. Totally new equipment for disembarking pax, etc. I don't think that they have to complain about their equipment.

[JoskeDR]

Don't get me started about Flightcare equipment, i live with it every day Atlantis, don't talk about what you don't know. The people have very good intentions but they don't get the means to do their job right and safe.
I agree that it's a pitty for those affected but ATLANTIS: show me 1 other way of coping with being faced into a corner with only 1 way out?
That this will cost alot of people money... pitty for them but maybe this way they will see that not everything in this world is about putting a number on a paper "et voila, its done"... management, like mentioned before here, is really lacking a realist sense these days, they have a shitload of formulas and mish mash talk to prove their point while in the end its just another 'gamble' down the road... sorry but I for one am not supposed to bear the consequences of their mismanagement. It's my right to defend myself from them, and if they leave no other option, then I will use the ultimate option: strike! more people should do this.
don't get me started about that '500€ holiday is expensive for some families' crap, if you don't have the money DON'T GO!
Cheerz