Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - Impact on Boeing 737 MAX

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Conti764
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by Conti764 »

ZavCity wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 08:39
Hi
I agree completely with president Trump's tweet..allthough he surprises me..Normally its "America first"..On th other hand, the reaction of 737MAX (nick name says it all!)seems not neutral at all...The FAA is playing high with their current attitude..Remember the 787 problems..They grounded all planes..The best tis to do the same, people are afraid worldwide and I know, most are "simple" people as I am and do know nothing about this plane..but perception ....
gtz
paul
How can you agree with him…? Maybe we should return to manual flying on turboprops? We (as people) have always gone forward with new inventions to make things easier. What would you prefer? A pilot manually flying a plane for a number of hours risking fatigue or a pilot supervising a flight on automated pilot, being there when things go awry?

I am convinced that the 737MAX is a good plane, and all will be fine once Boeing sorted things out and implements a solution. And in a few years we'll be all flying this plane without fear or reservation. The biggest downside of aviation is that a calamity always results in a (heave) loss of life.

Maye Boeing would have been better off if they designed the 737NG replacement from zero, but they didn't and now it's up to them to resolve these issues.

Inquirer
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by Inquirer »

There's a diagram online which compare the flight profiles of both 737max crashes against each other: they look frightingly similar with multiple oscilating very abupt rate changes which suggest both planes were tossed up and down for several minutes before they plunged to the ground.
Now, that does not mean the cause is the same of course, but the effects certainly are very similar.
Sadly, I can't find the graph back, but having seen it, I'm all for the grounding: the similarities are just to striking to take any further risks!
If anuone can find it for me, please be free to add the link: its a very meaningful piece of information.

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Conti764
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by Conti764 »

Stij wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 09:12
I'm not a pilot... but if 350 new planes fly around and 2 crash in similar circumstances within half a year… statistically you have a problem… and you ground the fleet…

Cheers,

Stij
Absolutely. But Trump is just being Trump, sharing his opinion on something he doesn't know a thing about.

Stij
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by Stij »

Conti764 wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 10:23
Maye Boeing would have been better off if they designed the 737NG replacement from zero, but they didn't and now it's up to them to resolve these issues.
I gues the MAX series will be the last 737...

Cheers,

Stij

Passenger
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by Passenger »

Conti764 wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 10:27
Stij wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 09:12
I'm not a pilot... but if 350 new planes fly around and 2 crash in similar circumstances within half a year… statistically you have a problem… and you ground the fleet…
Cheers,
Stij
Absolutely. But Trump is just being Trump, sharing his opinion on something he doesn't know a thing about.
Trump owns a Boeing 757. So he surely knows a bit more about aircraft then "not a thing".

flightlover
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by flightlover »

Passenger wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 10:50
Conti764 wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 10:27
Stij wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 09:12
I'm not a pilot... but if 350 new planes fly around and 2 crash in similar circumstances within half a year… statistically you have a problem… and you ground the fleet…
Cheers,
Stij
Absolutely. But Trump is just being Trump, sharing his opinion on something he doesn't know a thing about.
Trump owns a Boeing 757. So he surely knows a bit more about aircraft then "not a thing".
Owning one and knowing anything about them is not the same. Otherwise people would also know what the warning lights in a car mean.

ZavCity
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by ZavCity »

Hi
At one time he ran an airline called "Trump shuttle "with B727-(100/200 series)
gtz
paul

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luchtzak
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by luchtzak »

Stij wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 10:48
Conti764 wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 10:23
Maye Boeing would have been better off if they designed the 737NG replacement from zero, but they didn't and now it's up to them to resolve these issues.
I gues the MAX series will be the last 737...
Guess not, still constructing Boeing 737 MAX 200 etc...

The concept and the design of the 737 has been proven to be successful ...

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lumumba
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by lumumba »

luchtzak wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 11:35
Stij wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 10:48
Conti764 wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 10:23
Maye Boeing would have been better off if they designed the 737NG replacement from zero, but they didn't and now it's up to them to resolve these issues.
I gues the MAX series will be the last 737...
Guess not, still constructing Boeing 737 MAX 200 etc...

The concept and the design of the 737 has been proven to be successful ...
knowing that oil will be very rare in 30 or 40 years it's sur,like electric cars planes of the near future will be very different.
So we can suppose that this will be the last programme's flying on Jet1 engines.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

etopsflyers
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by etopsflyers »

737MAX wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 06:57
etopsflyers wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 02:20
For once I agree with President Trump!
Probably because you know nothing about flying.
Or for what reasons pilots sit in a cockpit.

Your previous post about the MCAS says enough about your knowledge of the matter. And I really don’t feel like explaining anything to ignorants who think they know.
I'm sure you know more than I do about flying :)
I am sure you know why pilots sit in a cockpit better than me as I wasn't the one flying anything from C182 to the A321 over 3 different continents as a commercial pilot since 2013 :)
You are very right 737MAX!! I am ignorant and don't know about the 737MAX features only experts like YOU know why a brand new aircraft crashes few minutes after departure and only experts like YOU know how to react to flight control problems as a crew, so as the world grounds the 737MAX over safety issues, only knowledgeable people like YOU can continue to fly her safely.
On the other hand Ignorants like me will pass on that as we have no idea about aviation safety and "why pilots sit in the cockpit".
Etops Flyers

etopsflyers
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by etopsflyers »

737 MAX What you don't get is, I never said you can replace pilots by a computer, I said Airbus builds planes and says "use as much automation as possible" when flying the airplane meaning you can trust your plane, I don't know about other Boeing planes but, should not be very different than airbus.
On approach if you have any flap setting selected on auto flight and need to go missed you just push the thrust levers and see what your airbus does for you,no need to think about an unexpected nose down attitude during climb out, no need for any specific unusual situation training for exemple.
This is how automation should be used.
Now on the MAX side, they give you a system supposed to prevent you from stalling but can pitch the plane down to a crash anytime.
So what I was pointing out is, Boeing made a safety system which pilots can NOT trust?!
I never said something like computers can take over, no need for pilots etc.
By the way... If your airplane doesn't behave, no training will save you.

Etops

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Conti764
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by Conti764 »

Passenger wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 10:50
Conti764 wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 10:27
Stij wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 09:12
I'm not a pilot... but if 350 new planes fly around and 2 crash in similar circumstances within half a year… statistically you have a problem… and you ground the fleet…
Cheers,
Stij
Absolutely. But Trump is just being Trump, sharing his opinion on something he doesn't know a thing about.
Trump owns a Boeing 757. So he surely knows a bit more about aircraft then "not a thing".
Does he fly it himself? :roll:

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Conti764
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by Conti764 »

737MAX wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 11:21
Passenger wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 10:50

Trump owns a Boeing 757. So he surely knows a bit more about aircraft then "not a thing".
Just like FlightSimmers, probably... :roll:
Years ago, I even landed a 747... ;)

Poiu
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by Poiu »

etopsflyers wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 13:12
737 MAX What you don't get is, I never said you can replace pilots by a computer, I said Airbus builds planes and says "use as much automation as possible" when flying the airplane meaning you can trust your plane, I don't know about other Boeing planes but, should not be very different than airbus.
On approach if you have any flap setting selected on auto flight and need to go missed you just push the thrust levers and see what your airbus does for you,no need to think about an unexpected nose down attitude during climb out, no need for any specific unusual situation training for exemple.
This is how automation should be used.
You pretend being an Airbus pilot and clearly never heard about OEB48, a special procedure for Airbus because erratic behaviour of the automatics led to some very very narrow escapes.

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luchtzak
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by luchtzak »

Canada has banned commercial Boeing #737Max flights in Canadian airspace. An exception is made for fights already in the air, enroute to/from or within Canada. Ferry/positioning (no passenger) flights also allowed.

etopsflyers
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by etopsflyers »

Poiu wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 16:57
etopsflyers wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 13:12
737 MAX What you don't get is, I never said you can replace pilots by a computer, I said Airbus builds planes and says "use as much automation as possible" when flying the airplane meaning you can trust your plane, I don't know about other Boeing planes but, should not be very different than airbus.
On approach if you have any flap setting selected on auto flight and need to go missed you just push the thrust levers and see what your airbus does for you,no need to think about an unexpected nose down attitude during climb out, no need for any specific unusual situation training for exemple.
This is how automation should be used.
You pretend being an Airbus pilot and clearly never heard about OEB48, a special procedure for Airbus because erratic behaviour of the automatics led to some very very narrow escapes.
I still find it amazing how people instead of accepting the 737MAX problems try and bully the 320 which has been the state of the art fly by wire airplane for more than 30 years now.
Infact it led to narrow escapes but not two crashes within few month interval at the start of its life.
We should compare early A320's to 737NG's or even the Classics.
Automation at boeing back then was...Let me think...Steam gauges on the 737CL and radio altimeter problems causing once again TK1951.
I recall flight control problems as well on early 737s going into spins and crashing on final,low altitude again...
Don't get me wrong, I love the 737 however, the A320 was a step ahead speaking of automation.
Myself a fake and you a real airbus man we both know very well that the A320 has changed drastically over the years since the Air France 296 crash.
The LH 321 causing the oeb is very different from new A320s and because you like teaching I would love to hear from you about them.
The MAX is a new born airplane with only a few hundred produced, has a new system and it seems to fail at low altitude contrary to the A320 which has been produced at more than 8000 which is not cool is it?
I was very wrong comparing the normal procedures of the airbus with the MAX, this is true.
But lets be clear the following procedure is easier than fighting a MAX on departure at low altitude.
Altitude = Time, no time is less options.
55462878_10210912883938115_8221781583208644608_n.jpg
My conclusion; the MAX has serious problems and the whole world understands this.
I find it sad how people try to bully online when someone shares their toughts.
Same technique everytime, "you pretand to be, you don't know anything about flying..."
Please people!!! I do not pretend to be a pilot, very fortunately I am one :) or should I consider both my FAA and EASA licenses and say I am pilot twice ;) ).
Fly safe everyone.

Etops Flyers

ezis_bis
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by ezis_bis »

I found this PBS (US) interview rather interesting, especially the remark about the symbiotic FAA-Boeing relationship;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80JPdRWjadI

Themax
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by Themax »

etopsflyers wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 19:32
Image
I don't know the airbus at all, but from looking at that picture, I fail to see any difference with the Max. An automatic system can and will probably fail at some time (it is still made my humans who are far from perfect), so when it does, switch it off. I fail to see how that makes the Max any more dangerous than any other modern airliner flying in the world right now ?
Still grounding the airplane is probably a good idea until more information comes out of the black boxes.

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by sn26567 »

ezis_bis wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 20:04
I found this PBS (US) interview rather interesting, especially the remark about the symbiotic FAA-Boeing relationship;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80JPdRWjadI
Jon Ostrowern a renowned aviation writer, said today that between FAA and Boeing there is a revolving door. Boeing even has the right to certify some parts and procedures itself, without FAA involvement.

Well now, President Trump himself called the end of the recreation and grounded the 737 MAX in the U.S. Common sense prevailed!

If there are recurrent problems with an aircraft, which attitude do you prefer: "We know, but until we find the cause, let's continue flying" or "We know, and until we know the cause, stop flying" ?
André
ex Sabena #26567

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sn26567
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by sn26567 »

Trump grounds Boeing Max planes

President Donald Trump says his administration is grounding Boeing 737 Max planes based on new information about the crash of an Ethiopian Air Boeing 737 Max 8 aircraft.

Trump said from the White House on Wednesday that planes currently in the air would be ordered to land at their destination and remain grounded, and that airlines and pilots had been notified of the decision.

Source: CNN

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/faa- ... in-the-us/
André
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