Brussels Airlines in 2020

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Ozzie1969
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Ozzie1969 »

Conti764 wrote: 16 Jul 2020, 19:09 I don't understand why everyone keeps saying LH might f*ck over the Belgian government for the restructuring 2020-2023 and then abandon SN while De Croo said they obtained a post 2023 growth plan.
Today's plan is tomorrow's toilet paper.

Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Passenger »

VRT News reports that the Belgian government will discuss the state aid on Thursday evening/night.

De Tijd reports that the Belgian government will discuss it on Friday.

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Atlantis »

Passenger wrote: 16 Jul 2020, 22:57 VRT News reports that the Belgian government will discuss the state aid on Thursday evening/night.

De Tijd reports that the Belgian government will discuss it on Friday.
Indeed on Friday, tomorrow. And it seems this time that there has to be a solution/result on the table. Finally I would say

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by sn26567 »

Atlantis wrote: 16 Jul 2020, 23:20
Passenger wrote: 16 Jul 2020, 22:57 VRT News reports that the Belgian government will discuss the state aid on Thursday evening/night.

De Tijd reports that the Belgian government will discuss it on Friday.
Indeed on Friday, tomorrow. And it seems this time that there has to be a solution/result on the table. Finally I would say
... if Parliament today allows the Government to spend 1 billion on the possible second wave of coronavirus and Brussels Airlines!

Edit: the Parliament approved the expense.
André
ex Sabena #26567

Homo Aeroportus
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Homo Aeroportus »

Meanwhile, ...

Today three (3) flights to AFI.
SN F fleet.png
OO-SFG as SN1201 to DSS
OO-SFE as SN1303 to ROB > ABJ
OO-SFD as SN1371 to DLA

First revenue flight for Delta. She came back from AMM on 15JUL. Was there since 29JAN.

Also according to FR24 Bravo is frantically getting ready to go, soon I guess. She hadn't flown since 20MAR.
OO-SFB in readiness.png

I notice that Echo flies as SN1303 to ROB.
West African destinations used to be in the 2xx series, with 3xx applied to Central Africa.
??

H.A.

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by sn26567 »

Homo Aeroportus wrote: 18 Jul 2020, 18:43 Meanwhile, ...

Today three (3) flights to AFI.
Strange. Earlier this week, SN said that the transition from 2 to 5 long-haul aircraft was postponed to 8 August, thus this week only 2 A330s were available, the other ones still being in hibernation.

Of course, one aircraft (SFD) coming back from AMM explains that a third one was available today...
André
ex Sabena #26567

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Airbus330lover
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Airbus330lover »

or simply cargo flights ? or repatriation flights ?

Homo Aeroportus
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Homo Aeroportus »

Airbus330lover wrote: 18 Jul 2020, 21:53 or simply cargo flights ? or repatriation flights ?
Don't think so. All three appeared on the BRU Departure page.

H.A.

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Homo Aeroportus »

sn26567 wrote: 18 Jul 2020, 20:43
Homo Aeroportus wrote: 18 Jul 2020, 18:43 Meanwhile, ...

Today three (3) flights to AFI.
Strange. Earlier this week, SN said that the transition from 2 to 5 long-haul aircraft was postponed to 8 August, thus this week only 2 A330s were available, the other ones still being in hibernation.
.....
Well in military terms this is no time for strategy, just tactical moves.
Volume to fly : Fly !
No volume : Cancel, postpone !

The future is not what it used to be. Being adaptive is the key.
Makes long haul flying, err... interesting in terms of planning.

H.A.

Bracebrace
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Bracebrace »

Pretty lousy service then for people leasing on holiday with 0% guarantee of a return flight they probably paid for. If that is your strategy, it destroys your image. A couple of stranded pax in the press is all it takes, and nobody will even try to book a flight.

Flanker2
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Flanker2 »

Rumors are that many SN staff signed up for the severance packages, some amounting to 6 digits and years worth of salary, but there is no money to pay for them, and that LH is waiting for money from the Belgian government to pay these severance jackpots.

If true, it's time to shut down this clown show, LH management would be totally delusional to expect the taxpayer to pay for their downsizing.
This would also be totally unfair for the staff that do remain with the company as it weakens the company's finances.

Perhaps someone can confirm these outrageous rumors?

I've never heard of something so irresponsible.

Bracebrace
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Bracebrace »

1) it's a rumo(u)r.

2) Leave packages are normal to be 1 year salary, sometimes up to 2 year salary. You don't just simply ask someone to leave "voluntary" without giving something in return. Standard practice, not related to aviation uniquely.

Which is still financially more sound than how our "public officers" are treated: they can't be fired, "problems" are moved to a different department for the same salary until retirement. Or they move up, get higher salary without questioning the capabilities of that person and ... same result (I think contact tracing organisation is a perfect example these days). Nothing financially outrageous about that.

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b.lufthansa
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by b.lufthansa »

Meanwhile a second wave is starting in Belgium. I feel the worst.

Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Passenger »

b.lufthansa wrote: 20 Jul 2020, 09:30 Meanwhile a second wave is starting in Belgium. I feel the worst.
Why do you post this only here, and not also in the topics Air Belgium 2020, TUIfly 2020, Ryanair in 2020, ...?

DeltaWiskey
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by DeltaWiskey »

Flanker2 wrote: 20 Jul 2020, 05:19 Rumors are that many SN staff signed up for the severance packages, some amounting to 6 digits and years worth of salary, but there is no money to pay for them, and that LH is waiting for money from the Belgian government to pay these severance jackpots.

If true, it's time to shut down this clown show, LH management would be totally delusional to expect the taxpayer to pay for their downsizing.
This would also be totally unfair for the staff that do remain with the company as it weakens the company's finances.

Perhaps someone can confirm these outrageous rumors?

I've never heard of something so irresponsible.
Your rumors are not correct. Lufthansa will provide all the funds associated with the restructuring. However, there is also talks to get loans with state support, all these loans will have to be repaid in due time. In order to pay back the loans, it is crucial that the company still exists in a few years and that it is profitable, hence the important of the restructuring plan.

It is normal in Belgium (and Western Europe in general actually), that severance packages amount to 6 digit figures for employees with a lot of seniority in the company. This is just the law, this is not particular to SN or the aviation sector.

Poiu
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Poiu »

DeltaWiskey wrote: 20 Jul 2020, 10:29 However, there is also talks to get loans with state support, all these loans will have to be repaid in due time. In order to pay back the loans, it is crucial that the company still exists in a few years and that it is profitable, hence the important of the restructuring plan.
For almost 20 years it has been impossible to payback the 2001 loan, how do you expect them to pay back the new loan? They won’t even be capable of paying the interest. The only reason SN is kept alive is an attempt to save som jobs, they’ll be struggling to survive for the foreseeable future.
Letting SN rest in peace and investing the money for the restructuring and the state aid in a new company, under the umbrella of Lufthansa, IAG or AF-KLM is, sadly enough, the only solution which will be viable in the long term.

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Conti764 »

Poiu wrote: 20 Jul 2020, 12:40
DeltaWiskey wrote: 20 Jul 2020, 10:29 However, there is also talks to get loans with state support, all these loans will have to be repaid in due time. In order to pay back the loans, it is crucial that the company still exists in a few years and that it is profitable, hence the important of the restructuring plan.
For almost 20 years it has been impossible to payback the 2001 loan, how do you expect them to pay back the new loan? They won’t even be capable of paying the interest. The only reason SN is kept alive is an attempt to save som jobs, they’ll be struggling to survive for the foreseeable future.
Letting SN rest in peace and investing the money for the restructuring and the state aid in a new company, under the umbrella of Lufthansa, IAG or AF-KLM is, sadly enough, the only solution which will be viable in the long term.
You can't draw conclusions without taking SN's history into account.

A lot of traffic and market was lost with the demise of Sabena. The merger with VEX was a mistake at a moment when SN Brussels Airlines was on a careful path towards profits.
And right after the merger, the world (and aviation) got hit by the worst crisis since the Great Depression.
They've gone through the Western Africa Ebola outbreak. Their homebase was struck by terrorist attacks in 2016 resulting in it closing down for several weeks and minimal restart afterwards.
Lufthansa lost valuable time by forcing SN into its highly loss making EW project.
And right when SN was alowed to spread its wings apart from EW, albeit with a restructuring program impsed by LH, the world got hit with Covid-19.
SN never realy got a fair chance fighting for its reason to excist. Now you might claim other airlines were hit by the same crises as SN (apart from the 2016 attacks) but overall most other airlines got the time and opportunity to grow or get stable at times when SN was struggling from Sabena's bankruptcy, resulting in a better basic condition then SN, making it easier to live out those crises.

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Homo Aeroportus »

OO-SFB did a "Go and Touch" minutes ago.

According to FR24 she was bound for AMM, though I doubt it is for a cabin refit and painting, but that was a 7-minute flight. Up to 1800ft max and return immediately.
Go and Touch OOSFB 20200720T1500.png

Hope nothing serious.

H.A.

Poiu
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Poiu »

Conti764 wrote: 20 Jul 2020, 14:30
SN never realy got a fair chance fighting for its reason to excist. Now you might claim other airlines were hit by the same crises as SN (apart from the 2016 attacks) but overall most other airlines got the time and opportunity to grow or get stable at times when SN was struggling from Sabena's bankruptcy, resulting in a better basic condition then SN, making it easier to live out those crises.
Quite the opposite in fact, a lot of valuable slots and other assets were transferred basically for free from Sabena to SN.

Flanker2
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Flanker2 »

DeltaWiskey wrote: 20 Jul 2020, 10:29
Flanker2 wrote: 20 Jul 2020, 05:19 Rumors are that many SN staff signed up for the severance packages, some amounting to 6 digits and years worth of salary, but there is no money to pay for them, and that LH is waiting for money from the Belgian government to pay these severance jackpots.

If true, it's time to shut down this clown show, LH management would be totally delusional to expect the taxpayer to pay for their downsizing.
This would also be totally unfair for the staff that do remain with the company as it weakens the company's finances.

Perhaps someone can confirm these outrageous rumors?

I've never heard of something so irresponsible.
Your rumors are not correct. Lufthansa will provide all the funds associated with the restructuring. However, there is also talks to get loans with state support, all these loans will have to be repaid in due time. In order to pay back the loans, it is crucial that the company still exists in a few years and that it is profitable, hence the important of the restructuring plan.

It is normal in Belgium (and Western Europe in general actually), that severance packages amount to 6 digit figures for employees with a lot of seniority in the company. This is just the law, this is not particular to SN or the aviation sector.
It doesn't make sense to pay years of salary to senior staff so they can sit under palm trees in the Bahamas.
What kind of restructuring is that?

Pay years of salary with no productivity in return, and lose the best know-how.
That's not a restructuring plan, it's stupidity.

Whomever suggested that plan should go back to primary school. They have no business being at the head of an airline.

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