Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd. (0293.HK) is considering adding a larger variant of Boeing Co.'s (BA) 787 aircraft to its fleet as the carrier expands its passenger network, Chief Executive Tony Tyler said Thursday.
The airline, which operates a fleet of wide-bodied jets, considers the existing 787 design as "a bit small" and its maximum service range to be shorter than it would like, Tyler told reporters.
Cathay Pacific's passenger network consists mainly of high-volume regional and longhaul routes. The standard 787 models carry between 210-290 passengers, according to Boeing. The manufacturer has said it is looking to develop a stretched version of the aircraft depending on customer demand.
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/art ... RTUNE5.htm
Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Larger Version Boeing 787
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Gliderpilot
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It seems that the last few months airlines are putting more pressure on Boeing to launch the 787-10...
I think there is a possibility that they would launch it at the Dubai airshow later this year. But on the other side, the sooner they launch it, the less orders for the 772, as they are in the same segment. What are your opinions?
I think there is a possibility that they would launch it at the Dubai airshow later this year. But on the other side, the sooner they launch it, the less orders for the 772, as they are in the same segment. What are your opinions?
They want more range? 8,000 nm isn't enough? Even the A350-1000 won't have enough range for them then.
I get the impression some people think the A350 is quite a bit larger then the 787. The A350's fuselage is only about 9 INCHES wider then the 787, and the wing a little bit bigger. If Boeing wanted to build a787 that would hold as many passengers as the A350-1000, they could.
As for the 787-10, I think Boeing should build it, maybe two versions. A simple stretch that has less range, and an ER version with a bigger wing, uprated engines and extra fuel tanks.
Either Boeing replaces the 777-200 with the 787-10, or Airbus will replace it with the A350-900. What Boeing has to worry about is the A350-1000.
I get the impression some people think the A350 is quite a bit larger then the 787. The A350's fuselage is only about 9 INCHES wider then the 787, and the wing a little bit bigger. If Boeing wanted to build a787 that would hold as many passengers as the A350-1000, they could.
As for the 787-10, I think Boeing should build it, maybe two versions. A simple stretch that has less range, and an ER version with a bigger wing, uprated engines and extra fuel tanks.
Either Boeing replaces the 777-200 with the 787-10, or Airbus will replace it with the A350-900. What Boeing has to worry about is the A350-1000.
Weight wise the 350-1000 is in a different category than the 787, and will offer an inch more width per passenger than the 787.boomer535 wrote: Even the A350-1000 won't have enough range for them then.
I think this is one of the problems for the 350-10, in that it has more weight but can still only go out to 9 abreast, so Boeing can match them for capacity with a lighter aircraft, and hence more efficient aircraft.
The extra comfort of one inch more width I personally think is a plus, but for the travelling public must not be so. In the intense war between Virgin Blue and Qantas (320 v 737) I have not heard it mentioned. The level of the extra width is in the cabin is also a factor obviously.
Ruscoe
I dont' think Boeing will stretch the 787-10 to a point that it matches capacity and maybe even range of the A350-1000, because that would be a 773ER direct rival. They are already hesitating to cross the 772ER border, but it looks like they have to, so going even larger will mean that they are also 'using one aircraft to go tackle 2 families', and some of us here already doubted whether it works for Airbus, but none of us is doubting whether it works for Boeing.
Cathay is conservative, and what are their 787-10s intending to replace or supplement? I can only think of A343, but then they have a whole bunch of 772ERs and 773s, and that will probably be when the A350 comes into play.
Cathay is conservative, and what are their 787-10s intending to replace or supplement? I can only think of A343, but then they have a whole bunch of 772ERs and 773s, and that will probably be when the A350 comes into play.
Well, CX has 772, not 772ER. They certainly would love to replace the B772 and A343 in the near future. I think CX is pushing for B787-10 becasue it gives them more option. By the time Boeing launch the B787-10, it will probably be next year after the first B787 is delivered to ANA. That means, by that time, CX will be able to evaluate a real thing in real performance, and that allows them to order it with confidence and assurance. A350 is still a developing project, although if Airbus makes it wider (I mean significantly wider than 787), CX may really consider it. It's going to be interesting.
With B773ER being delivered in the next few years, I don't think CX is in a hurry to replace the B773 family at all.
As for Dragonair, KA has a younger fleet than CX, so I am not sure about renewing the KA fleet is in high order. Instead, I think you'll see expansion in KA fleet with the same type of aircrafts in the next few years.
With B773ER being delivered in the next few years, I don't think CX is in a hurry to replace the B773 family at all.
As for Dragonair, KA has a younger fleet than CX, so I am not sure about renewing the KA fleet is in high order. Instead, I think you'll see expansion in KA fleet with the same type of aircrafts in the next few years.
Well they said they aren't close to making any decisions, and in reality I think all airlines, like Cathay, are evaluating the 787, it is better than anything any airline has at the moment, but then while the A350 is a few years behind, I'm sure airlines will not ignore it just because the design hasn't been finalised, especially when the 787 delivery slots are filled up and delivery time of the two is similar now.CXRules wrote:Well, CX has 772, not 772ER. They certainly would love to replace the B772 and A343 in the near future. I think CX is pushing for B787-10 becasue it gives them more option. By the time Boeing launch the B787-10, it will probably be next year after the first B787 is delivered to ANA. That means, by that time, CX will be able to evaluate a real thing in real performance, and that allows them to order it with confidence and assurance. A350 is still a developing project, although if Airbus makes it wider (I mean significantly wider than 787), CX may really consider it. It's going to be interesting.
With B773ER being delivered in the next few years, I don't think CX is in a hurry to replace the B773 family at all.
As for Dragonair, KA has a younger fleet than CX, so I am not sure about renewing the KA fleet is in high order. Instead, I think you'll see expansion in KA fleet with the same type of aircrafts in the next few years.
If they say what Boeing is offering is a bit small and a little short, like Qantas, the next thing they look at must be the XWB-900 or -1000. But I guess they probably won't order anything that hasn't proven itself yet at this stage..
I agree here. The A350 is a few years away, but there is no doubt that airlines like Cathay are giving it consideration, seeing that one of CX's competitors, Singapore has made a commitment to the A350. But, lets say that CX does order the 787, what routes will they use them in, and will they be the replacement for A330's, which if i'm not mistaken, are still relatively new planes in the CX fleet.CX wrote: Well they said they aren't close to making any decisions, and in reality I think all airlines, like Cathay, are evaluating the 787, it is better than anything any airline has at the moment, but then while the A350 is a few years behind, I'm sure airlines will not ignore it just because the design hasn't been finalised, especially when the 787 delivery slots are filled up and delivery time of the two is similar now..
If CX ordered the B787-10, then it will likely be replacing the A340-300s first, assuming the -10 will provide similar range as the A343. Routes will be mainly to Europe (i.e. Amsterdam, Rome), as well as Australia, possibly. If the -10 performances well, CX may decide to replace A330 with -10 down the road.
I just thought of this. B787 can also be used to replace the Dragonair fleet of A330s in the longer term, -3, -8, -9, and -10 provide a good range of sizes. As the Chinese market continues to grow, I think KA can use some different sizes of the B787s. Just a thought.
I just thought of this. B787 can also be used to replace the Dragonair fleet of A330s in the longer term, -3, -8, -9, and -10 provide a good range of sizes. As the Chinese market continues to grow, I think KA can use some different sizes of the B787s. Just a thought.
KA has an entire fleet of A333s and A320s, excluding their cargo 747s, will be a rather dramatic and difficult change to replace entire fleet of A330s to 787s.CXRules wrote:If CX ordered the B787-10, then it will likely be replacing the A340-300s first, assuming the -10 will provide similar range as the A343. Routes will be mainly to Europe (i.e. Amsterdam, Rome), as well as Australia, possibly. If the -10 performances well, CX may decide to replace A330 with -10 down the road.
I just thought of this. B787 can also be used to replace the Dragonair fleet of A330s in the longer term, -3, -8, -9, and -10 provide a good range of sizes. As the Chinese market continues to grow, I think KA can use some different sizes of the B787s. Just a thought.
Cathay does have some older A330s which they may want to get rid off in the nearer future, but wasn't some of their latest A333s meant to be replacing some of their older A333s?
I don't know but there is always a feeling that if Cathay has a choice, like if both Airbus and Boeing has quite equal performance planes, they will pick the planes from France, but of course in the case of 787vsA350, 787 is definitely at a better position especially given their conservatism.
I don't see any difficulties to replace A333 with B787 in KA's fleet, and I don't see any indication that CX prefer Airbus over Boeing.
If CX decides to go with B787, KA will probably follow. It's been only a year that KA being part of CX, and it's going to be interesting to see how will that play out when KA order planes. But in all logical sense, if CX order B787 (over A350), KA will probably get some too. If CX order A350, KA will get some of A350 too.
CX hasn't replace any older A333s, and I don't think they will until the next decade.
If CX decides to go with B787, KA will probably follow. It's been only a year that KA being part of CX, and it's going to be interesting to see how will that play out when KA order planes. But in all logical sense, if CX order B787 (over A350), KA will probably get some too. If CX order A350, KA will get some of A350 too.
CX hasn't replace any older A333s, and I don't think they will until the next decade.
Cathay has 12 A330s delivered between 1995-98, if the older A330s were indeed to be replaced, they would be the first to go. At the moment, Cathay has 5 A330 deliveries pending over the next 2 years, during which they will surely want to expand their regional operations. So i doubt any of the older A330s will be retired.
Around 5 years on maybe, there should be a large order to look forward to, with Cathay and Dragonair currently operating 43 A330s between them. From where I see things, there is still a lot of time before the A330s/B773s (non ER) are to be replaced and a lot can change by then including Cathay's future plans and industrial trend/structure. So I wouldn't to give either or the contending aircrafts any advantage.
The talk about B787-10 by Emirates or Cathay Pacific is merely to pressure Boeing into giving them a choice (and quite possibly discounts) and just because they're 'expressed interest', it cannot be guaranteed they will choose 787-10.
Around 5 years on maybe, there should be a large order to look forward to, with Cathay and Dragonair currently operating 43 A330s between them. From where I see things, there is still a lot of time before the A330s/B773s (non ER) are to be replaced and a lot can change by then including Cathay's future plans and industrial trend/structure. So I wouldn't to give either or the contending aircrafts any advantage.
The talk about B787-10 by Emirates or Cathay Pacific is merely to pressure Boeing into giving them a choice (and quite possibly discounts) and just because they're 'expressed interest', it cannot be guaranteed they will choose 787-10.
CATHAY PACIFIC, the Hong Kong-based airline, is in early talks with Airbus and Boeing, the plane manufacturers, about spending up to E2bn ($2.74bn, £1.35bn) on expanding its fleet.
The European aerospace giant owned by EADS has been campaigning hard for its A380 super-jumbo and the smaller A350 to feature on Cathay’s shopping list.
http://www.thebusinessonline.com/home-p ... leet.thtml
The European aerospace giant owned by EADS has been campaigning hard for its A380 super-jumbo and the smaller A350 to feature on Cathay’s shopping list.
http://www.thebusinessonline.com/home-p ... leet.thtml
I wasn't aware of that. Can anyone confirm it?Hong Kong Airlines signed a memorandum of understanding for 51 Airbus aircraft at the Paris Air Show in June.
I do hope Cathay decide to buy the A380s, however few. I can't imagine Cathay planning to buy any A350s for anything apart from A330/B777 (non ER) replacement.
$2.74bn isn't that much if they are getting large widebodies right? i don't know...
Will not be surprising for them to operate both 787 and A350, unless they want a change.
I thought the 788 would be something of a A330 replacement, but if they are demanding a 'larger' and 'farther' 787, then that's not what they are intending to do.. pure expansion??
Will not be surprising for them to operate both 787 and A350, unless they want a change.
I thought the 788 would be something of a A330 replacement, but if they are demanding a 'larger' and 'farther' 787, then that's not what they are intending to do.. pure expansion??
If they are pushing for that class aircraft, at least per their past practice, the only choice would be the 787-10.
The A350 would not have any service history, and -10 would have at least the basic systems, though it would entail significant changes. That still outside Cathay Pacific past practice.
Reality may be that they don’t have the choice to be conservative anymore and will join up with others, take the hits from new aircraft introduction knowing it will pay off in the long term.
The A350 would not have any service history, and -10 would have at least the basic systems, though it would entail significant changes. That still outside Cathay Pacific past practice.
Reality may be that they don’t have the choice to be conservative anymore and will join up with others, take the hits from new aircraft introduction knowing it will pay off in the long term.