Brussels Airlines adventure in Africa

[tolipanebas]

Tolipanebas is right.

Thank you.

They want to serve more African destinations non-stop. What kind of aircraft could they use for that purpose? A319?

SN is silently looking for a 5th A330-300, but don't expect one arriving before early next year and the aim is to operate daily to the region of the great lakes with it to connect to the network of the New African company....

[Boeing767copilot]

I read something about the name of new company for the Africa operations: Pan African Airways. Can somebody comfirm this?

[SN30952]

But they want to serve more African destinations non-stop. What kind of aircraft could they use for that purpose? A319?

A rethorical question? Atlantis.
The answer, I suppose, is singaporian aircraft.
Q1
What as the last singaporian order?
Q2
What order did SALE* place exactly one year ago?
10 Boeing Next-Generation 737s, plus 10 options and 10 purchase rights.
Btw, in May 2005 SALE ordered already 20 such airplanes.
*Singapore Aircraft Leasing Enterprise (SALE)
10+10+10+20
What is the SIN-BRU about? Fleets indeed.
What aircraft will be shifted to the MRU financial base, that is indeed the question.

[SN30952]

I read something about the name of new company for the Africa operations: Pan African Airways. Can somebody comfirm this?

Pan African Airways is based in Nigeria.
Code PF
Give them a call?
Pan African Airlines Ltd.
Old Domestic Wing M/M Airport
PO Box 21054
Ikeja, Lagos Nigeria
+ 234 1 4963601

Sometimes mentioned as Airline, somtimes as Airways

[teach]

If SN's BAe 146s are to be shifted to the African operation, as seems to be the plan, what will replace them in Europe? More Avros?

[Airbus330lover]

But they want to serve more African destinations non-stop. What kind of aircraft could they use for that purpose? A319?

A rethorical question? Atlantis.
The answer, I suppose, is singaporian aircraft.
Q1
What as the last singaporian order?
Q2
What order did SALE* place exactly one year ago?
10 Boeing Next-Generation 737s, plus 10 options and 10 purchase rights.
Btw, in May 2005 SALE ordered already 20 such airplanes.
*Singapore Aircraft Leasing Enterprise (SALE)
10+10+10+20
What is the SIN-BRU about? Fleets indeed.
What aircraft will be shifted to the MRU financial base, that is indeed the question.

Are you dreaming?

[SN30952]

10 Boeing Next-Generation 737s, plus 10 options and 10 purchase rights.
Are you dreaming?

10 Boeing Next-Generation 737s, plus 10 options and 10 purchase rights.
Boeing must be dreaming?

[fcw]

If SN's BAe 146s are to be shifted to the African operation, as seems to be the plan, what will replace them in Europe? More Avros?

Nothing will replace them! BruAir is loosing money on almost all of its european routes. The plan for axing the 6 old Bae146 exits for a long time, now they are going to use them to create small hubs in EBB, KGL, BJM, ...

[Established02]

If SN's BAe 146s are to be shifted to the African operation, as seems to be the plan, what will replace them in Europe? More Avros?

Nothing will replace them!

Hmmm... really? 6 aircraft do generate a lot of production. Taking these 146's out without replacing them would result in putting the axe on multiple destinations. Which ones would you put on death row?

[FLY4HOURS.BE]

Maybe SN will move its whole operational HQ from Brussels to Mauritius on a long-term?
They can keep the name and the regs here and pay taxes there.

Interesting times thanks to our hope-giving national carrier!!

[FLY4HOURS.BE]

And I think that putting the Avro's in Africa is a wise choice.

Avro's are expensive aircraft to operate and are mainly specialised for STOL operation, not for the big luxurious RWY's we have here in Europe.

Moreover, the high operational costs they have here in Europe are mainly generated by the highly taxed fuel prices, which are alot lower in Africa.

About their replacement here in BRU?
Well, wasn't there any rumors about the SSJ(Sukhoi Super Jet) some time around?

Greets

[Stij]

Maybe a stupid question, but when you base your company in Mauritus, is your company entitled to traffic rights between Rwanda and Kenya for instance. I mean, do Mauritian Airliners have 7th freedom rights between third party African countries?

Cheers,

Stij

[fcw]

Maybe SN will move its whole operational HQ from Brussels to Mauritius on a long-term?
They can keep the name and the regs here and pay taxes there.

Interesting times thanks to our hope-giving national carrier!!

Keep on dreaming, one office or regs in belgium means tax in Belgium!

[fcw]

And I think that putting the Avro's in Africa is a wise choice.

Moreover, the high operational costs they have here in Europe are mainly generated by the highly taxed fuel prices, which are alot lower in Africa.

Greets

How do you explain that some of the A330 take max fuel in BRU to fuel less in Africa?

[sn26567]

How do you explain that some of the A330 take max fuel in BRU to fuel less in Africa?

Indeed aviation fuel is tax-free in most Euroepan countries (at least for international flights) and less costly to produce than in Africa.

[A390]

Main reason to choose Mauritius for the headquarters is the political stability of this country. This enables reasonable insurance rates, avoids "state" interventions (....) unwanted in a commercial environment and gives confidence to aircraft lessors. Just try to convince a lessor to put one of its aircraft on a central african countries' register: good luck!
JAR standards have little or nothing to do with this, as the new airline will just have to fulfill the standards set by the country where the AOC is . However it could give the passengers a reassurance as to minimum safety standards.

[spotter1102]

I think Brussels Airlines should keep their A319 in BRU and send in Mauritius some 737s

[kglapt]

SN needs to wake up!!! !!! The BAe will never make money for them in East Africa. First and foremost, the region is highly competitive due to the modern fleet of KQ, ET and SAA. Therefore passengers have to choose between the BAEs and B737NG(ET,KQ) and A319s (SAA). Secondly, We Africans like to carry lots of luggage hence most airlines in Africa will allow 35-40kgs of free luggage, not to mention the amount of cargo that is moved within the East Africa. By the way Rwanda and Burundi are now considered as part and parcel of East Africa.
Thirdly, the established carriers in the region (KQ,ET and SAA) are already serving ALL the available routes properly, so what new routes will SN operate? KGL-NBO, KGL-BJM, KGL-ADDIS,EBB-ADDIS, EBB-NBO, BJM-NBO are already saturated!!! KQ and ET serve these routes on a daily (or more) basis!!

In my view, The Rwanda Govt will NOT accept a proposal from SN until they change their offer from BAEs to a bigger AC.eg B737-300, A320,A319 etc.
Our country is landlocked, the only way to move goods is by roads through Uganda and into Kenya or by air. Hence Air is the more preferred mode of transport. The government knows that and SN needs to also realise that the reason why their offer was not accepted at first was because of the BAEs.

All the same, I hope SN management wakes up soon before MERIDIANA tables a better proposal for Rwandair.

[tolipanebas]

The Rwanda Govt will NOT accept a proposal from SN until they change their offer from BAEs to a bigger AC.eg B737-300, A320,A319 etc.

Who says it Sn is still aiming purely at Rwanda???

Last thing I've heard was that Burundi is very acceptable to the proposals of SN too and is extremely cooperative when it comes to giving the project all possible collaboration.

After all: they have come to understand it is far better to have a small but decently run home carrier, than no carrier at all like the Rwandeese are risking...

Let's draw the lines CLEARLY for once and for all:

the project SN is planning on consist of relocating a small number of BAe146s to an airport in East Africa to set up a local hub overthere, preferably with the collaboration of the domestic (defunct) 'national' carrier and to serve the hub daily from BRU with A330.

It really is a take it or leave it offer, meaning the country of choice needn't try to change the original project into something bigger, costlier etc as SN will NOT change its plan nor the envisaged fleet composition (as Camair has learned the hard way....).

The plan might be of limited impact indeed, but it is a clear-cut and feasable plan which is ready to be implemented within a few months if a host nation is found and has a high degree of success due to the daily feeder from BRU.

Rwandeese should stop dreaming: they are a poor country, with no airline of their own and they now have the chance to get one for almost free... Better than ask for a bigger and newer fleet, why not work hard so the new carrier can soon outgrow its small fleet of regional jets and be forced to buy new and bigger planes... Remember that in a market driven airline, fleet decisions are based on actual needs, NOT prestige.

Burundi seems to have understood it....

[blackbox]

Let's face it: the fleet is a weak point of SN. I know people avoiding SN because they don't want to end up in thos BAEs/Avro's...