Alitalia close to liquidation

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 18 Jul 2007, 00:12

The last candidate for take-over Air One has stated it will not bid on the company anymore as conditions requested by the Italian government do not permit any decent reorganisation of Alitalia.

leopoldm · Post by **leopoldm** » 19 Jul 2007, 15:33

Oups ... makes me afraid !

We have to travel to and from Italy with their national carrier in the first half of August.
What are the chances for a bankruptcy at short term ?

Another question : does anyone knows a company where I can take some additional insurance to see my money back, in the worst case ?
Seems that most travel insurance comp don't take this kind of "risks" in account ...

Thanks in advance for any feedback.
Sincere greetings.

Leopold

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 19 Jul 2007, 16:13

I never saw Air One as a buyer. Aeroflot would have been more interested, I think.
Anyway no bids until 23rd of July means that the company will step on the red carpet towards bankruptcy.

Interesting for Brussels Airlines, they could have a bargain if they could buy a part of their fleet

Alitalia's got 12 A319-100
11 A320-200
23 A321-100

and 14 Embraer 145 LR
6 Embraer 170
10 ATR-72's

and 10 772-ER's (might be great for African routes)

The fleet is young and maintenance records quite ok.

Desert Rat · Post by **Desert Rat** » 19 Jul 2007, 16:24

What engine the 320's???

CFM???

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 19 Jul 2007, 16:34

Yeah CFM Int. engines on the A320 family

Desert Rat · Post by **Desert Rat** » 19 Jul 2007, 17:07

nowadays a second hand 320 worth as much as a brand new one.....

fcw · Post by **fcw** » 19 Jul 2007, 17:16

And the winner is: AIr France-KLM!
They always wanted Alitalia, now they will be able to buy it for less money and with less constaints.

ag894 · Post by **ag894** » 19 Jul 2007, 17:21

Yesterday I saw on tv some comments about this. What shocked me most was a graphic they showed with the share price in the last 10 years. In 1997 the share price was 22.5 Euros and yesterday it was at 0.7 Euros.

I fly quite often to/from Italy and I always avoid Alitalia. I choose them twice and both times I had problems: one time flight cancelled, and the other some strike and major delay.

The situation looks quite dramatic as Alitalia is lossing over 1 Meuro/day, and suffering from strikes quite often. Which at this point is bad for customers and good for the losses, everyday they are grounded they do not loss money and in addition they save something on salaries of workers following the strike.

I also heard that they have a number of airplanes grounded as they cannot maintain them fit for flying, so they can save or loss less (can someone confirm this point?).

My final comment is that if are to buy Alitalia with the conditions of maintaining the same number of workers under the same conditions and keep the exisitng routes it is quite obvious that you will carry on having the same (or similar) results. Therefore no one wants to buy without having the freedom to decide on the changes to make it profitable. I fully understand the position of Air One (Lufthansa) and previously Air France-KLM, and Aeroflot (.. and many more to come).

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 19 Jul 2007, 18:21

And the winner is: AIr France-KLM!
They always wanted Alitalia, now they will be able to buy it for less money and with less constaints.

No, Air France-KLM wants Iberia. They have no interest in Alitalia otherwise they would not have backed-up from the biddings.

nowadays a second hand 320 worth as much as a brand new one.....

Yeah prices are high but Alitalia has been selling its long-haul fleet of 747's at bargain-prices. I'd be relieved if Bruair could buy at least those 12 A319's and return some RJ's to the lessors.

fcw · Post by **fcw** » 19 Jul 2007, 19:14

FLY4HOURS.BE wrote:No, Air France-KLM wants Iberia. They have no interest in Alitalia otherwise they would not have backed-up from the biddings.

AF-KLM was not intrested because of the contraints that were put on the sale. Without constraints it is a different story!

ag894 · Post by **ag894** » 19 Jul 2007, 20:37

Right! Without the non-sense constraints there will be many interested.

Actually what airlines ask is more than reasonable, to be able to run it under the same criteria as other (successful) airlines are run. Otherwise it will continue dying slowly,as any manager cannot manage it but just administer it to death under the given constraints.

jan_olieslagers · Post by **jan_olieslagers** » 19 Jul 2007, 21:13

If today impossible demands are made by Italian government, it is because their unions want them to. As the situation gets more and more hopeless, sooner or later these unions will realise they are heading for disaster; but don't count on it anytime soon, these guys have tough heads. It seems to me that the Italian government is biding its time; as union pressure decreases the take-over should become more interesting for some airline or other. It is not a question of good conditions yes/no, it will be a stepwise evolution, until one day a good deal can be made.

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 20 Jul 2007, 14:31

Government confirms Alitalia will be liquidated if no serious buyer rises up...

http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1184840548.html

brieky · Post by **brieky** » 20 Jul 2007, 15:45

i've booked a trip with them(booked in april to fly in October)
BRU-MXP-PMI
PMI-MXP-BRU

Hope they will survive!

Ciao

Airbus330lover · Post by **Airbus330lover** » 20 Jul 2007, 15:49

brieky wrote:i've booked a trip with them(booked in april to fly in October)
BRU-MXP-PMI
PMI-MXP-BRU

Hope they will survive!

Ciao

Be optimist.... but i mean that you have to be more realist.
IMO bankrupt, liquidation or strike I let you the choice

brieky · Post by **brieky** » 20 Jul 2007, 15:55

ah... then i go for a strike @ MXP!

LX-LGX · Post by **LX-LGX** » 21 Jul 2007, 14:17

Italy and Belgium are the 2 only European countries where unions can do whatever they like, without being hold legally responsible. They've done so with Alitalia, by far airline strike Champion nr 1. The ongoing strikes have chased away both the public and serious investors (= not those who just want to take over their slots).

the take over value of a company is not only the value of the shares: it's what investors want to pay for it. But who wants to put money into a company, knowing for sure your investment is worthless because of forthcoming strikes?

The Italian governement will support AZ untill the European Commission says it's enough.

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 21 Jul 2007, 15:02

The European Comision already took the decision to prohibit Italian state aid to Alitalia, and it's already effective.

Post by **ElcoB** » 21 Jul 2007, 15:23

LX-LGX wrote:Italy and Belgium are the 2 only European countries where unions can do whatever they like, without being hold legally responsible.

Come on, very easy to repeat the mantra of the 'evil unions'

You already forgot the Sabena story? Who plundered what?
Indeed, private (Swiss) investors did it so enthusiastic ....well, they ended up convicted for violating the law.

Remember the union-actions from these Sabena story? Remember the spokeswoman?
Right, she is minister now (and will be in the next government).
Guess what: Belgium is still one of the richest countries in the world.

pressman · Post by **pressman** » 21 Jul 2007, 17:32

Guess what: Belgium is still one of the richest countries in the world.[/quote]

That may very well be correct , but one thing is damn sure , the ordinary belgian is not very well off at all , as a matter of fact I wouldn't get out of bed for what most ordinary belgians earn .