OO-TUC stuck in Dominican Republic.

gliding-glider · Post by **gliding-glider** » 04 Jan 2007, 20:29

Dear all,

It’s so easy to shoot on the tour operator / airline c.q. Jetair and their airline company in regard to the unfortunate AOG of the OO-TUC.

I can and do strongly understand their position, having spent myself lot's of years in the airline business and having encountered, unfortunately, the same experience in the past.

In the heaviest period of travelling (taking into account that a lot of EU aircraft are on Wet-Lease for the Hadj travelling), it's almost impossible to find suitable Long-Haul replacement aircraft.

Bear also in mind that EU / JAR doesn't allow any aircraft/airline company not screened nor having their AOC within a member state of the EU, to be leased in, even on short term. BCAA have their strong (on which I agree) reglementation on this.

I do feel sorry for all those pax who looked forward to a well deserved vacation, but on the other hand, the TO kept them well informed and compensated them very seriously (although I do understand the disappointment of those pax).

That's aviation .... and safety before everything.

kind regards,

Jense · Post by **Jense** » 04 Jan 2007, 20:32

Robin_Bamps wrote:I know which carrier I'll choose if I'll once fly to the Caribbean !)

Yeah, you know that Robin. But not those hundreds of tourists who don't give a damn about the plane they'll travel in (wich is normal, if you aren't an enthousiast).

BRANCOCALIENTE · Post by **BRANCOCALIENTE** » 04 Jan 2007, 20:33

Don't be so positive about MP (Martinair),they have also sometimes some big problems and delays, a few weeks ago Thomas Cook pax on long haul flight had also the oportunity to enjoy a wonderful stay in BRU Sheraton but media did not talk about this.

ONE belgian long haul charter company working for both T.O. TUI/THOMAS COOK and employing belgian staff 'd be the best solution...

Why TUI/THOMAS COOK don't try to work together to avoid such problems?

Mirror · Post by **Mirror** » 04 Jan 2007, 20:44

Can be but jetair is the topper on long haul delays in Belgium...

U garantie voor een droomvakantie ?

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 04 Jan 2007, 20:55

It was on the news this evening and the topper was that the person in charge said that Jetair is only looking for a European replace aircraft and that they don't want to pay more then their own airplane. If you say this to the pax they lynch the man.

Also the Vereniging van Vlaamse Reisbureaus says that Jetair's reaction is very unprofessional specialy when they speak about the replace aircraft.

This is a very good example about the very big touristic competition in Belgium and this is also the reason why they can't "buy" a second long haul aircraft or one good one. Competition with Thomas Cook is hard.

airDD · Post by **airDD** » 04 Jan 2007, 21:53

Isn't Jetair part of TUI and doesnt TUI have other EU planes available?

airDD

Flying-Belgian · Post by **Flying-Belgian** » 04 Jan 2007, 22:27

gliding-glider wrote:Dear all,

It’s so easy to shoot on the tour operator / airline c.q. Jetair and their airline company in regard to the unfortunate AOG of the OO-TUC.

I can and do strongly understand their position, having spent myself lot's of years in the airline business and having encountered, unfortunately, the same experience in the past.

In the heaviest period of travelling (taking into account that a lot of EU aircraft are on Wet-Lease for the Hadj travelling), it's almost impossible to find suitable Long-Haul replacement aircraft.

Bear also in mind that EU / JAR doesn't allow any aircraft/airline company not screened nor having their AOC within a member state of the EU, to be leased in, even on short term. BCAA have their strong (on which I agree) reglementation on this.

I do feel sorry for all those pax who looked forward to a well deserved vacation, but on the other hand, the TO kept them well informed and compensated them very seriously (although I do understand the disappointment of those pax).

That's aviation .... and safety before everything.

kind regards,

Call this like you want, I summarize this story as the story of AMATEURISM and nothing else.

I hope JAF will be punished for this. Some of JAF senior staff were stronger to shoot at Sobelair in its back a few years ago than to run an airline with single obsolete aircraft that no one would like to operate.

FB.

Depretair · Post by **Depretair** » 04 Jan 2007, 22:28

Hello Camel,

You speak in your answer about "SLR-SLS-SLT-IHV " that Sobelair could provide in case of problems.
What are those "SLR-SLS-SLT-IHV"?

Thanks a lot for the answer,

Olivier.

Flying-Belgian · Post by **Flying-Belgian** » 04 Jan 2007, 22:37

Depretair wrote:Hello Camel,

You speak in your answer about "SLR-SLS-SLT-IHV " that Sobelair could provide in case of problems.
What are those "SLR-SLS-SLT-IHV"?

Thanks a lot for the answer,

Olivier.

OO-SLS, OO-SLR,... are the 767s that SLR used to operate in the good days of the Belgian charters.

snowbird · Post by **snowbird** » 04 Jan 2007, 23:29

My conclusion is that only one single aircraft for ICA flights is asking for problems in case of an AOG. Jetair knows that and they take the risk. How many delays did they already have with this aircraft. Once a month this topic starts again: the delay of the Jetairfly B767!!!
MP has indeed a better record due to more aircraft in their fleet so they can react quicker on a delay.

Mirror · Post by **Mirror** » 04 Jan 2007, 23:52

Lucky jetair passengers tommorow again
DEP 0600 To punta cana however :

Thomson ARR 1735
OOTUC ARR1600

JAFflyer · Post by **JAFflyer** » 05 Jan 2007, 00:06

What a load of crap I have read here.
First of all, our TUC hasn't been AOG since August, the aircraft is in good shape now, what can JAF do about a rabbit being sucked into the engine??

Second: if you are in the airline business, you'll know that no other LH aircraft were available now. Yes, we have aircraft in the TUI group and nobody speaks about the 260 pax we helped with a Thomsonfly 767. 767's don't grow on treas.

Third: We had a sollution but EuroAtlantic waited until the last moment to say their aircraft wasn't out of maintenance (contract signed, pax informed and then we got this news).

Fourth: pax were being offered a room in the Sheraton (not a bad hotel at all!!!). We gave them food, beds, etc... This is a service you can't expect from every airline nowadays. (Ryanair, Easyjet, ....)

Fifth: the fact of JAF not wanting to pay for any other LH aircraft is crap...

Now I hope you'll all calm down bitching on JAF because who just got the most awards from Belgian touroperators??? That's right, Jetair.
You should support a Belgian airline instead of bringing it down.
Hasn't SN got loads of troubles with their 330's? This is aviation, and a rabbit, sorry, but nobody can foresee that.

TWA · Post by **TWA** » 05 Jan 2007, 00:29

Look it on the bright side, at least the pax stuck across the atlantic got a nice free extension of their holiday.

Vinnie-Winnie · Post by **Vinnie-Winnie** » 05 Jan 2007, 00:46

TWA wrote:Look it on the bright side, at least the pax stuck across the atlantic got a nice free extension of their holiday.

Have u ever worked in your life? Ever heard of shifts and inflexible employers?

Well I can count numerous and believe me 2 days out of work might mean 2 days less wages whatever the excuse.

So all in all no-one was happy to stay on Holiday must have created added stress to everyone...

This is just bad luck can't blame jetair. But Belgium small country small operations so this kind of bad luck can only be expected and will be repeated all over again should any incident like that happen again...

too bad but that is life. At least Jetair is doing its best!

dre · Post by **dre** » 05 Jan 2007, 09:08

what airlines or companies do is just see what is best for them. If they consider the loss or damage less with cancelling the flight they will do it. It has nothing to do with if they are nice or not or if it is a belgian airline.

snowbird · Post by **snowbird** » 05 Jan 2007, 09:47

@ JAFFLY

Nice to read your arguments.
However, you must agree that only ONE longhaul aircraft in your fleet is asking for problems if you have an AOG.

Still wondering why JETAIRFLY is not working together with ARKEFLY in the Netherlands. They have 3-4 B767. There must be some advantages

JAFflyer · Post by **JAFflyer** » 05 Jan 2007, 10:55

On that part I can fully agree snowbird. But Arke uses it's fleet to the complete maximum, so at the moment they need every 767 in their fleet. And to buy/lease an extra 767 costs a lot of money. The 767 is not the most profitable part of the organization, I can tell you that. And to have two 767's in the fleet for a small country like Belgium, I'm affraid half the time they would be half empty....

greetz.

dre · Post by **dre** » 05 Jan 2007, 11:42

it is not easy off course.
Airplanes are not always readily available. If you want to solve problems the complete TUI group maybe could have some spare airplanes to operate for partners with technical problems (for corsair Arkefly TUB, etc.) It is only a guess. I know how difficult it is to charter a long haul airplane short notice. Also Arkefly had similare problems before and when BelgiumExel was flying it was the same story.

cherdt · Post by **cherdt** » 05 Jan 2007, 13:50

Belgium Exel/JAF/MP. Since SobelAir went bankrupt we haven't seen decent flights to the Caribean. It's very sad, because I like to spent my vacation there. MP is the best of the three, BelgiumExel was a complete disgrace. And JAF doesn't seem to have much "luck" with their 767.

regi · Post by **regi** » 05 Jan 2007, 15:35

I don't have an idea about the real costs . But I start to think now that this will be an expensive thing for Jetair on the commercial side.
Technical question: would it not have been possible to go get the passengers with 2 x B-737 with a stop on Iceland?
If Jetair would have reacted quickly, it would never had reached the news.
Somebody at Jetair will loose his career opportunities.