I can't wait for it!
I'll be happy even with a GBP200 return fare, considering it costs around twice as much to cross the Atlantic
flyglobespan have been advertising fares starting GBP100 each way from Liverpool to JFK, flying 767s starting this May.
Also, if the open skies agreement does go ahead, i don't think airlines (including Ryanair) will wait for either 787 or A350. Plenty of A330s, 767s and 777s to do the job right away.
Lastly, I just have to say that the LCCs here, they're not even that bad. The ridiculous offers, they do increase by well over 100%, but still work out cheaper than traditional carriers most of the times.They're not excellent, no, but you do get what you've paid for.
[/list][/code]
Ryanair to go long-haul
Moderator: Latest news team
Nigel Dennis, Head of the Air Transport Unit of the Transport Studies Group (Westminster University), doens't believe it will work.
1. carriers on long haul routes use their fleet almost 24h/24. Thus no advantage for a better use of planes by Ryanair (advantage Ryanair now has in Europe).
2. hubs are outmost important, as long hauls very often are followed by a short flight. Ryanair will not (cannot) use hubs, so no connections either.
3. same applies for the hub as feeder for the long haul.
4. no inflight entertainment will not hold on long haul. My comment: trust crew on long haul will confirm that movies are great, because they keep the pax quite, calm, happy and ... in their seats. If Ryanair will charge for this service, pax will bring their own DVD-player with them or will walk around.
5. business class and first class pax bring in the money. They make it possible for an airline to offer economy class.
6. pitch is a real problem for long haul, and Ryanair's leg space will not hold on transatlantic flights. My comment: let's not underestimate this feeling among the public: they know leg space can be fatal on long haul (the few court cases by relatives of pax, because of the Economy Class Syndrome, made headlines all over).
7. it's not that obvious that pax will pay for food and/or drinks, specially not because they know that their dinner will be more expensive then their ticket. Thus: bring your own food...
8. transatlantic flights are only profitable with pax + cargo. Ryanair has no experience/facilities for cargo.
After reading this on l-n.nl, I'm quite curious to find out if the journalist from Flight Global had a real interview with O'Leary. I'm afraid however it will just be a one way conversation by O'Leary.
1. carriers on long haul routes use their fleet almost 24h/24. Thus no advantage for a better use of planes by Ryanair (advantage Ryanair now has in Europe).
2. hubs are outmost important, as long hauls very often are followed by a short flight. Ryanair will not (cannot) use hubs, so no connections either.
3. same applies for the hub as feeder for the long haul.
4. no inflight entertainment will not hold on long haul. My comment: trust crew on long haul will confirm that movies are great, because they keep the pax quite, calm, happy and ... in their seats. If Ryanair will charge for this service, pax will bring their own DVD-player with them or will walk around.
5. business class and first class pax bring in the money. They make it possible for an airline to offer economy class.
6. pitch is a real problem for long haul, and Ryanair's leg space will not hold on transatlantic flights. My comment: let's not underestimate this feeling among the public: they know leg space can be fatal on long haul (the few court cases by relatives of pax, because of the Economy Class Syndrome, made headlines all over).
7. it's not that obvious that pax will pay for food and/or drinks, specially not because they know that their dinner will be more expensive then their ticket. Thus: bring your own food...
8. transatlantic flights are only profitable with pax + cargo. Ryanair has no experience/facilities for cargo.
After reading this on l-n.nl, I'm quite curious to find out if the journalist from Flight Global had a real interview with O'Leary. I'm afraid however it will just be a one way conversation by O'Leary.
Only few people now this but actually you should only loose the 15 euro's as the 60 euro's is - as the words explain it well - a value added tax. If for some reason, your flight is cancelled or whatsoever: you loose the ticketprice, not the taxes! You are entitled to claim back the VAT from the airline and they are obliged to refund it to you. Offcourse airlines are careful in communicating this as it is a huge source of income (imagine the margin on that non-executed flightLX-LGX wrote: Will people still book months in advance, knowing that they will not only loose the 15 euro's from the ticket, but also the 60 euro's from the taxes?
)I'm just reading a book on yield management and price setting in the airline industry and although I already knew that transparency is just a hollow word in the airline industry, what I read in that book just beats everything. Title of the book is 'U betaalt nog steeds te veel voor uw vliegreizen'...I'll look up the details when I get home.
regards,
bAIR
I have some comments to make.
First, don't forget the taxes to the States are now way way over 100€. Many airlines are offering hot deals to the US for like 325€ which used to be 250€ but with the taxes that are now about 150-180€, even with very low fares, the ticket would hardly be cheaper than the offers from the regular airlines.
Then, Ryanair do not use their planes 24h a day, as LX-LGH writes in his point 1 so it would be an advantage comparing to the current situation.
Last but not least, Ryanair refunds 100% when they cancel the flights (even when it's a case of force majeure such as fog or a strike) or offer a free exchange to any available flight (not at the same fare, if there is space).
But concerning flights I did not take for personal reasons, I was never able to get the taxes back, can someone please tell me how to do so ???
Thanks
First, don't forget the taxes to the States are now way way over 100€. Many airlines are offering hot deals to the US for like 325€ which used to be 250€ but with the taxes that are now about 150-180€, even with very low fares, the ticket would hardly be cheaper than the offers from the regular airlines.
Then, Ryanair do not use their planes 24h a day, as LX-LGH writes in his point 1 so it would be an advantage comparing to the current situation.
Last but not least, Ryanair refunds 100% when they cancel the flights (even when it's a case of force majeure such as fog or a strike) or offer a free exchange to any available flight (not at the same fare, if there is space).
But concerning flights I did not take for personal reasons, I was never able to get the taxes back, can someone please tell me how to do so ???
Thanks
-
airazurxtror
- Posts: 3769
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 00:00
That university teacher thinks he knows more about LCC than MOL. Some cheek !LX-LGX wrote:Nigel Dennis, Head of the Air Transport Unit of the Transport Studies Group (Westminster University), doens't believe it will work.
Let's remember that there has already been a successful transatlantic LCC : the Skytrain set up by Freddie Laker.
Skytrain was forced to stop because of scandalously unfair practices of BA, Pan Am and others big carriers. Freddie Laker "sued the bastards" and eventually got a substantial out-of-court settlement - but it was too late for Skytrain.
A transatlantic or other long-haul LCC is thus not unthinkable. Things have changes since Skytrain; but the fear of the established carriers is still the same.
-
sn-remember
- Posts: 848
- Joined: 13 Sep 2004, 00:00
- Location: Jodoigne/Geldenaken
- Contact:
Not convincing to me...LX-LGX wrote:Nigel Dennis, Head of the Air Transport Unit of the Transport Studies Group (Westminster University), doens't believe it will work.
1. carriers on long haul routes use their fleet almost 24h/24. Thus no advantage for a better use of planes by Ryanair (advantage Ryanair now has in Europe).
2. hubs are outmost important, as long hauls very often are followed by a short flight. Ryanair will not (cannot) use hubs, so no connections either.
3. same applies for the hub as feeder for the long haul.
4. no inflight entertainment will not hold on long haul. My comment: trust crew on long haul will confirm that movies are great, because they keep the pax quite, calm, happy and ... in their seats. If Ryanair will charge for this service, pax will bring their own DVD-player with them or will walk around.
5. business class and first class pax bring in the money. They make it possible for an airline to offer economy class.
6. pitch is a real problem for long haul, and Ryanair's leg space will not hold on transatlantic flights. My comment: let's not underestimate this feeling among the public: they know leg space can be fatal on long haul (the few court cases by relatives of pax, because of the Economy Class Syndrome, made headlines all over).
7. it's not that obvious that pax will pay for food and/or drinks, specially not because they know that their dinner will be more expensive then their ticket. Thus: bring your own food...
8. transatlantic flights are only profitable with pax + cargo. Ryanair has no experience/facilities for cargo.
Pt 1: It's similar.
FR fleet spends the night on the tarmac most of the time.
It might be a better utilization if they had fleet commonality using the same a/c on short and long hauls. (20h00 departures from EU, 23h30 departure from US)
Pts2/3 : I see that the american LCC JetBlue implements their 3 main hubs at BOS, NYK, IAD which are premium hubs.
I am confident FR can serve 2ndary airports as well also using the B737ER or B787/A350 ngn a/C.
Pt 4. Flight duration 8/9 hrs. Not sooo long IMO.
Pt 5. FR proved this theory wrong long ago however using the B737.
Pt 6. Maybe. It's true that the B787/A350 can offer better confort and revenue than the B737.
Pt 7. What's the problem ?
Pt 8. FR might prove this wrong again. Depends on the type of a/c used.
I bet the ticket price would be around 200 euro one way.
Wondering if the american LCCs will stay passive though.
Could some of them be mature enough to venture on the North Atlantic ?
Take this to the bank------
This will not work. The established players in the transatlantic market will literally kill RyanAir. They will match and or undercut RyanAir fares while offering more service. They will do this successfully because of the massive cargo operations they have going across the Atlantic. It will be an uphill and extremely hard battle for RyanAir to fight and win.
As far as flying a 737 across the Atlantic successfully and profitably, please stop smoking the "funny" cigarettes. That will not happen. Given the choice of a spacious widebody jet over a 737, for the same ticket price with more service, which do you think the passengers will choose?
This will not work. The established players in the transatlantic market will literally kill RyanAir. They will match and or undercut RyanAir fares while offering more service. They will do this successfully because of the massive cargo operations they have going across the Atlantic. It will be an uphill and extremely hard battle for RyanAir to fight and win.
As far as flying a 737 across the Atlantic successfully and profitably, please stop smoking the "funny" cigarettes. That will not happen. Given the choice of a spacious widebody jet over a 737, for the same ticket price with more service, which do you think the passengers will choose?
Theres nothing better than slow cooked fall off the bone BBQ, Texas style
-
Airbus330lover
- Posts: 883
- Joined: 21 Jul 2005, 00:00
- Location: Rixensart
A détail....Acid-drop wrote:"they will never walk on the moon" ....
I dont believe in such cheap tickets either, but a europe-NY for 200 euro would be already fantastic !
i'm not an expert, but i dont see why flying from dublin to NY is harder than flying from oslo to casablanca. (but again, i'm not an expert).
Crew must have a certain delay between flights....
Lodging crew cost a lot... but MOL can hire a caravan..... lot cheaper
-
smokejumper
- Posts: 1033
- Joined: 21 Oct 2005, 00:00
- Location: Northern Virginia USA
Interesting posts and good thoughts!
But you know, ingenious people almost always find a way to do something that I think is not possible. Laker did indeed establish Skytrain against high odds (although he faced competition and eventually failed), airfares have come down (although the $49 Braniff one-way tran-Atlantic fare mentioned above probably contributed to their demise) and, a number of airlines that I thought were goners have emerged from bankrupcy. Perhaps Ryan will deveop a profitable marketing strategy to be a LCC on the Atlantic with little cargo; he is a gifted businessman.
For most flights, most leisure travelers use price as a prime determinant in selecting a flight or airline. When I travel on business to Europe and my employer is paying, I generally fly upgraded classes, but when I travel for vacation, I go cheap. Several months ago, I flew from Washington DC to London on vacation. I flew BA coach; it was not the most comfortable, but I saved me quite a bit of money.
For 7-8 hours, I can put up with being cramped, if I save enough.
But you know, ingenious people almost always find a way to do something that I think is not possible. Laker did indeed establish Skytrain against high odds (although he faced competition and eventually failed), airfares have come down (although the $49 Braniff one-way tran-Atlantic fare mentioned above probably contributed to their demise) and, a number of airlines that I thought were goners have emerged from bankrupcy. Perhaps Ryan will deveop a profitable marketing strategy to be a LCC on the Atlantic with little cargo; he is a gifted businessman.
For most flights, most leisure travelers use price as a prime determinant in selecting a flight or airline. When I travel on business to Europe and my employer is paying, I generally fly upgraded classes, but when I travel for vacation, I go cheap. Several months ago, I flew from Washington DC to London on vacation. I flew BA coach; it was not the most comfortable, but I saved me quite a bit of money.
For 7-8 hours, I can put up with being cramped, if I save enough.
-
airazurxtror
- Posts: 3769
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 00:00
"Flight International", 14-23 april 2007, gives more informations (page 6) about the long-haul plans set by Ryanair.
The venture will be launched at the turn of the decade.
It will be a budget airline with a no-frills service, offering one-way fares from 12 USD, but with a premium cabin for business travellers.
It will be run independently of Ryanair,but connect the Ryanair 23 European bases with half a dozen secondary airports in the USA.
In the past, Michaël O'Leary had dismissed the idea of going long-haul. But the introduction of open skies has changed his mind.
According to Andrew Lobbenberg, an analyst with ABN-AMRO : "Such a venture would be negtive news for network carriers, with Air France and Lufthansa most obviously threatened. Network airlines have high overheads, restricted working practices and high social costs. New start-up carriers can benefit from substantial labour and overhead cost advantage, and point-to-point operation simplify things."
As with Ryanair, O'Leary expects big ancillary sales : movies, food and drinks, duty-free and merchandising, to make an average of 50 USD per passenger.
On the other hand, there is still the possibility that O'Leary is just "mischief-making" at the time when a competition policy ruling is imminent, about his bid for Aer Lingus...
The venture will be launched at the turn of the decade.
It will be a budget airline with a no-frills service, offering one-way fares from 12 USD, but with a premium cabin for business travellers.
It will be run independently of Ryanair,but connect the Ryanair 23 European bases with half a dozen secondary airports in the USA.
In the past, Michaël O'Leary had dismissed the idea of going long-haul. But the introduction of open skies has changed his mind.
According to Andrew Lobbenberg, an analyst with ABN-AMRO : "Such a venture would be negtive news for network carriers, with Air France and Lufthansa most obviously threatened. Network airlines have high overheads, restricted working practices and high social costs. New start-up carriers can benefit from substantial labour and overhead cost advantage, and point-to-point operation simplify things."
As with Ryanair, O'Leary expects big ancillary sales : movies, food and drinks, duty-free and merchandising, to make an average of 50 USD per passenger.
On the other hand, there is still the possibility that O'Leary is just "mischief-making" at the time when a competition policy ruling is imminent, about his bid for Aer Lingus...
Last edited by airazurxtror on 18 Apr 2007, 18:53, edited 1 time in total.
I will believe this when i see it. If it happens, the employees need to tar and feather the idiot that implemented it for it is doomed to fail.airazurxtror wrote:"Flight International", 14-23 april 2007, gives more informations (page 6) about the long-haul plans set by Ryanair.
The venture will be launched at the turn of the decade.
It will be a budget airline with a no-frills service, offering one-way fares from 12 USD, but with a premium cabin for business travellers.
It will be run independently of Ryanair,but connect Ryanair the 23 European bases with half a dozen secondary airports in the USA.
In the past, Michaël O'Leary had dismissed the idea of going long-haul. But the introduction of open skies has changed his mind.
According to Andrew Lobbenberg, an analyst with ABN-AMRO : "Such a venture would be negtive news for network carriers, with Air France and Lufthansa most obviously threatened. Network airlines have high overheads, restricted working practices and high social costs. New start-up carriers can benefit from sustantial labour and overhead cost advantage, and point-to-point operation simplify things."
As with Ryanair, O'Leary expects big ancillary sales : movies, food and drinks, duty-free and merchandising, to make an average of 50 USD per passenger.
On the other hand, there is still the possibility that O'Leary is just "mischief-making" at the time when a competition policy ruling is imminent, about his bid for Aer Lingus...
Theres nothing better than slow cooked fall off the bone BBQ, Texas style