Brussels Airport (BRU): Star Alliance, Oneworld and Skyteam under one roof?

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU): Star Alliance, Oneworld and Skyteam under one roof?

Post by Atlantis » 17 Aug 2019, 00:18

Jetter wrote:
16 Aug 2019, 18:57
Atlantis wrote:
16 Aug 2019, 09:45
PttU wrote:
16 Aug 2019, 00:06
Why would an airport care about the alliances and their placement? The only reason would be to accommodate transferring passengers and limit their connection time. But having the connecting passengers walk through your revenue-generating mall, and on the other hand keeping Shengen/non-Shengen split, would be more interesting for the airport as a company I'm afraid.
And for the other revenues: a flight is a flight, no matter the airline, and certainly no matter the alliance the airline belongs to.
An airport HAS to care of the airlines and the alliances. Those are their clients. To give you one example: at LHR you also have the alliances under one roof and this to make the journey of the pax more easier and the connecting time shorter. This makes LHR also more attractive even it is the busiest airport in Europe. A huge majority is travelling via LHR not always bcs they have to be in the UK but bcs they over you the wide range of destinations. This ambition is also what needs to be here. Not like the Belgian mentality of thinking that pax and airlines will come by themself, no you have to do something...
Passengers are clients of airports too, they pay the tax and spend their money at the airport. In my opinion first priority should be their experience by limiting passport/security checks to the minimum needed, thus separating distinct passenger flows: Schengen/non-Schengen, sterile/non-sterile. In example someone arriving from the USA transferring onto another flight should never have to go through security and someone arriving from and going to an EU country also shouldn’t have to show his passport. After that is achieved it’s good to look at the logical location of alliances. But to do that might be very complicated with the current infrastructure. AFAIK only AMS has this currently, and even there only the new pier will allow for all type of passengers at all gates.
When you read my posts good than you could read that I speak about airlines and pax as clients of the airport....

Kzaant
Posts: 9
Joined: 09 Aug 2019, 22:24

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU): Star Alliance, Oneworld and Skyteam under one roof?

Post by Kzaant » 17 Aug 2019, 11:44

Atlantis wrote:
15 Aug 2019, 22:24
Time to start part 4 where to place the airlines and Alliances under the big roof of BRU.

As we discussed before which airlines and destinations we can expect, it is time to discuss where they will be in this whole picture.
BTW some of the airlines/destinations which were discussed before are in the last stage of negotiations. So let's hope that by the beginning of the Winter season they will announce and open the bookings for the next Summer season.

As BRU will build two new Piers, let us start with the Pier who will be the longest in the future. This will be Pier C.
Pier C will accomodate the leisure flights of TUI, Corendon, SN, Tailwind and many other leisure carriers. This Pier will accomodate around 12 to 15 gates for short and long haul.
There will be also some remote stands for Ryanair and Easyjet according to their cost structure. Also in their benefit, but also for all other airlines, is the faster access to the runways.
Pier C will take over the leisure flights from Pier A and B. TUI can operate all flights from this Pier. Also their own maintenance building and offices are close as this is on the same part of the airport.
Pier C will be also connected with the Leisure Terminal which is finally in use again.

Pier C will be used as back up in case that there is place too short. That's why is can receive short and long haul

The second new Pier will be A Pier West. This one will be build in a few years.
Pier A West will be accomodated with 15 long haul gates or 20 short haul gates. It still can change after final decision.
Pier A West will have their own border control to enter the main A Pier or if you want to enter this part. The same strategy as with the T-Gates

This Pier will be the dedicated Star Alliance Pier. This will be a State-of-Art. BRU is doing fine and good. This will be a way to appreciate and give the clients and PAX what they deserve.

Pier A West will welcome the United flights, Ethiopian, Thai, Asiana, ANA, Singapore Airlines, Air Canada, Egyptair, Turkish Airlines and reserved for Indian, Latin America and South Africa flights if needed.
SN can also have their part in this with flights to The States/Canada.

A Pier West can have finally also the Star Alliance Lounge. As the fifth biggest Star Alliance hub in the World it is a must to have and to spoil your customers

SN will keep the T-Gates and their lounge on the place where they have it now. It would be even good to give them some more space by extra one or two gates for expanding their flights to Africa. Everything depends on what we will hear from LH at the end of this third quarter.

The other part of Pier A will be used by SN and the other members of Star. LOT Polish Airlines is going to expand more by offering more flights. Also LH, Swiss, Austrian, TAP, SAS are heavy users of this Pier.

By moving away some flights to Pier C, the needed space will become available. Some extra flights of United and Air Canada would be welcome.

Let us have a look at the other Pier B. This will be the dedicated State-of-Art Pier B. OneWorld and Skyteam will be under this roof.

This biggest Alliance, after Star, is Oneworld. BA, Qatar, Cathay and RAM have their place already in Pier B. Only Finnair and Iberia has to move from Pier A to Pier B.
This Alliance can have their place at the beginning of Pier B. They are still growing as RAM is going to offer more direct flights instead of triangle. Also Qatar wants to expand.
But a must be is American Airlines with the two flights which they had before. Also LATAM is high on the list.
An other airline with potential is S7 Airlines. The Russian market is doing very well. Each month the numbers are high and increasing. With only two carriers, there is still place for a third one. S7 is flying with very modern Airbus equipment and they have also St. Petersburg in the portfolio.

Next to OneWorld will be Skyteam. This is the smallest Alliance but has still potential to grow. Delta, Tarom, MEA and Aeroflot are already flying from Pier B. AF/KLM, Alitalia, Czech Airlines and Air Europe has to move from Pier A to Pier B.
This alliance can still grow by an extra flight/destination of Delta. Aero Mexico and China Southern are also possible. China Southern are eventhough not in Skyteam anymore.

The last part of Pier B can be used by the ME carriers as Emirates, Etihad, Oman Air. Also Hainan Airlines, Rwandair and others can have their fixed place here.

As this will be a mix of Shengen and non-Shengen, as we also have in other airports, a minimum of control will be needed. This is already the case since long when you take an SN flight or other European flight that you still have to show your ID, even when you fly Shengen.

In Pier B and C a lot E-Gates will be needed and let them work this to have smooth access to the country and a pleasant experience for the clients

This way of placing carriers and allicances under one roof will give you a clear structure, smooth connections between each other flights and will be even more attractive to other carriers to fly to BRU. This will be also a recognition to the clients and PAX that they feel respected and that they can fly from a well organized airport

The Terminal of the future will be also the airport of the future.

I’m sorry but 90% of what you’ve written is just some wishful thinking b*llshit. Brussels Airport is not going to change their whole airport structure just for some aviation geeks who lile the idea of separating the alliances.

A330
Posts: 49
Joined: 10 Jul 2012, 22:15

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU): Star Alliance, Oneworld and Skyteam under one roof?

Post by A330 » 17 Aug 2019, 12:17

Nice to hear ideas on the expansion of BRU are materializing. Looking at Google images I see there are currently 6 stands west of Pier A, I guess remote stands mostly used by e.g. Ryanair. You could add another 3 further west until the Road/tunnel under the runway, to me the outer further extensions of the new pier. These stands seem wider than the current A gates, dedicated for narrow-bodies. So 10 could easily fit, making it 20 narrow-body Gates for the entire new pier. Glad to hear that equals 15 wide-body Gates.
I had no idea what the plans were for Pier C as that seemed to me to be something far into the future (2030-2035). A Pier West is closer and I had been wondering how Airlines and flights would be reshuffled to make use of the additional capacity.
There are many ways but it is not so easy. Problem to me seemed that that most long haul flights (wilde body aircraft) arrive early morning and leave late morning, so a lot of capacity in Pier B is not used in the afternoon. It seemed like a nice idea to bring all OneWorld and SkyTeam Airlines together. But I think the added valse in there is smaller. Sure, the will be pax transfering from KLM to Delta, or Alitalia to Delta, or Qatar to Finnair or British Airways, British Airways to Iberia or Cathay Pacific. I'm certain these itineraries exist, but I doubt they make up a Large volume of pax. But perhaps they are a side effect of other moves.
I still think the largest added value would be to bring Star Alliance together, and more precisely SN and some of their closest partners. Again, I do not see much benefit in co-locating Thai, Turkish, Ethiopian and/or Egyptair. Most Star connections will be from/to SN, especially their Africa flights. So I would bring these together with United and Air Canada. Keeping SN's Africa flights separate at the T gates does not really change or improve anything for the transfer experience.
Interested to see how this will Work out or if anyone has suggestions.

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Atlantis
Posts: 4231
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU): Star Alliance, Oneworld and Skyteam under one roof?

Post by Atlantis » 17 Aug 2019, 12:55

Kzaant wrote:
17 Aug 2019, 11:44
Atlantis wrote:
15 Aug 2019, 22:24
Time to start part 4 where to place the airlines and Alliances under the big roof of BRU.

As we discussed before which airlines and destinations we can expect, it is time to discuss where they will be in this whole picture.
BTW some of the airlines/destinations which were discussed before are in the last stage of negotiations. So let's hope that by the beginning of the Winter season they will announce and open the bookings for the next Summer season.

As BRU will build two new Piers, let us start with the Pier who will be the longest in the future. This will be Pier C.
Pier C will accomodate the leisure flights of TUI, Corendon, SN, Tailwind and many other leisure carriers. This Pier will accomodate around 12 to 15 gates for short and long haul.
There will be also some remote stands for Ryanair and Easyjet according to their cost structure. Also in their benefit, but also for all other airlines, is the faster access to the runways.
Pier C will take over the leisure flights from Pier A and B. TUI can operate all flights from this Pier. Also their own maintenance building and offices are close as this is on the same part of the airport.
Pier C will be also connected with the Leisure Terminal which is finally in use again.

Pier C will be used as back up in case that there is place too short. That's why is can receive short and long haul

The second new Pier will be A Pier West. This one will be build in a few years.
Pier A West will be accomodated with 15 long haul gates or 20 short haul gates. It still can change after final decision.
Pier A West will have their own border control to enter the main A Pier or if you want to enter this part. The same strategy as with the T-Gates

This Pier will be the dedicated Star Alliance Pier. This will be a State-of-Art. BRU is doing fine and good. This will be a way to appreciate and give the clients and PAX what they deserve.

Pier A West will welcome the United flights, Ethiopian, Thai, Asiana, ANA, Singapore Airlines, Air Canada, Egyptair, Turkish Airlines and reserved for Indian, Latin America and South Africa flights if needed.
SN can also have their part in this with flights to The States/Canada.

A Pier West can have finally also the Star Alliance Lounge. As the fifth biggest Star Alliance hub in the World it is a must to have and to spoil your customers

SN will keep the T-Gates and their lounge on the place where they have it now. It would be even good to give them some more space by extra one or two gates for expanding their flights to Africa. Everything depends on what we will hear from LH at the end of this third quarter.

The other part of Pier A will be used by SN and the other members of Star. LOT Polish Airlines is going to expand more by offering more flights. Also LH, Swiss, Austrian, TAP, SAS are heavy users of this Pier.

By moving away some flights to Pier C, the needed space will become available. Some extra flights of United and Air Canada would be welcome.

Let us have a look at the other Pier B. This will be the dedicated State-of-Art Pier B. OneWorld and Skyteam will be under this roof.

This biggest Alliance, after Star, is Oneworld. BA, Qatar, Cathay and RAM have their place already in Pier B. Only Finnair and Iberia has to move from Pier A to Pier B.
This Alliance can have their place at the beginning of Pier B. They are still growing as RAM is going to offer more direct flights instead of triangle. Also Qatar wants to expand.
But a must be is American Airlines with the two flights which they had before. Also LATAM is high on the list.
An other airline with potential is S7 Airlines. The Russian market is doing very well. Each month the numbers are high and increasing. With only two carriers, there is still place for a third one. S7 is flying with very modern Airbus equipment and they have also St. Petersburg in the portfolio.

Next to OneWorld will be Skyteam. This is the smallest Alliance but has still potential to grow. Delta, Tarom, MEA and Aeroflot are already flying from Pier B. AF/KLM, Alitalia, Czech Airlines and Air Europe has to move from Pier A to Pier B.
This alliance can still grow by an extra flight/destination of Delta. Aero Mexico and China Southern are also possible. China Southern are eventhough not in Skyteam anymore.

The last part of Pier B can be used by the ME carriers as Emirates, Etihad, Oman Air. Also Hainan Airlines, Rwandair and others can have their fixed place here.

As this will be a mix of Shengen and non-Shengen, as we also have in other airports, a minimum of control will be needed. This is already the case since long when you take an SN flight or other European flight that you still have to show your ID, even when you fly Shengen.

In Pier B and C a lot E-Gates will be needed and let them work this to have smooth access to the country and a pleasant experience for the clients

This way of placing carriers and allicances under one roof will give you a clear structure, smooth connections between each other flights and will be even more attractive to other carriers to fly to BRU. This will be also a recognition to the clients and PAX that they feel respected and that they can fly from a well organized airport

The Terminal of the future will be also the airport of the future.

I’m sorry but 90% of what you’ve written is just some wishful thinking b*llshit. Brussels Airport is not going to change their whole airport structure just for some aviation geeks who lile the idea of separating the alliances.
Thank you very much for your diplomatic and very constructive feedback 👌. For sure you don't know me and you as a new member didn't gave any good impression. I wish you a very nice day 😂

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Conti764
Posts: 1583
Joined: 21 Sep 2007, 23:21

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU): Star Alliance, Oneworld and Skyteam under one roof?

Post by Conti764 » 17 Aug 2019, 13:07

Kzaant wrote:
17 Aug 2019, 11:44
Atlantis wrote:
15 Aug 2019, 22:24
Time to start part 4 where to place the airlines and Alliances under the big roof of BRU.

As we discussed before which airlines and destinations we can expect, it is time to discuss where they will be in this whole picture.
BTW some of the airlines/destinations which were discussed before are in the last stage of negotiations. So let's hope that by the beginning of the Winter season they will announce and open the bookings for the next Summer season.

As BRU will build two new Piers, let us start with the Pier who will be the longest in the future. This will be Pier C.
Pier C will accomodate the leisure flights of TUI, Corendon, SN, Tailwind and many other leisure carriers. This Pier will accomodate around 12 to 15 gates for short and long haul.
There will be also some remote stands for Ryanair and Easyjet according to their cost structure. Also in their benefit, but also for all other airlines, is the faster access to the runways.
Pier C will take over the leisure flights from Pier A and B. TUI can operate all flights from this Pier. Also their own maintenance building and offices are close as this is on the same part of the airport.
Pier C will be also connected with the Leisure Terminal which is finally in use again.

Pier C will be used as back up in case that there is place too short. That's why is can receive short and long haul

The second new Pier will be A Pier West. This one will be build in a few years.
Pier A West will be accomodated with 15 long haul gates or 20 short haul gates. It still can change after final decision.
Pier A West will have their own border control to enter the main A Pier or if you want to enter this part. The same strategy as with the T-Gates

This Pier will be the dedicated Star Alliance Pier. This will be a State-of-Art. BRU is doing fine and good. This will be a way to appreciate and give the clients and PAX what they deserve.

Pier A West will welcome the United flights, Ethiopian, Thai, Asiana, ANA, Singapore Airlines, Air Canada, Egyptair, Turkish Airlines and reserved for Indian, Latin America and South Africa flights if needed.
SN can also have their part in this with flights to The States/Canada.

A Pier West can have finally also the Star Alliance Lounge. As the fifth biggest Star Alliance hub in the World it is a must to have and to spoil your customers

SN will keep the T-Gates and their lounge on the place where they have it now. It would be even good to give them some more space by extra one or two gates for expanding their flights to Africa. Everything depends on what we will hear from LH at the end of this third quarter.

The other part of Pier A will be used by SN and the other members of Star. LOT Polish Airlines is going to expand more by offering more flights. Also LH, Swiss, Austrian, TAP, SAS are heavy users of this Pier.

By moving away some flights to Pier C, the needed space will become available. Some extra flights of United and Air Canada would be welcome.

Let us have a look at the other Pier B. This will be the dedicated State-of-Art Pier B. OneWorld and Skyteam will be under this roof.

This biggest Alliance, after Star, is Oneworld. BA, Qatar, Cathay and RAM have their place already in Pier B. Only Finnair and Iberia has to move from Pier A to Pier B.
This Alliance can have their place at the beginning of Pier B. They are still growing as RAM is going to offer more direct flights instead of triangle. Also Qatar wants to expand.
But a must be is American Airlines with the two flights which they had before. Also LATAM is high on the list.
An other airline with potential is S7 Airlines. The Russian market is doing very well. Each month the numbers are high and increasing. With only two carriers, there is still place for a third one. S7 is flying with very modern Airbus equipment and they have also St. Petersburg in the portfolio.

Next to OneWorld will be Skyteam. This is the smallest Alliance but has still potential to grow. Delta, Tarom, MEA and Aeroflot are already flying from Pier B. AF/KLM, Alitalia, Czech Airlines and Air Europe has to move from Pier A to Pier B.
This alliance can still grow by an extra flight/destination of Delta. Aero Mexico and China Southern are also possible. China Southern are eventhough not in Skyteam anymore.

The last part of Pier B can be used by the ME carriers as Emirates, Etihad, Oman Air. Also Hainan Airlines, Rwandair and others can have their fixed place here.

As this will be a mix of Shengen and non-Shengen, as we also have in other airports, a minimum of control will be needed. This is already the case since long when you take an SN flight or other European flight that you still have to show your ID, even when you fly Shengen.

In Pier B and C a lot E-Gates will be needed and let them work this to have smooth access to the country and a pleasant experience for the clients

This way of placing carriers and allicances under one roof will give you a clear structure, smooth connections between each other flights and will be even more attractive to other carriers to fly to BRU. This will be also a recognition to the clients and PAX that they feel respected and that they can fly from a well organized airport

The Terminal of the future will be also the airport of the future.

I’m sorry but 90% of what you’ve written is just some wishful thinking b*llshit. Brussels Airport is not going to change their whole airport structure just for some aviation geeks who lile the idea of separating the alliances.
Atlantis has already shown to be in the knowing about BRU plans and ambitions. Unlike someone who shared information from someone who knows someone who works at BRU...

Kzaant
Posts: 9
Joined: 09 Aug 2019, 22:24

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU): Star Alliance, Oneworld and Skyteam under one roof?

Post by Kzaant » 17 Aug 2019, 13:25

Conti764 wrote:
17 Aug 2019, 13:07
Kzaant wrote:
17 Aug 2019, 11:44
Atlantis wrote:
15 Aug 2019, 22:24
Time to start part 4 where to place the airlines and Alliances under the big roof of BRU.

As we discussed before which airlines and destinations we can expect, it is time to discuss where they will be in this whole picture.
BTW some of the airlines/destinations which were discussed before are in the last stage of negotiations. So let's hope that by the beginning of the Winter season they will announce and open the bookings for the next Summer season.

As BRU will build two new Piers, let us start with the Pier who will be the longest in the future. This will be Pier C.
Pier C will accomodate the leisure flights of TUI, Corendon, SN, Tailwind and many other leisure carriers. This Pier will accomodate around 12 to 15 gates for short and long haul.
There will be also some remote stands for Ryanair and Easyjet according to their cost structure. Also in their benefit, but also for all other airlines, is the faster access to the runways.
Pier C will take over the leisure flights from Pier A and B. TUI can operate all flights from this Pier. Also their own maintenance building and offices are close as this is on the same part of the airport.
Pier C will be also connected with the Leisure Terminal which is finally in use again.

Pier C will be used as back up in case that there is place too short. That's why is can receive short and long haul

The second new Pier will be A Pier West. This one will be build in a few years.
Pier A West will be accomodated with 15 long haul gates or 20 short haul gates. It still can change after final decision.
Pier A West will have their own border control to enter the main A Pier or if you want to enter this part. The same strategy as with the T-Gates

This Pier will be the dedicated Star Alliance Pier. This will be a State-of-Art. BRU is doing fine and good. This will be a way to appreciate and give the clients and PAX what they deserve.

Pier A West will welcome the United flights, Ethiopian, Thai, Asiana, ANA, Singapore Airlines, Air Canada, Egyptair, Turkish Airlines and reserved for Indian, Latin America and South Africa flights if needed.
SN can also have their part in this with flights to The States/Canada.

A Pier West can have finally also the Star Alliance Lounge. As the fifth biggest Star Alliance hub in the World it is a must to have and to spoil your customers

SN will keep the T-Gates and their lounge on the place where they have it now. It would be even good to give them some more space by extra one or two gates for expanding their flights to Africa. Everything depends on what we will hear from LH at the end of this third quarter.

The other part of Pier A will be used by SN and the other members of Star. LOT Polish Airlines is going to expand more by offering more flights. Also LH, Swiss, Austrian, TAP, SAS are heavy users of this Pier.

By moving away some flights to Pier C, the needed space will become available. Some extra flights of United and Air Canada would be welcome.

Let us have a look at the other Pier B. This will be the dedicated State-of-Art Pier B. OneWorld and Skyteam will be under this roof.

This biggest Alliance, after Star, is Oneworld. BA, Qatar, Cathay and RAM have their place already in Pier B. Only Finnair and Iberia has to move from Pier A to Pier B.
This Alliance can have their place at the beginning of Pier B. They are still growing as RAM is going to offer more direct flights instead of triangle. Also Qatar wants to expand.
But a must be is American Airlines with the two flights which they had before. Also LATAM is high on the list.
An other airline with potential is S7 Airlines. The Russian market is doing very well. Each month the numbers are high and increasing. With only two carriers, there is still place for a third one. S7 is flying with very modern Airbus equipment and they have also St. Petersburg in the portfolio.

Next to OneWorld will be Skyteam. This is the smallest Alliance but has still potential to grow. Delta, Tarom, MEA and Aeroflot are already flying from Pier B. AF/KLM, Alitalia, Czech Airlines and Air Europe has to move from Pier A to Pier B.
This alliance can still grow by an extra flight/destination of Delta. Aero Mexico and China Southern are also possible. China Southern are eventhough not in Skyteam anymore.

The last part of Pier B can be used by the ME carriers as Emirates, Etihad, Oman Air. Also Hainan Airlines, Rwandair and others can have their fixed place here.

As this will be a mix of Shengen and non-Shengen, as we also have in other airports, a minimum of control will be needed. This is already the case since long when you take an SN flight or other European flight that you still have to show your ID, even when you fly Shengen.

In Pier B and C a lot E-Gates will be needed and let them work this to have smooth access to the country and a pleasant experience for the clients

This way of placing carriers and allicances under one roof will give you a clear structure, smooth connections between each other flights and will be even more attractive to other carriers to fly to BRU. This will be also a recognition to the clients and PAX that they feel respected and that they can fly from a well organized airport

The Terminal of the future will be also the airport of the future.

I’m sorry but 90% of what you’ve written is just some wishful thinking b*llshit. Brussels Airport is not going to change their whole airport structure just for some aviation geeks who lile the idea of separating the alliances.
Atlantis has already shown to be in the knowing about BRU plans and ambitions. Unlike someone who shared information from someone who knows someone who works at BRU...

I didn’t meant to be rude. But truth is that half of the time people here are just passing their wishes/conspiracies as if it were reality. I made an account because I thought I had interesting information to share, but I clearly mentioned I’m not 100% sure.

jan_olieslagers
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU): Star Alliance, Oneworld and Skyteam under one roof?

Post by jan_olieslagers » 17 Aug 2019, 14:25

Fair enough, kzaant, no worries. Still, info from @Atlantis is usually quite dependable, I seem to understand this person works at the airport, possibly somewhere in the cargo business. You can't compare him/her to the "geeks" who indeed enjoy daydreaming - even if there's nothing wrong with that, really.

Kzaant
Posts: 9
Joined: 09 Aug 2019, 22:24

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU): Star Alliance, Oneworld and Skyteam under one roof?

Post by Kzaant » 17 Aug 2019, 15:08

jan_olieslagers wrote:
17 Aug 2019, 14:25
Fair enough, kzaant, no worries. Still, info from @Atlantis is usually quite dependable, I seem to understand this person works at the airport, possibly somewhere in the cargo business. You can't compare him/her to the "geeks" who indeed enjoy daydreaming - even if there's nothing wrong with that, really.
Of course there is nothing wrong with that, but when I open the forum, I want to acquire more information about aviation topics I’m interested in, not the wildest dreams of some stranger.

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Conti764
Posts: 1583
Joined: 21 Sep 2007, 23:21

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU): Star Alliance, Oneworld and Skyteam under one roof?

Post by Conti764 » 17 Aug 2019, 15:27

Kzaant wrote:
17 Aug 2019, 15:08
jan_olieslagers wrote:
17 Aug 2019, 14:25
Fair enough, kzaant, no worries. Still, info from @Atlantis is usually quite dependable, I seem to understand this person works at the airport, possibly somewhere in the cargo business. You can't compare him/her to the "geeks" who indeed enjoy daydreaming - even if there's nothing wrong with that, really.
Of course there is nothing wrong with that, but when I open the forum, I want to acquire more information about aviation topics I’m interested in, not the wildest dreams of some stranger.
Than I suggest you first take the time to get to know this board and its members to see who actually brings in real information and who is daydreaming before you correct somebody.

I know too it has always been the plan to have an under one roof-policy but I thought it was limited to Star Alliance (SN) since they do this at several airports. The option to group alliances is new to me...

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Atlantis
Posts: 4231
Joined: 12 Apr 2005, 00:00

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU): Star Alliance, Oneworld and Skyteam under one roof?

Post by Atlantis » 17 Aug 2019, 19:07

A330 wrote:
17 Aug 2019, 12:17
Nice to hear ideas on the expansion of BRU are materializing. Looking at Google images I see there are currently 6 stands west of Pier A, I guess remote stands mostly used by e.g. Ryanair. You could add another 3 further west until the Road/tunnel under the runway, to me the outer further extensions of the new pier. These stands seem wider than the current A gates, dedicated for narrow-bodies. So 10 could easily fit, making it 20 narrow-body Gates for the entire new pier. Glad to hear that equals 15 wide-body Gates.
I had no idea what the plans were for Pier C as that seemed to me to be something far into the future (2030-2035). A Pier West is closer and I had been wondering how Airlines and flights would be reshuffled to make use of the additional capacity.
There are many ways but it is not so easy. Problem to me seemed that that most long haul flights (wilde body aircraft) arrive early morning and leave late morning, so a lot of capacity in Pier B is not used in the afternoon. It seemed like a nice idea to bring all OneWorld and SkyTeam Airlines together. But I think the added valse in there is smaller. Sure, the will be pax transfering from KLM to Delta, or Alitalia to Delta, or Qatar to Finnair or British Airways, British Airways to Iberia or Cathay Pacific. I'm certain these itineraries exist, but I doubt they make up a Large volume of pax. But perhaps they are a side effect of other moves.
I still think the largest added value would be to bring Star Alliance together, and more precisely SN and some of their closest partners. Again, I do not see much benefit in co-locating Thai, Turkish, Ethiopian and/or Egyptair. Most Star connections will be from/to SN, especially their Africa flights. So I would bring these together with United and Air Canada. Keeping SN's Africa flights separate at the T gates does not really change or improve anything for the transfer experience.
Interested to see how this will Work out or if anyone has suggestions.
Hi member A330,

What you currently can see at the West side from Pier A are indeed the remote stands for Ryanair, Easyjet, but also SN are using them as there is really lack of space at Pier A.

Pier A West will be almost till this tunnel under the runway. Behind that part, where you have the tunnel and some smaller technical buildings, will be a bigger part created for General Aviation.

Pier C is for the moment not needed as this will be the last one to be build. First is the case to optimize Pier A and B. That's why the timeschedule is between 2030 and 2035.

Don't forget that in those 20 years, till 2040, BRU wants to attract 15 million more pax. You can't welcome them in the current infrastructure. You can't welcome them by not doing anything. You can't welcome them alone in Pier A and a little bit in Pier B.

Thai is important in this new part of A Pier West as they are codesharing with SN to The States and Canada. They both are arriving arround the same time.

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU): Star Alliance, Oneworld and Skyteam under one roof?

Post by Atlantis » 17 Aug 2019, 19:20

Conti764 wrote:
17 Aug 2019, 15:27
Kzaant wrote:
17 Aug 2019, 15:08
jan_olieslagers wrote:
17 Aug 2019, 14:25
Fair enough, kzaant, no worries. Still, info from @Atlantis is usually quite dependable, I seem to understand this person works at the airport, possibly somewhere in the cargo business. You can't compare him/her to the "geeks" who indeed enjoy daydreaming - even if there's nothing wrong with that, really.
Of course there is nothing wrong with that, but when I open the forum, I want to acquire more information about aviation topics I’m interested in, not the wildest dreams of some stranger.
Than I suggest you first take the time to get to know this board and its members to see who actually brings in real information and who is daydreaming before you correct somebody.

I know too it has always been the plan to have an under one roof-policy but I thought it was limited to Star Alliance (SN) since they do this at several airports. The option to group alliances is new to me...
Hi Conti764,

If you bring Star Alliance under one roof, than it has consequences for the other airlines and for the Pier where you want to do it.

As you also know, Pier B is really empty during afternoon and evening bcs the balance is more at Pier A.
Star is the main part where a lot of clients/customers are coming from but the other alliances are also very important. OneWorld is a very important one too with a huge potential. So from those two other alliances and carriers without alliances we have to attract also a lot of clients. Those 15 million pax will not come only from Star. So that's why it is important to give OneWorld and Skyteam also the needed space and Concours.

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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU): Star Alliance, Oneworld and Skyteam under one roof?

Post by Jetter » 17 Aug 2019, 20:28

Conti764 wrote:
16 Aug 2019, 21:49
Jetter wrote:
16 Aug 2019, 18:57
Atlantis wrote:
16 Aug 2019, 09:45


An airport HAS to care of the airlines and the alliances. Those are their clients. To give you one example: at LHR you also have the alliances under one roof and this to make the journey of the pax more easier and the connecting time shorter. This makes LHR also more attractive even it is the busiest airport in Europe. A huge majority is travelling via LHR not always bcs they have to be in the UK but bcs they over you the wide range of destinations. This ambition is also what needs to be here. Not like the Belgian mentality of thinking that pax and airlines will come by themself, no you have to do something...
Passengers are clients of airports too, they pay the tax and spend their money at the airport. In my opinion first priority should be their experience by limiting passport/security checks to the minimum needed, thus separating distinct passenger flows: Schengen/non-Schengen, sterile/non-sterile. In example someone arriving from the USA transferring onto another flight should never have to go through security and someone arriving from and going to an EU country also shouldn’t have to show his passport. After that is achieved it’s good to look at the logical location of alliances. But to do that might be very complicated with the current infrastructure. AFAIK only AMS has this currently, and even there only the new pier will allow for all type of passengers at all gates.
At BRU people transfering from select countries currently already undergo less strict passportchecks and no additional security than people from other countries. Directly out of my head: all shengen countries + USA and Canada...

Ever since its excistence shengen pax have different passages from non-shengen pax at bordercontrol.
It definitely happens and better than many other EU airports. But afaik there are still transfers where a unnecessary check happens because of limitations of the airport design, i.e. when arriving from the US you have to clear security while there is no legal or practical reason for this other than the layout of the airport. Understandable because the airport wasn’t build with 3 distinct transfer passenger flows in mind, but grouping alliances is likely to make unnecessary checks happen more often rather than less.

Priority should be with having no more checks than needed and eliminating buss transfers imo. AMS manages to do this being almost 3 times bigger so it should be possible (at the detriment of walking distances but that is still preferable imo).

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU): Star Alliance, Oneworld and Skyteam under one roof?

Post by Conti764 » 17 Aug 2019, 22:48

Jetter wrote:
17 Aug 2019, 20:28
It definitely happens and better than many other EU airports. But afaik there are still transfers where a unnecessary check happens because of limitations of the airport design, i.e. when arriving from the US you have to clear security while there is no legal or practical reason for this other than the layout of the airport. Understandable because the airport wasn’t build with 3 distinct transfer passenger flows in mind, but grouping alliances is likely to make unnecessary checks happen more often rather than less.

Priority should be with having no more checks than needed and eliminating buss transfers imo. AMS manages to do this being almost 3 times bigger so it should be possible (at the detriment of walking distances but that is still preferable imo).
US passengers, just like Canadian pax and shengen citizens transfering at BRU pass via a separate border control (police) on the same level of the central security check in the Connector. There are four border boxes to cater for those passengers while other passengers going from B to A have to pass via another passport control on the arrivals level. Now it could be those US, Canada or Euro passengers have to pass through security anyways but I fail to see the added value of a seperate border control for them when they have to undergo the same security check as people from other countries… I'll have a look at it the next time I'm at BRU ;)

Bus transfers in theory will no longer be necessary if you have Star Alliance at A-pier and the others at B-pier, unless you're making a non-Shengen transfer into another alliance. The only bus transfer today is between the B-pier and the T-zone.

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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU): Star Alliance, Oneworld and Skyteam under one roof?

Post by Jetter » 18 Aug 2019, 11:29

Conti764 wrote:
17 Aug 2019, 22:48
Now it could be those US, Canada or Euro passengers have to pass through security anyways but I fail to see the added value of a seperate border control for them when they have to undergo the same security check as people from other countries.
Passengers from the EU, VS and Canada don’t need to go through any security check as they’ve already been properly checked at their airport of departure. Most EU airports still do it anyway though. The value of skipping this check for the passenger is less time needed for the transfer and less hassle, i.e. having to throw away bottles bought at the departure airport. The value for the airport is less staff is needed.
Bus transfers in theory will no longer be necessary if you have Star Alliance at A-pier and the others at B-pier, unless you're making a non-Shengen transfer into another alliance. The only bus transfer today is between the B-pier and the T-zone.
That makes sense and a bit stupid I didn’t realize.:idea: I’ll blame it on never transferring at BRU myself. :)

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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU): Star Alliance, Oneworld and Skyteam under one roof?

Post by PttU » 18 Aug 2019, 23:07

Atlantis wrote:
16 Aug 2019, 09:45
PttU wrote:
16 Aug 2019, 00:06
Why would an airport care about the alliances and their placement? The only reason would be to accommodate transferring passengers and limit their connection time. But having the connecting passengers walk through your revenue-generating mall, and on the other hand keeping Shengen/non-Shengen split, would be more interesting for the airport as a company I'm afraid.
And for the other revenues: a flight is a flight, no matter the airline, and certainly no matter the alliance the airline belongs to.
An airport HAS to care of the airlines and the alliances. Those are their clients. To give you one example: at LHR you also have the alliances under one roof and this to make the journey of the pax more easier and the connecting time shorter. This makes LHR also more attractive even it is the busiest airport in Europe. A huge majority is travelling via LHR not always bcs they have to be in the UK but bcs they over you the wide range of destinations. This ambition is also what needs to be here. Not like the Belgian mentality of thinking that pax and airlines will come by themself, no you have to do something...
At LHR ther's no such thing as Shengen and non-Shengen passengers. If I'm correct, everybody (except for transfers) needs the same checks. So that way it's easy to group by alliance. At BRU however, a lot of traffic is intra-Shengen, which needs no (or less) passport controls, so it would be easier to group those destinations and limit the workload of the passport-checks.
Conti764 wrote:
16 Aug 2019, 21:49

At BRU people transfering from select countries currently already undergo less strict passportchecks and no additional security than people from other countries. Directly out of my head: all shengen countries + USA and Canada...

Ever since its excistence shengen pax have different passages from non-shengen pax at bordercontrol.
That's inbound, outbound there's no difference between non-Shengen and USA/Canada?

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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU): Star Alliance, Oneworld and Skyteam under one roof?

Post by sn26567 » 18 Aug 2019, 23:47

PttU wrote:
18 Aug 2019, 23:07
At LHR there's no such thing as Shengen and non-Shengen passengers. If I'm correct, everybody (except for transfers) needs the same checks. So that way it's easy to group by alliance.
Indeed: the UK being out of the Schengen area, the difference is only between domestic and international passengers. That makes it quite easier.
André
ex Sabena #26567

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU): Star Alliance, Oneworld and Skyteam under one roof?

Post by Conti764 » 19 Aug 2019, 09:21

PttU wrote:
18 Aug 2019, 23:07
Atlantis wrote:
16 Aug 2019, 09:45
PttU wrote:
16 Aug 2019, 00:06
Why would an airport care about the alliances and their placement? The only reason would be to accommodate transferring passengers and limit their connection time. But having the connecting passengers walk through your revenue-generating mall, and on the other hand keeping Shengen/non-Shengen split, would be more interesting for the airport as a company I'm afraid.
And for the other revenues: a flight is a flight, no matter the airline, and certainly no matter the alliance the airline belongs to.
An airport HAS to care of the airlines and the alliances. Those are their clients. To give you one example: at LHR you also have the alliances under one roof and this to make the journey of the pax more easier and the connecting time shorter. This makes LHR also more attractive even it is the busiest airport in Europe. A huge majority is travelling via LHR not always bcs they have to be in the UK but bcs they over you the wide range of destinations. This ambition is also what needs to be here. Not like the Belgian mentality of thinking that pax and airlines will come by themself, no you have to do something...
At LHR ther's no such thing as Shengen and non-Shengen passengers. If I'm correct, everybody (except for transfers) needs the same checks. So that way it's easy to group by alliance. At BRU however, a lot of traffic is intra-Shengen, which needs no (or less) passport controls, so it would be easier to group those destinations and limit the workload of the passport-checks.
Conti764 wrote:
16 Aug 2019, 21:49

At BRU people transfering from select countries currently already undergo less strict passportchecks and no additional security than people from other countries. Directly out of my head: all shengen countries + USA and Canada...

Ever since its excistence shengen pax have different passages from non-shengen pax at bordercontrol.
That's inbound, outbound there's no difference between non-Shengen and USA/Canada?
Nope, outbound originating pax have to undergo the same checks without exception. It's only logical, (inbound) transfer pax you can decide whether the airport of origin is 'trustworthy enough' to have those passengers skip an additional security check.

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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU): Star Alliance, Oneworld and Skyteam under one roof?

Post by Stij » 19 Aug 2019, 09:57

Not being a professional...

Is it correct there are 4 types of passengers

- Unchecked departing passengers
- Security checked departing passengers and passengers coming from Schengen flights.
- Security and border checked departing passengers
- Arriving passengers from non-Schengen flights.

Is it correct that when transferring from

- Schengen to Schengen there are no checks (but your ID card when boarding).
- Non-Schengen to Non-Schengen just a security check (and your ID card when boarding).
- Schengen to Non-Schengen just the border control
- Non-Schengen to Schengen both security and border control

Kind regards,

Stij

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU): Star Alliance, Oneworld and Skyteam under one roof?

Post by Conti764 » 19 Aug 2019, 12:40

Stij wrote:
19 Aug 2019, 09:57
Not being a professional...

Is it correct there are 4 types of passengers

- Unchecked departing passengers
- Security checked departing passengers and passengers coming from Schengen flights.
- Security and border checked departing passengers
- Arriving passengers from non-Schengen flights.

Is it correct that when transferring from

- Schengen to Schengen there are no checks (but your ID card when boarding).
- Non-Schengen to Non-Schengen just a security check (and your ID card when boarding).
- Schengen to Non-Schengen just the border control
- Non-Schengen to Schengen both security and border control

Kind regards,

Stij
Pax originating at BRU intrashengen: ID-check + security.
Pax originating at BRU extrashengen: Passportcontrol + security.
Pax A to B: border control.
Pax B to A (shengen citizens, US, Canada): border control.
Pax B to A (all others): security + border control.

JOVAN
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU): Star Alliance, Oneworld and Skyteam under one roof?

Post by JOVAN » 19 Aug 2019, 21:04

Conti764 wrote:
19 Aug 2019, 12:40
Stij wrote:
19 Aug 2019, 09:57
Not being a professional...

Is it correct there are 4 types of passengers

- Unchecked departing passengers
- Security checked departing passengers and passengers coming from Schengen flights.
- Security and border checked departing passengers
- Arriving passengers from non-Schengen flights.

Is it correct that when transferring from

- Schengen to Schengen there are no checks (but your ID card when boarding).
- Non-Schengen to Non-Schengen just a security check (and your ID card when boarding).
- Schengen to Non-Schengen just the border control
- Non-Schengen to Schengen both security and border control

Kind regards,

Stij
Pax originating at BRU intrashengen: ID-check + security.
Pax originating at BRU extrashengen: Passportcontrol + security.
Pax A to B: border control.
Pax B to A (shengen citizens, US, Canada): border control.
Pax B to A (all others): security + border control.
What is the difference between passport control and border control?
Last edited by sn26567 on 19 Aug 2019, 22:27, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Corrected BBCode

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