Brussels Airlines in 2019

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RoMax
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by RoMax »

Conti764 wrote: 22 Jan 2019, 23:27 First of all I am wondering how SN can improve its figures when they are dragged down with EW's horrific performance? It's not SN's figures that matter, but EW's.
SN is and will remain a seperate entity, both legally and operationally. Totally regardless of the consolidated public Eurowings Group figures, SN is judged by its board by its own performance and that can be very clearly differentiated from one another. And if SN is suffering from consequences of an EW integration, that will be cristal clear. Besides, one needs to know why EW's performance was horrific in 2018 and where exactly in the business the problems where, it's not quite as easy as assuming the EW project is not 'working'.

One a sidenote ref. UA. They just moved their Belgian offices to b.house (in Germany they are also located in the LH headquarters in FRA).

Jetter
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Jetter »

Conti764 wrote: 22 Jan 2019, 23:31
Jetter wrote: 22 Jan 2019, 17:05
Ansett wrote: 22 Jan 2019, 16:54I agree. CS will only allow SN to fly long haul to Western and Central Africa and will want us to fly thru FRA, MUC, or Zurich to, for instance, fly to North America (but not me).
You forget about the transatlantic JV LH has with UA. If a passenger flies on UA from BRU they make the same amount of money as on SN. I think LH wants UA to do most flying from BRU and in return they can fly more to the US from their own hubs.
I don't see much activity at UA to support this theory. Since UA merged with CO, nothing has happened except for some equipment changes on several routes. Ever since 2009 UA has only been flying daily to EWR, ORD and IAD. No second flight to EWR, no flight to IAH, no flight to the West Coast,...
Not yet indeed. I meant the scenario when LH would reduce SN to an African brand. Then it would be more likely to see significant expansion of UA at BRU instead of LH assuming everyone from BRU will take other LH hubs to the US.

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CTBke
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by CTBke »

Conti764 wrote: 22 Jan 2019, 23:31
Jetter wrote: 22 Jan 2019, 17:05
Ansett wrote: 22 Jan 2019, 16:54I agree. CS will only allow SN to fly long haul to Western and Central Africa and will want us to fly thru FRA, MUC, or Zurich to, for instance, fly to North America (but not me).
You forget about the transatlantic JV LH has with UA. If a passenger flies on UA from BRU they make the same amount of money as on SN. I think LH wants UA to do most flying from BRU and in return they can fly more to the US from their own hubs.
I don't see much activity at UA to support this theory. Since UA merged with CO, nothing has happened except for some equipment changes on several routes. Ever since 2009 UA has only been flying daily to EWR, ORD and IAD. No second flight to EWR, no flight to IAH, no flight to the West Coast,...
True but on a side note they didn't downgrade IAD and EWR during winter to the 767-300/400 like they did last year, keeping the 777 all year round on those routes is already a step in the right direction, although a 2nd flight to EWR could be reconsidered now.
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luchtzak
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

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Linty
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Linty »

The sixth Belgian icon should be something with beer...

brabel
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by brabel »

Linty wrote: 23 Jan 2019, 15:36 The sixth Belgian icon should be something with beer...
I don't get why a new Belgian icon if the name's gonna change into Eurowings...

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by lumumba »

It will be a Belgian icon on a Eurowing plane....to start the name change smoothly....
Just guessing.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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travellover
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by travellover »

On another aviation discussion thread about Austrian aviation news, the future of ''Austrian'' is regularely at issue. Name change too. I read by example a mention to ''Eurowings Austrian''. And that it will not be easy to skip ''Austrian'' name because the airline is very respected in that country.
Eurowings Belgium could be a good compromise.
Name change for short and middle haul is an (unavoidable) thing, no mention about a livery change, nevertheless (until now😗). Objectively, EW's colour scheme is dull. SN is better (omho).

Happy New year 2019 !
Cheers

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by sn26567 »

Linty wrote: 23 Jan 2019, 15:36 The sixth Belgian icon should be something with beer...
It might also have to do with Art Nouveau (which lost the last final against the Smurfs).
André
ex Sabena #26567

Victorblaise
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Victorblaise »

What will happen to the crew? Will the uniform change? Will the crew only work shorthaul or only long haul? There’s now something like mixed crew, will this not exist anymore? I’m kind of scared tbh..

nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by nordikcam »

Victorblaise wrote: 24 Jan 2019, 18:10 What will happen to the crew? Will the uniform change? Will the crew only work shorthaul or only long haul? There’s now something like mixed crew, will this not exist anymore? I’m kind of scared tbh..
A matter of taste but as far as I'm concerned the Eurowings crew uniform is the most vulgar and ugly I've ever seen in my life as a passenger in every corner of the world !

Victorblaise
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Victorblaise »

nordikcam wrote: 24 Jan 2019, 18:46
Victorblaise wrote: 24 Jan 2019, 18:10 What will happen to the crew? Will the uniform change? Will the crew only work shorthaul or only long haul? There’s now something like mixed crew, will this not exist anymore? I’m kind of scared tbh..
A matter of taste but as far as I'm concerned the Eurowings crew uniform is the most vulgar and ugly I've ever seen in my life as a passenger in every corner of the world !
Thank you! Indeed, I really dislike it myself. And I’m joining SN as a CCM in March, I really hope I won’t need to put on this uniform.. my poor female colleagues..

sterling
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by sterling »

As I suspected long time ago, Carsten Spohr' pet project must succeed and he will sacrifice SN to show better results and reap the bonusses for his promises to the Board of Directors concerning EW performance.
One of the way to shore up EW performance is to prevent SN to publish the passenger numbers, as the contrast (or gap) would be very visible.

The Belgian board is basically symbolic and all carefully chosen to be yes-men and yes-women.
Remember, CS is very German-biased and has some sort of a disrespect for everybody who is not German speaking, hence his different treatment for OS and LX.

The strategy to transfer "2nd" hand aircraft to SN is almost like a deliberate act in the sense of "ok, let's show that SN is really inefficient by loading up with old (high maintenance) aircraft" and give the shiny more fuel efficient aircraft to LH/LX and to a lesser extent to OS.
Depriving SN from more long-haul flights seem to be another trick to convince the Board that it doesn't make sense to invest in SN as a separate brand.
It would accelerate the believe that SN as a network airline is not viable.

Christoph Franz (his predecessor) was a different person and I'm almost convinced it would have gone different if the board has elected a different Lufthansa CEO than CS.

Again, I still believe that we would have been better off with British Airways (IAG) and especially for Brussels Airport.

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by JustPlanes »

I also want to say that I enjoyed reading the above article or editorial.... all very true...
I just wonder if the people who gave Brussels Airlines away to Lufthansa had not learned anything from the Sabena/Swissair fiasco! I mean when you give/sell 100% of Brussels Airlines to Lufthansa doesn't that mean that Lufthansa can now do exactly what it wants with Brussels Airlines?

And trust me as a Belgian and former employee of Sabena I would love nothing more than for Brussels Airlines to keep its name and grow.... but 100% is 100%... if it was so important to Brussels Airlines to keep its name it should have made some major agreements with a US, South America, Asian airlines and build their own and make it a success.

How come airlines like Ethiopian and Turkish can build fantastic fleets or brand new airplanes that fly all over the world and the airline of the center of Europe can only fly old planes to a some places... I don't get it!

Anyway hoping for the best for Brussels Airlines and mostly for the employees who no doubt must be going through a lot!

PttU
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by PttU »

JustPlanes wrote: 25 Jan 2019, 06:49 How come airlines like Ethiopian and Turkish can build fantastic fleets or brand new airplanes that fly all over the world and the airline of the center of Europe can only fly old planes to a some places... I don't get it!
Support by government, employee cost,... to keep prices low and make a nice profit and attract more customers. And maybe also not too much competition from neighbouring countries?

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travellover
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by travellover »

PttU wrote: 25 Jan 2019, 12:08
JustPlanes wrote: 25 Jan 2019, 06:49 How come airlines like Ethiopian and Turkish can build fantastic fleets or brand new airplanes that fly all over the world and the airline of the center of Europe can only fly old planes to a some places... I don't get it!
Support by government, employee cost,... to keep prices low and make a nice profit and attract more customers. And maybe also not too much competition from neighbouring countries?
No monitoring or state aid in the UE, nor in Belgium, nor for SN.
The history of (SN) Brussels Airlines dates back to 2002 when mother company SN Airholding was created by a group of about 40 investors.
In Ethiopia or Turkey, different story, there is a massive financial support by the government to their flag carriers, reaching success.
These countries not being in the UE, ET and TK are not submitted to the EU's rules on competition that are designed to ensure fair and equal conditions for businesses.
Cheers

convair
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by convair »

I totally agree with the posts above and André's article re SN and EW.
I just want to add that the Star Alliance partners won't be too happy about the changes either imho: will the UA Chicago flight codeshare with SN or EW or both? SN for the pax from Dakar and EW for the pax from Milan?
Why not after all? But it will add to pax confusion. :?
And on the SN Toronto flight, codeshare with EW for the Hanover pax or will the EW feed flight codeshare with SN? :? Will SN be allowed to sell the whole route ticket? :?
The old say: why make it simple when it can be complicated? ;)

As I said many months ago, I have no objection against EW taking over the former TC routes and even a few SN holidays destination but to have the whole european network go to EW is sheer stupidity imho.

PttU
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by PttU »

convair wrote: 25 Jan 2019, 15:08 I totally agree with the posts above and André's article re SN and EW.
I just want to add that the Star Alliance partners won't be too happy about the changes either imho: will the UA Chicago flight codeshare with SN or EW or both? SN for the pax from Dakar and EW for the pax from Milan?
Why not after all? But it will add to pax confusion. :?
And on the SN Toronto flight, codeshare with EW for the Hanover pax or will the EW feed flight codeshare with SN? :? Will SN be allowed to sell the whole route ticket? :?
The old say: why make it simple when it can be complicated? ;)

As I said many months ago, I have no objection against EW taking over the former TC routes and even a few SN holidays destination but to have the whole european network go to EW is sheer stupidity imho.
Last year we made a trip DUS-FRA-SFO and BOS-MUC-DUS. We booked through the Lufthansa-site, and I honestly can't remember if the DUS-FRA and MUC-DUS flights were "Lufthansa operated by Eurowings" or "Eurowings operated by Lufthansa" or "Lufthansa operated by Lufthansa Cityline" or whatever. The experience was good, and the experience on the long haul was the most important one as we spent most time on that flight. (And the experience in the airports was important too).
When I check my booking info again, I can see that I had a Lufthansa Booking Code and a Germanwings/Eurowings Booking code, and our original schedule was DUS-CDG-SFO, with the DUS-CDG operated by Eurowings (and an EW-flight number), and CDG-SFO with an LH-flightnumber operated by United Airlines. This was changed to the route over FRA because of a change in flight time which would make the connection at CDG too tight.
So we changed from EW-UA to LH-LH, without hassle, and that's the most important: being because of an alliance, or because of ownership or brand name doesn't matter.

Average Joe doesn't care who operates his flight, as long as comfort and timing are okay, and a journey with (multiple) stopovers can be booked in one time.

Average Joe probably doesn't even know who is in an alliance with who and what the letters in a flight number mean.

When the plane arrives at the gate, it doesn't matter to Average Joe whether it's a eurowings c/s, or it has the Smurfs painted on it.

And in the case of a strike or delay or other troubles leading to cancellations and rebookings, this is always a bad experience, no matter what company. And in most of the above examples and circumstances, I even think a "diverse" alliance or group (like Lufthansa) has more options than one single big airline like TK or ET.

convair
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by convair »

PttU wrote: 25 Jan 2019, 18:04 Average Joe doesn't care who operates his flight, as long as comfort and timing are okay, and a journey with (multiple) stopovers can be booked in one time.
Average Joe probably doesn't even know who is in an alliance with who and what the letters in a flight number mean.
When the plane arrives at the gate, it doesn't matter to Average Joe whether it's a eurowings c/s, or it has the Smurfs painted on it.

And in the case of a strike or delay or other troubles leading to cancellations and rebookings, this is always a bad experience, no matter what company. And in most of the above examples and circumstances, I even think a "diverse" alliance or group (like Lufthansa) has more options than one single big airline like TK or ET.
I doubt you can be considered as Average Joe. For her/him, fewer players mean less potential confusion.

Of course a group (like LH) has more options, but it's due to being bigger than LH and TK, and provided these options are made available to the traveler which apparently is not the case, as illustrated by André's story (EW not offering him a seat on an SN flight after cancellation of his EW flight).

You can make a case for EW taking over all SN's european flights, but why not start with the LH network then: today, between DUS and MUC (german domestic route!), there were several LH flights AND a couple of EW flights; what's the point? And they are apparently planning to do the same between TXL and FRA!
Also from DUS, 3 EW flights to ZRU (yes Zurich, the sacred hub of Swiss of all places!!!) in competition with a Swiss flight! If that's not inconsistency, I don't know what is. :)

Flyuli
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Flyuli »

OO-SSA is flying for Swiss today, now to Dublin. (GVA-DUB LX 410)

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