well sn is a company that uses its possibilities and doesn't go and buy some more planes like Sabena, i think they are the experts and that they will know when they need new aircrafts for new destinations. I have all the confidence in the people that decide these things and i dunno but i think that Sn would rather buy a A350 then a B787, looks to me like their airbus fans.
And what about the rumours that sn were going to buy embraer 170's? The only thing that i can say is that as i was working for Sn last vacation that there were a lot of Embraer 170 models in company and sn colors.
yabu
Future Asian partners SNBA ?
Moderator: Latest news team
I think it's not realistic what you are saying. SNBA needs more aircrafts, I'm not talking about 34 new aircraft like in the past: that was not the choose of Sabena but of Swiss Air. I'm talking about a few.
Didn't you saw the news or the newspapers. SN is loosing it's position in Africa. That's their profit. Don't look at Europe because some routes are full with 3 or 4 players on one route.
If you follow the other airlines they open every week some new routes. SN is sitting and wait, if they don't take action forget it. It will stay a regional airline with some flights to Africa an one to the middel-east. Is that what you want?
SN needs expansion with aircrafts who they can lease. Why could other airlines expands and SN not? Don't be a conservative, if you want to survive in the airline world, you have to take some action. After you have done some research of course.
Didn't you saw the news or the newspapers. SN is loosing it's position in Africa. That's their profit. Don't look at Europe because some routes are full with 3 or 4 players on one route.
If you follow the other airlines they open every week some new routes. SN is sitting and wait, if they don't take action forget it. It will stay a regional airline with some flights to Africa an one to the middel-east. Is that what you want?
SN needs expansion with aircrafts who they can lease. Why could other airlines expands and SN not? Don't be a conservative, if you want to survive in the airline world, you have to take some action. After you have done some research of course.
Ask the Abramovich brothers
Dear Hans, Malev is now in the hands of Krasair. Ask the Abramovich brothers what their plans are.hvv wrote:The Hainan Airlines home page (http://www.hnair.com/en/) mentions a Budapest flight opening on 2 August. MALEV has been asked to help train the Hainan personnel.
Could Budapest be a competitor for Brussels?
Hans.
Some would torpedo the airport to sink the airline....
Folks, Skype is a great invention.
Last night, Dave and I discussed SNBA's strategic Africa plan.
We could agree that from the start the plan was a 50% success, which includes it is also a 50%... indeed.
Belgo-belgian communitarian quarrels were partly @the base of Sabena's collapse and partly cause the strategic Africa plan not to be a great success.
SNBA would have harvested more if it could have outsourced more long haul flights than with the single company of Mr Hasson.
If the regional governments, in their concern to maintain at least the level of traffic of late Sabena, which the federal government wasn't able provide the conditions for to go on flying, had at least, in cooperation with private entrepreneurs, tried to set up an other belgian aviation group. Then there would possibly have been a second body* to who SNBA could have outsourced part of its traffic. But SNBA was then, and is probably still is as monopolistic as was Sabena.
The Hasson group could have concentrated eg on West and Central Africa and the other group on East and South Africa. Moreover together they might have joined in some cargo flights, market that is now left to others. As we all know, Belgium is export country number one, and we no have the vehicle to carry our export. (Our exporters have to find the product, the client and produce the goods, foreigners get the fruit of the transport, something I do not get... although I 100% accept competition.)
What I wanted to say: it was a plan indeed. But a small one, little people have little ideas. Brussels, what is in a name, SN Brussels Airline, the name tells it, was to protect Brussels' financial place intrests. Who gets beter with SNBA? Finance indeed. Who am I to change that?
That the plan was not welcomed by everybody is meanwhile clear. Some political tendencies in the belgian politics show this and seem to be ready to go that far as to torpedo the airport to sink the airline, if I may say so.
*VLM is prooving it is growing faster in %, because of a more dynamic strategic plan. It will be long before SNBA doubles its capacity or acquires the means to that, as did VLM.
Last night, Dave and I discussed SNBA's strategic Africa plan.
We could agree that from the start the plan was a 50% success, which includes it is also a 50%... indeed.
Belgo-belgian communitarian quarrels were partly @the base of Sabena's collapse and partly cause the strategic Africa plan not to be a great success.
SNBA would have harvested more if it could have outsourced more long haul flights than with the single company of Mr Hasson.
If the regional governments, in their concern to maintain at least the level of traffic of late Sabena, which the federal government wasn't able provide the conditions for to go on flying, had at least, in cooperation with private entrepreneurs, tried to set up an other belgian aviation group. Then there would possibly have been a second body* to who SNBA could have outsourced part of its traffic. But SNBA was then, and is probably still is as monopolistic as was Sabena.
The Hasson group could have concentrated eg on West and Central Africa and the other group on East and South Africa. Moreover together they might have joined in some cargo flights, market that is now left to others. As we all know, Belgium is export country number one, and we no have the vehicle to carry our export. (Our exporters have to find the product, the client and produce the goods, foreigners get the fruit of the transport, something I do not get... although I 100% accept competition.)
What I wanted to say: it was a plan indeed. But a small one, little people have little ideas. Brussels, what is in a name, SN Brussels Airline, the name tells it, was to protect Brussels' financial place intrests. Who gets beter with SNBA? Finance indeed. Who am I to change that?
That the plan was not welcomed by everybody is meanwhile clear. Some political tendencies in the belgian politics show this and seem to be ready to go that far as to torpedo the airport to sink the airline, if I may say so.
*VLM is prooving it is growing faster in %, because of a more dynamic strategic plan. It will be long before SNBA doubles its capacity or acquires the means to that, as did VLM.
Atlantis:
I think the problem is that they want to sell the company.... and they can't sell it when the financial figures are in red. When they lease another A330 to open another African market, they will need to invest some money and they can't affort this. Otherwise they will not have 'positive' figures at the end of the fiscal year. This is the major problem they have...the investors are asking their money back and that's why, in my opinion, nothing will change until they have sold the company.
I think the problem is that they want to sell the company.... and they can't sell it when the financial figures are in red. When they lease another A330 to open another African market, they will need to invest some money and they can't affort this. Otherwise they will not have 'positive' figures at the end of the fiscal year. This is the major problem they have...the investors are asking their money back and that's why, in my opinion, nothing will change until they have sold the company.
If you look at the figures: only the nett figures then SN made a profit in the first quarter of this year of 7.7 million euro. This was for so far the best result they had. I'm not talking about the operational costs or other. Only the money at the end of the road. They have a forecast that the company will end again in black figures.
I'm know that they are looking now for a forth aircraft, so at this moment it's not known if they got this aircraft in this fiscal year.
When I read the articles: Rob Cuypers says that the company will not be sell in 2006, that was the deal. After that year the hunt is open.
So, in my opinion SNBA is a healthy company at this moment, we will see after some investments what the figures are.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm know that they are looking now for a forth aircraft, so at this moment it's not known if they got this aircraft in this fiscal year.
When I read the articles: Rob Cuypers says that the company will not be sell in 2006, that was the deal. After that year the hunt is open.
So, in my opinion SNBA is a healthy company at this moment, we will see after some investments what the figures are.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
SN is a healthy company, that's a true but it's a static company. All present airlines are trying to increase their traffic and are growing. SN is staying at the present position and are not investing in new destinations (flown by SN aircraft). The 4th A330 will come... but when? They will pay the double for the leasing of a new A330 compared with the current cheap leasing of the three A330's. When you talk to the station managers of SN in Africa then they all say the same thing...SN is loosing traffic to KLM/Air France and they need to increase frequenties to the current destinations and open new destinations.
So far the best result, but did they make an operatring profit or loss ?Atlantis wrote:If you look at the figures: only the nett figures then SN made a profit in the first quarter of this year of 7.7 million euro. This was for so far the best result they had.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that SN made the money thanks to some sell and lease back operations of planes !! If that is true than the 7.7 profit is not relevant at all since it's only a one time profit boosted by the sell and less back operation.
So in fact SN might still have done an operating loss for the first quarter.
I don't say that this is true, it's just my thoughts. But I would like to know whether they made an operating loss or not and whether they did some sell and lesa back operations. Can anybody provide us with those facts ?.
And to stay on topic about the African network. I totally agree with you guys on the fact that SN has to expand its african network. But I don't think that by putting one additional plane in the fleet they will be able to compete against AF/KL
Chris
Red figures are no hinder.
You must be joking. This week Malev was 'sold' to Krasair, and how much is MA in the red? (I posted that, but it seems not to published, Andre?) Here it is, sorry Andre!:oops:FlyA330 wrote:Atlantis:
I think the problem is that they want to sell the company.... and they can't sell it when the financial figures are in red.
Even in the red does an airline have value in Europe.
Imagine a 'rich' sponsored airline wants to buy: what does it get:
Aircraft, top-trained staff, premises and last but not least, location meaning traffic rights and a market.
If it has to build all that, that will cost more than these red figures.
Soon we will have Russian Siberian Krasair all over Europe. Who for sake expected 3, 5 or even less 10 years ago that would happen? Imagine CX want to get involved in European traffic. What would be the easiest, most convenient way to do that? And the cheapest, what ever you think the red figures are prohibitive.
Or would Mr Soros' Hainan maybe the one waiting for the apple to fall in its lap? I personally admire Mr Soros' ideas, they are 10 years ahead in implementation.
@ Avro,
Sorry, I don't have the operational figures for the moment. All the other quarters I have all the figures but now when I need it to give it to you I have nothing except the nett figures. Sorry about that.
What about the sell and lease back of the Avro fleet (23 a/c). It's a program over a period of 5 years. It ends in 2009. So I don't know if they already started. And I don't think that it will be a big impact on the figures.
Sorry, I don't have the operational figures for the moment. All the other quarters I have all the figures but now when I need it to give it to you I have nothing except the nett figures. Sorry about that.
What about the sell and lease back of the Avro fleet (23 a/c). It's a program over a period of 5 years. It ends in 2009. So I don't know if they already started. And I don't think that it will be a big impact on the figures.
It's no problem Atlantis. Let's hope someone else will be able to lighten the things up a little bitAtlantis wrote:@ Avro,
Sorry, I don't have the operational figures for the moment. All the other quarters I have all the figures but now when I need it to give it to you I have nothing except the nett figures. Sorry about that.
About the sell and elase back, If my memory is correct they already started the operations, but I might be wrong as well.
Chris
I have done some checks on Airwise.net. For so far nothing mentioned in the remarks table about a leasing company. Or it could be that the site is not updated. Although it would surprise me because you can sign in for an update of a particular aircraft.
I will check it out if something changed in the couple of weeks, months, years
I will check it out if something changed in the couple of weeks, months, years
I personally think SNBA's good days in Africa were over when AF/KL joined forces. Both AF and KL have had very good presence in Africa before their merger (AF in the French speaking African countries and KL in English speaking African countries). If two of your competitors merge and become a giant competitor (almost a Golliath), one can only pray that they leave some traffic for you. SNBA would be foolish to go after AF/KL unless they want to comit suicide (AF/KL can sustain more losses than SNBA). A more gentle approach wouldn't be a bad idea, and hope AF/KL leave some traffic for you.But I don't think that by putting one additional plane in the fleet they will be able to compete against AF/KL
As far as Malev is concerned. Don't forget that East Europe is booming and that there is a lot of traffic between Asia and Eastern Europe (as shown by the announcement of, if I'm not mistaken, China Airlines to start pax flights to Vienna.