BRU Summer 2007: what to expect - new routes, frequencies

[Atlantis]

Strange because flights are doing well. Maybe an other reason??

What is your source to conclude that Hainan is doing well on BRU-PEK, assuming that you don't have access to Hainan's business performane stats?

So, this means that YOU have all the current information? So, give it to us.

[EBBR_Based]

Strange because flights are doing well. Maybe an other reason??

What is your source to conclude that Hainan is doing well on BRU-PEK, assuming that you don't have access to Hainan's business performane stats?

So, this means that YOU have all the current information? So, give it to us.

Where exactly did I state that I have access to Hainan's business performance info? I only asked whether YOU have access to this kind of confidential information, as you seem to be convinced that Hainan is doing well on BRU-PEK (which would be excellent news, by the way!).

So once again: on which info do you base yourself to conclude that Hainan is doing well on BRU-PEK?

[Atlantis]

After successive good news for BRU this year, here is a less pleasant news: starting June 12 Hainan Airlines will stop flying to PEK every Tuesday. After starting this route less than a year ago, HU will fly to BRU only three times weekly this summer.

http://www.brusselsairport.be/en/contac ... _b/beijing

Another proof that it's hard to create new long-haul routes from BRU but even harder to keep them profitable...

Maybe this can be the reason. Ethiopian is going to lease an other B767-300ER and this time from Hainan Airlines, B2561 EX SOBELAIR OO-SLR.
This means that Hainan's fleet of long haul is going to decrease from 5 to 4.

I think that this is the reason to cut in the existing timetables.

PS: the B2561 is already wearing its ET colors but still have its B-immatriculation.

[EBBR_Based]

Maybe this can be the reason. Ethiopian is going to lease an other B767-300ER and this time from Hainan Airlines, B2561 EX SOBELAIR OO-SLR.
This means that Hainan's fleet of long haul is going to decrease from 5 to 4.

I think that this is the reason to cut in the existing timetables.

PS: the B2561 is already wearing its ET colors but still have its B-immatriculation.

Correction: this particular aircraft never operated to Brussels (with the exception of a handful flights for operational reasons). B-2490/1/2 are the only B767-300s in Hainan's fleet with the C/Y configuration, so the Brussels operations are limited to those three aircraft.

The 2 former SLR aircraft fly in a full-Economy configuration (used to operate for example the PEK-BUD link).

[OrientThai]

Here is another good news for BRU (less for Bruair...): Sky Europe is upgrading its current routes out of BRU:
BRU-VIE is going to get a second daily flight (one in the morning and one in the evening).
BRU-PRG and BRU-BUD are becoming daily.

Sky Europe in the longer run wants to open a new base here in BRU and is planning to base two B737s.
BRU is really getting a nice amount of low-cost traffic with recent announcement coming from EasyJet, Sterling Airlines...

[teach]

BRU-VIE is going to get a second daily flight (one in the morning and one in the evening).
BRU-PRG and BRU-BUD are becoming daily.

Any idea when this will happen?

[Atlantis]

Here is another good news for BRU (less for Bruair...): Sky Europe is upgrading its current routes out of BRU:
BRU-VIE is going to get a second daily flight (one in the morning and one in the evening).
BRU-PRG and BRU-BUD are becoming daily.

Sky Europe in the longer run wants to open a new base here in BRU and is planning to base two B737s.
BRU is really getting a nice amount of low-cost traffic with recent announcement coming from EasyJet, Sterling Airlines...

This is fast, less then two months after starting up these routes out of Bru. Indeed very good news and good news for pax.

[spotter1102]

I hope that the 2 planes will be beautiful Boeing 737-700s with nice winglets

[sn26567]

BRU-VIE is going to get a second daily flight (one in the morning and one in the evening).
BRU-PRG and BRU-BUD are becoming daily.

Any idea when this will happen?

End of October or early November: https://www.aviation24.be/modules.php?name ... &sid=14203

[EBBR_Based]

Indeed very good news and good news for pax.

Not to pick on you, Atlantis, but I fail to see the positive side of this doomed expansion.

SkyEurope is a heavily loss-making airline, with barely enough money to fly in the next few months.

In the short term it might be positive for the ticket prices indeed, but in the long term they are just destroying the market.

At some point they will either have to charge higher fares or will just go bust. Even if they reach that point in Fall 2007, they will have had enough time to destroy the market for the serious players.

[airazurxtror]

Here is another good news for BRU (less for Bruair...): Sky Europe is upgrading its current routes out of BRU:
BRU-VIE is going to get a second daily flight (one in the morning and one in the evening).

Sky Europe in the longer run wants to open a new base here in BRU

Fantastic ! The sooner, the better ...

[fcw]

Indeed very good news and good news for pax.

Not to pick on you, Atlantis, but I fail to see the positive side of this doomed expansion.

SkyEurope is a heavily loss-making airline, with barely enough money to fly in the next few months.

In the short term it might be positive for the ticket prices indeed, but in the long term they are just destroying the market.

At some point they will either have to charge higher fares or will just go bust. Even if they reach that point in Fall 2007, they will have had enough time to destroy the market for the serious players.

Why would it destroy the market? They are trying to survive by all means. Not sure if they will though, but in the mean time pax can only benefit. BruAir might not like it, but this is what you call competition!
According to your logic BruAir should pull out of a lot of lossmaking european routes as well...
The low fare war has only just begun. The big ones, Ryan and Easy, smell blood. Those who will follow the fare war will suffer losses, the others will loose marketshare. I am afraid we will see a couple of airlines go bust this year...

[Atlantis]

SkyEurope is a heavily loss-making airline, with barely enough money to fly in the next few months.

That's indeed true and that's also the discussion for years on this forum. "Skyeurope is loss-making and will go bankrupt in a few months".
Till today they are still flying and buy new aircraft's. The winners are the pax and its good for competition. For years we have asked for this action and now we got this, some LCC on Brussels Airport, you say that they destroy the market. They also fly to other destinations, are they also destroy the market over there????

Why always negative when it is about Brussels Airport and airlines who have plans with this airport. I don't get it.

[Established02]

Why would it destroy the market?

Same question over here, EBBR_Based.

Do you perhaps have an illustration of how the entry of SkyEurope or another (LCC) carrier has ever "destroyed" a market?

Obviously Brussels Airport is not worried that NE may destroy an existing market, otherwise they would have kept the BRU gates closed for NE.

At the contrary, I believe markets are getting stimulated by the entry of new (LCC) airlines, especially when they all turn out to be dumping capacity at symbolic fares. Even if NE would pull out of BRU after 6 months, I would expect that the volume on BRU-BUD, BRU-PRG, BRU-VIE will then not drop again below the volume in pre-NE times.

Of course, NE's ambitions are a major headache for the established guys (SN, OK, MA, OS...), whose yields are coming under growing pressure.

Would it be any difference if not NE, but FR or U2 or AB would have announced the same plans today? Perhaps it's better for SN & Co that NE is the challenger this time and not U2. Dealing with NE now may be a good exercise for the established carriers in preparation for the real challenge (later on anyway?) in having to face up to FR/U2/AB...! 8)

Perhaps NE may indeed be running out of gas soon, but despite of this they're certainly brilliant in creating and maintaining a positive perception in the eyes of the public. Their shiny, brand new aircraft only seem to suggest success from A to Z.

[EBBR_Based]

According to your logic BruAir should pull out of a lot of lossmaking european routes as well...

You need to look at the general picture: BruAir is still a profitable airline. Having a loss-making EU-route in the network might even make sense for BruAir, if there is a strategic reason behind it (for example to guarantee connections for Africa passengers).

Do you perhaps have an illustration of how the entry of SkyEurope or another (LCC) carrier has ever "destroyed" a market?

Let me explain "destroying a market". SkyEurope never made a single € in the past. They are operationally loss-making. This means that the revenues they get out of each flight even do not cover operating cost. Their strategy until now has always been to dump low fares on the market. I have nothing against competition and low-cost carriers at Brussels Airport (it's up to BruAir to react and in the end only the strongest carriers will survive), but in the case of SkyEurope we talk about an airline throwing fares on the market while even the operating cost is not met. This is exactly the point: other (serious) airlines CAN'T compete, unless they start with the same dubious practice of operating with a structural loss.

In some cases you can justify to operate with a structural loss, but not in the case of SkyEurope. Except for BRU-KRK, they are launching routes out of BRU where you already have established carriers (= an existing market). I do not believe that the market will attract an additional 600 passengers between BRU and VIE (which is about the daily capacity they will offer when they go double daily).

especially when they all turn out to be dumping capacity at symbolic fares

SkyEurope is always announcing loadfactors in the press. An 80% loadfactor out of Brussels on existing markets is easy to achieve if you are dumping ticket prices. It is only a question of how long this will last because once again, at some point, they will have to change their strategy.

Would it be any difference if not NE, but FR or U2 or AB would have announced the same plans today?

Yes, because the three airlines you specified are profitable and established carriers. They might have their reasons to start flying to/from BRU, and I can only support their plans because at the end of the year, they will again be able to present a nice overall profit.

Not so for SkyEurope. Either they dramatically change their business model, or they go bust.

[airbuske]

Virgin Express was flying weekly to Murcia.
Is Murcia now only a summer destination?

I was looking for flights in September but I coudn't find.

[brieky]

thats what i found about flights to murcia ex BRU


Vluchtnummer Dagen Vertrek Aankomst Vliegtuigtype Geldigheid
JAF1483 1------ 13.25 u 16.00 u 737 0204-2210
JAF6501 -----6- 13.30 u 16.05 u 737 3103-2710
JAF4567 ---4--- 14.15 u 16.50 u 737 0504-2510
SN3759 -----6- 17.05 u 19.50 u 737 3006-0109


Lijnvluchten van Murcia (MJV) naar Brussel (BRU)

Vluchtnummer Dagen Vertrek Aankomst Vliegtuigtype Geldigheid
JAF1484 1------ 16.50 u 19.20 u 737 0204-2210
JAF6502 -----6- 16.50 u 19.20 u 737 3103-2710
JAF4568 ---4--- 17.35 u 20.10 u 737 0504-2510
SN3760 -----6- 20.30 u 23.25 u 737 3006-0109



Greetz Brieky

you can check it @ www.brusselsairport.be

[airbuske]

Thx brieky.

So I will have to book a Jetairfly flight

[brieky]

hello, these are the formal VEX-flights but is now Brussels airlines

SN3759 -----6- 17.05 u 19.50 u 737 3006-0109 BRU-MJV

SN3760 -----6- 20.30 u 23.25 u 737 3006-0109 MJV-BRU


greetz

[airazurxtror]

SkyEurope never made a single € in the past. They are operationally loss-making. This means that the revenues they get out of each flight even do not cover operating cost. Their strategy until now has always been to dump low fares on the market. I have nothing against competition and low-cost carriers at Brussels Airport (it's up to BruAir to react and in the end only the strongest carriers will survive), but in the case of SkyEurope we talk about an airline throwing fares on the market while even the operating cost is not met. This is exactly the point: other (serious) airlines CAN'T compete, unless they start with the same dubious practice of operating with a structural loss.

These are serious allegations. Are they proven ? One has been hearing them for many months, if not years.
Anyway, as a passenger, it doesn't concern me - as long as I can grab cheap tickets, by any company, I don't care about the rest.
Let them manage their operational loss, if any !
Let us enjoy their low fares whilst it lasts !
And if they fail, let's hope another one will try and take their place ...